[noemon]

A clandestine operation staged by the Greek National Intelligence Service (EYP) and the Hellenic Police (ELAS) in August, involving two undocumented migrants who worked as undercover agents, was what led authorities to the conclusion that members of four nongovernmental organizations active on the island of Lesvos engaged in people smuggling, Kathimerini understands.

According to classified documents seen by Kathimerini, a total of 35 members of the four NGOs facilitated the movement of illegal immigrants and refugees from Turkey to Lesvos using “illegal methods and procedures.”

They are nationals of Germany, France, Switzerland, Austria, Norway and Bulgaria, and two of the NGOs under investigation are based in Berlin, according to the documents.

The operation code-named Alcmene – after the mother of the mythological hero Hercules – was completed on August 12 at the height of the Greek-Turkish standoff as warships from both countries patrolled the eastern Aegean.

It essentially entailed “directed smuggling” overseen by Greek authorities, with the two migrants recruited by EYP arriving in Izmir, Turkey, and then boarding a boat with undocumented migrants destined for Lesvos.

The two agent migrants subsequently detailed what happened during the transfer, shedding light on how the NGOs allegedly operate. The conclusions from the descriptions and information provided by the two migrants will be evaluated in a criminal investigation launched by a Greek prosecutor.

The classified ELAS documents revealed that the four NGOs make use of the AlarmPhone application – an emergency telephone number used by refugees and migrants crossing the sea from the coast of Turkey to the Greek islands. The app is also used by migrants traveling from Libya to Malta and Italy.

The migrants call the number and inform the NGOs about their exact location. The NGO volunteers then undertake to contact the Hellenic Coast Guard and ask its staff to collect the boat with the migrants. If there is no immediate response, they publish the issue on social networks as a form of pressure. This app is not secret but accessible through the website http://www.alarmphone.org and Twitter.

The probe was launched in May and was initially into six NGOs, though no evidence was found incriminating two of the groups so the investigation was narrowed down to the four.

Kathimerini

[Dimetrodon]

Defending human rights by assisting an authoritarian Turkish regime!

[ckaihatsu]

Defending human rights by assisting an authoritarian Turkish regime!

This isn't accurate -- the migrants wish to *leave* Turkey, and sometimes they're able to get assistance from the Hellenic Coast Guard, as the article states.

[noemon]

This isn't accurate -- the migrants wish to *leave* Turkey, and sometimes they're able to get assistance from the Hellenic Coast Guard, as the article states.

The article does not state that the Hellenic Coast Guard 'helps migrants to leave Turkey', it states that the Hellenic Security Services have uncovered Berlin-based NGO's helping migrants to leave Turkey.

[ckaihatsu]

This isn't accurate -- the migrants wish to *leave* Turkey, and sometimes they're able to get assistance from the Hellenic Coast Guard, as the article states.

The article does not state that the Hellenic Coast Guard 'helps migrants to leave Turkey', it states that the Hellenic Security Services have uncovered Berlin-based NGO's helping migrants to leave Turkey.

Here's the relevant part:

The migrants call the number and inform the NGOs about their exact location. The NGO volunteers then undertake to contact the Hellenic Coast Guard and ask its staff to collect the boat with the migrants.

I can rephrase to say:

The migrants wish to leave Turkey, and sometimes they *receive* assistance from the Hellenic Coast Guard, as the article states.


I think the emphasis here should be about people needing to relocate, across national borders, as capital does every minute of the day.

[noemon]

I can rephrase to say:

The migrants wish to leave Turkey, and sometimes they *receive* assistance from the Hellenic Coast Guard, as the article states.

Once again that is false. The article does not claim or even imply any such thing. The Hellenic Coastguard does not assist any migrant to leave Turkey.

The Hellenic Coastguard rescues boats(migrant or otherwise) inside its territorial waters as all coastguards are tasked to do, even more so when NGO's report the salvage and monitor, which means that if the coastguard does not rescue the boat in its waters, then it will be accused for negligence and human rights violations.

[Istanbuller]

Refugees want to move to Western Europe. Greece can solve its refugee problem with just letting them pass through their territory. It is going to be West's problem. Let them move, Greeks.

[noemon]

Refugees want to move to Western Europe. Greece can solve its refugee problem with just letting them pass through their territory. It is going to be West's problem. Let them move, Greeks.

They want to move so bad, they have to be kicked and threatened by Turkish police.

[ckaihatsu]

Once again that is false. The article does not claim or even imply any such thing. The Hellenic Coastguard does not assist any migrant to leave Turkey.

The Hellenic Coastguard rescues boats(migrant or otherwise) inside its territorial waters as all coastguards are tasked to do, even more so when NGO's report the salvage and monitor, which means that if the coastguard does not rescue the boat in its waters, then it will be accused for negligence and human rights violations.

I'll suggest that this is po-TAY-to, po-TAH-to -- I'm not one to quibble.

Refugees want to move to Western Europe. Greece can solve its refugee problem with just letting them pass through their territory. It is going to be West's problem. Let them move, Greeks.

Greece has been the entranceway to Western Civilization, both historically and geographically. (grin)

[Istanbuller]

I believe Greeks feel fear because of EU's pressure on them. They fear that EU won't bail out them if they don't side with EU. But i would rethink options if i were Greece's prime minister. It is a generous offer comes from Turkey. We can get more out of the EU's box if we act together.

[noemon]

I'll suggest that this is po-TAY-to, po-TAH-to -- I'm not one to quibble.

It isn't.

Rescuing people inside your own territory =/= helping migrants leave a foreign country.

'Own territory' and 'foreign country' are not 'potatoe' 'potato'.

Rescuing and smuggling are not potatoe/potato either.

[ckaihatsu]

It isn't.

Rescuing people inside your own territory =/= helping migrants leave a foreign country.

'Own territory' and 'foreign country' are not 'potatoe' 'potato'.

Rescuing and smuggling are not potatoe/potato either.

Okay, you're definitely showing that you're more concerned with bourgeois nationalist *technicalities*, than with *people's lives*. I'll reiterate my previous point:

I think the emphasis here should be about people needing to relocate, across national borders, as capital does every minute of the day.

Also, this showed up in the news today:


At least 140 drown in refugee boat disaster off Senegal coast

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2020/1 ... h-n02.html

[Pants-of-dog]

As far as I can tell, the NGOs are not doing anything illegal. If anything, they are helping the border police by alerting them to migrants.

[noemon]

Okay, you're definitely showing that you're more concerned with bourgeois nationalist *technicalities*, than with *people's lives*. I'll reiterate my previous point:

The technicality of distinguishing between 'native land' and 'foreign territory' is more often than not essential to rescuing people's lives as is indeed in this case too. You seem to be more concerned with pressing a false allegation about the "Hellenic Coastguard helping migrants leave Turkey" than people's lives but more essentially with the fact that it was in actual fact the Hellenic Coastguard that 'uncovered the NGO's helping migrants leave Turkey'.

I would say that I am indeed very concerned about the attacks on our national borders by Turkey, with people, navy, police, army, terrorism and all its means. I am also concerned about NGO's operating without scrutiny which is the point here. Your commie lingo is not only outdated & kitsch but also hollow and pointless.

As far as I can tell, the NGOs are not doing anything illegal. If anything, they are helping the border police by alerting them to migrants.

They are establishing an eco-system that promotes & sustains human smuggling operations that are extremely dangerous for migrants and profitable for human traffickers, with the added bonus of enabling terrorists to move freely in a time that Muslim terrorists of various factions seem to be going all out against Europe with both military and terrorist means in both word & deed.

[Pants-of-dog]

What are they supposed to be charged with?

Is phoning the relevant authorities a crime?

The only way this is good for the smugglers is if the smugglers are in cahoots with the border patrol.

[noemon]

The only way this is good for the smugglers is if the smugglers are in cahoots with the border patrol.

The only way this is good for the smugglers is if the smugglers are in cahoots with the NGO's, which it has been uncovered that they are in cahoots indeed.

A criminal investigation is underway by the Hellenic Public Prosecutor.

The Hellenic Coastguard is like a punching bag, it rescues boats in its waters then it gets accused of "being in cahoots", it prevents people from crossing into its borders then "it pushes boats back".

[ckaihatsu]

The technicality of distinguishing between 'native land' and 'foreign territory' is more often than not essential to rescuing people's lives as is indeed in this case too.

Okay, I'm listening -- how so?

You seem to be more concerned with pressing a false allegation about the "Hellenic Coastguard helping migrants leave Turkey"

I wasn't alleging anything -- the Hellenic Coastguard is tasked with rescuing migrants at sea. All of my information and knowledge about the Hellenic Coastguard comes from that one article you posted.

than people's lives but more essentially with the fact that it was in actual fact the Hellenic Coastguard that 'uncovered the NGO's helping migrants leave Turkey'.

I would say that I am indeed very concerned about the attacks on our national borders by Turkey, with people, navy, police, army, terrorism and all its means. I am also concerned about NGO's operating without scrutiny which is the point here.

What do you think about POD's comment:

As far as I can tell, the NGOs are not doing anything illegal. If anything, they are helping the border police by alerting them to migrants.

---

They are establishing an eco-system that promotes & sustains human smuggling operations that are extremely dangerous for migrants and profitable for human traffickers, with the added bonus of enabling terrorists to move freely in a time that Muslim terrorists of various factions seem to be going all out against Europe with both military and terrorist means in both word & deed.

If one is concerned with human smuggling operations then one should fight to eliminate national borders so that no person is 'illegal', just as one should fight to end the War on Drugs so that there's no longer a market of barbarism over drugs.

If one is concerned about terrorists then one should fight to disallow Turkey from harboring and facilitating ISIS, etc., and the U.S. and others from facilitating the FSA.


Arms deliveries from U.S., Turkey, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, others

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Syri ... ia,_others

[noemon]

Okay, I'm listening -- how so?
I wasn't alleging anything -- the Hellenic Coastguard is tasked with rescuing migrants at sea. All of my information and knowledge about the Hellenic Coastguard comes from that one article you posted.

At sea, not 'from Turkey' as you stated twice and insisted. Because the Greek coastguard will only rescue people within the coordinates that it operates in.

What do you think about POD's comment:

How do these NGO's acquire the locations of the boats. Who are their contacts and such. That would be the substance of the investigation I assume.

If one is concerned with human smuggling operations then one should fight to eliminate national borders so that no person is 'illegal', just as one should fight to end the War on Drugs so that there's no longer a market of barbarism over drugs.

Absolutely disagree and totally uninterested to have this conversation.

If one is concerned about terrorists then one should fight to disallow Turkey from harboring and facilitating ISIS, etc., and the U.S. and others from facilitating the FSA.

Arms deliveries from U.S., Turkey, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, others

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Syri ... ia,_others

Indeed, Turkey is the primary cause for the refugees in the first place and for terrorism in both word & deed.

[ckaihatsu]

At sea, not 'from Turkey' as you stated twice and insisted. Because the Greek coastguard will only rescue people within the coordinates that it operates in.

You haven't shown any of my statements where I supposedly asserted this -- I said the *migrants* are from Turkey, and the Greek coast guard does what it's tasked to do.

How do these NGO's acquire the locations of the boats. Who are their contacts and such. That would be the substance of the investigation I assume.

---

If one is concerned with human smuggling operations then one should fight to eliminate national borders so that no person is 'illegal', just as one should fight to end the War on Drugs so that there's no longer a market of barbarism over drugs.

Absolutely disagree and totally uninterested to have this conversation.

---

Indeed, Turkey is the primary cause for the refugees in the first place and for terrorism in both word & deed.

I agree, but I think it was the U.S. bombing of *Syria* that caused the refugees in the first place, and Turkey agreed to take them in, initially.

Refugees of the Syrian Civil War are citizens and permanent residents of Syria, who have fled their country over the course of the Syrian Civil War. The pre-war population of the Syrian Arab Republic was estimated at 22 million (2017), including permanent residents.[1] Of that number, the United Nations (UN) identified 13.5 million (2016) as displaced persons, requiring humanitarian assistance. Of these, since the start of the Syrian Civil War in 2011 more than six million (2016) were internally displaced, and around five million (2016) had crossed into other countries,[2] with most seeking asylum or placed in Syrian refugee camps established in Turkey (3,614,108),[3] Lebanon (929,624),[4] Jordan (662,010),[5] Egypt (131,433),[6] and other countries.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refugees_ ... _Civil_War

[noemon]

You haven't shown any of my statements where I supposedly asserted this -- I said the *migrants* are from Turkey, and the Greek coast guard does what it's tasked to do.

I have quoted the statements in which you asserted that the "Greek coastguard provides assistance from migrants to leave Turkey", they are in this page and you alleged this in order to accuse the Greek coastguard for it instead of the NGO's who actually stand under investigation. That was the reason you replied to Random American's post.

Turkey is unapologetically weaponing migrants and the Greek coastguard & Navy are unapologetically protecting Greek borders from Turkish attacks.

I agree, but I think it was the U.S. bombing of *Syria* that caused the refugees in the first place, and Turkey agreed to take them in, initially.

The US has left Syria years now. Those waves have already arrived in Europe years ago.
Only Turkey and her ISIS allies are the uninvited operators in Syria today and for the past years.