[Pants-of-dog]

The causes of the current “crisis” are:

1, Rising transport fares, (a legacy of Pinochet)
2. Rising cost of living (a legacy of Pinochet)
3. Income inequality (a legacy of Pinochet)
4. Privatisation (a legacy of Pinochet)
5. Political corruption (a legacy of Pinochet)
6. Neoliberal policies from Pinochet's era Constitution (a legacy of Pinochet)

While the first two may arguably be caused by other factors, the last four were caused almost entirely by Pinochetistas and their love affair with neoliberalism.

For those who may not know this about Chilean culture, it s very classist. And the wealthiest classes supported Pinochet because he made them money. In many respects, they still support Pinochetistas who are in power now, and for the same reason.

[wat0n]

The causes of the current “crisis” are:

1, Rising transport fares, (a legacy of Pinochet)

Is Pinochet at fault for the reform of the transportation system in 2007?

Furthermore, the problems in that realm are not just the fares. It is also the quality of service, something you would mention if you ever used Santiago's transportation at peak hours or ever spent trying to use the even worse and unreliable system in cities other than Santiago.

2. Rising cost of living (a legacy of Pinochet)

Is Pinochet at fault for existing municipal building regulations? The largest part in the "cost of living part" is housing, which is starting to show patterns similar to those in developed countries (where it is also a rather large fraction of a family's budget).

3. Income inequality (a legacy of Pinochet)

Income inequality is at roughly the historical average since 1850:

4. Privatisation (a legacy of Pinochet)

Please elaborate and show exactly which instances of privatization have left the population worse off. Also show these were carried out before 1990.

5. Political corruption (a legacy of Pinochet)

Yeah, sure, because political parties were totally not corrupt before 1973 were they?

It's not like they were not being funded by the US, Cuba or the Soviets before the coup. Not at all

Nowadays they will be funded by private companies or by the Venezuelan Government (as the Chilean Communist Party was in 2014).

6. Neoliberal policies from Pinochet's era Constitution (a legacy of Pinochet)

Such as...? You already claimed education was not free under the Constitution. I showed this is at least misleading.

I can also show, by citing court rulings, how it is currently interpreted as far as healthcare goes.

While the first two may arguably be caused by other factors, the last four were caused almost entirely by Pinochetistas and their love affair with neoliberalism.

For those who may not know this about Chilean culture, it s very classist. And the wealthiest classes supported Pinochet because he made them money. In many respects, they still support Pinochetistas who are in power now, and for the same reason.

Is classism also Pinochet's fault?

And Piñera is hardly a Pinochetista. I bet you don't even know who those are right now (hint: They sit in the opposition).

It is not 1995 anymore. Like it or not, the Chilean right has for the most part worked hard to dissociate itself from Pinochet and, indeed, it is why we are where we are (as opposed to where could have been if it had truly decided to engage in Pinochet-era use of military force).

[wat0n]

So, we rejected this ultra woke Constitution with just under 62% of the vote. It seems it's the first time in modern history any country has rejected a Constitution proposed by a wholly elected assembly.

Note: I wrote everything below this paragraph on Tuesday, August 31st.

So, this process is now over. Thankfully, we rejected this awful proposal written by the Constitutional Convention.

Although I could write a series of fairly long posts detailing why we've rejected this text (which I think I'll do anyway, but not right now), I think it's easiest to start by the end of the process as the reasons for the rejection will be clear by just watching one of the family friendly Saturday campaign rallies by those at the farthest left end of the Chilean political spectrum.

Just be warned, this is NSFW:



This will be included in the anals of Chilean political history.

[Rugoz]

Looks like progressives were on a power trip.

[JohnRawls]

So, we rejected this ultra woke Constitution with just under 62% of the vote. It seems it's the first time in modern history any country has rejected a Constitution proposed by a wholly elected assembly.

Note: I wrote everything below this paragraph on Tuesday, August 31st.

So, this process is now over. Thankfully, we rejected this awful proposal written by the Constitutional Convention.

Although I could write a series of fairly long posts detailing why we've rejected this text (which I think I'll do anyway, but not right now), I think it's easiest to start by the end of the process as the reasons for the rejection will be clear by just watching one of the family friendly Saturday campaign rallies by those at the farthest left end of the Chilean political spectrum.

Just be warned, this is NSFW:



This will be included in the anals of Chilean political history.

Video is weird. Constitutions shouldn't be changed on a whim.

[wat0n]

Video is weird. Constitutions shouldn't be changed on a whim.

Video will in the anals of Chilean political history for a reason, @JohnRawls. I don't know if you have ever seen the Chilean flag, you may want to look for it to fully grasp what you saw.

@Rugoz yes, they got drunk and now their hangover is about to begin. But while that's a big part of the story, I don't think it's the straw that broke the camel's back.

Surveys show the "for" option was clearly ahead until early April. By then, everyone had seen the behavior of our dear Constitutional Convention and we had a fairly good idea of what type of text was going to be presented. Both were indeed extremely important, but the difference between the pre- and post- April views on the vote was that, by early April, the current leftist administration had been governing for 3 weeks already, and people did not like what they saw. We would never do, and I think we've punished the incumbents electorally once again. We've been doing so in each and every election since at least 2009 when we were pissed, and this was no exception. The for option got just over 38%, which is the same as government approval according to most surveys.

Anyway, this is probably the worst defeat of the left in Chilean history. It's worse than losing the 1891 civil war. It's worse than the 1973 coup that brought Pinochet to power. Why? Because, for this specific election, there was automatic registration and compulsory voting within Chilean territory, and 13 million out of 15 million eligible voters went out to vote (not all of which are necessarily alive or physically close enough to vote where they are registered to do so).

I spent this whole day doing election duty here in Chicago (manning booths, counting votes, it's a whole day thing and we're randomly selected - and I got kinda lucky because voting was voluntary for those of us who live abroad), so I'm tired. But I can perfectly elaborate on the text we voted against, on the power trip the left and the Convention went through and also about the first 6 months of this current administration when I'm not tired.

[JohnRawls]

Video will in the anals of Chilean political history for a reason, @JohnRawls. I don't know if you have ever seen the Chilean flag, you may want to look for it to fully grasp what you saw.

@Rugoz yes, they got drunk and now their hangover is about to begin. But while that's a big part of the story, I don't think it's the straw that broke the camel's back.

Surveys show the "for" option was clearly ahead until early April. By then, everyone had seen the behavior of our dear Constitutional Convention and we had a fairly good idea of what type of text was going to be presented. Both were indeed extremely important, but the difference between the pre- and post- April views on the vote was that, by early April, the current leftist administration had been governing for 3 weeks already, and people did not like what they saw. We would never do, and I think we've punished the incumbents electorally once again. We've been doing so in each and every election since at least 2009 when we were pissed, and this was no exception. The for option got just over 38%, which is the same as government approval according to most surveys.

Anyway, this is probably the worst defeat of the left in Chilean history. It's worse than losing the 1891 civil war. It's worse than the 1973 coup that brought Pinochet to power. Why? Because, for this specific election, there was automatic registration and compulsory voting within Chilean territory, and 13 million out of 15 million eligible voters went out to vote (not all of which are necessarily alive or physically close enough to vote where they are registered to do so).

I spent this whole day doing election duty here in Chicago (manning booths, counting votes, it's a whole day thing and we're randomly selected - and I got kinda lucky because voting was voluntary for those of us who live abroad), so I'm tired. But I can perfectly elaborate on the text we voted against, on the power trip the left and the Convention went through and also about the first 6 months of this current administration when I'm not tired.

The quality was so bad so i turned it off after I saw somebody hittinga womens ass in 10 pixel quality. I know most flags of 99% of countries since i have good picture memory so i know your flag. The only real problem that I have with is Slovenia and Slovakia flags which i can't remember who is who.

[wat0n]

The quality was so bad so i turned it off after I saw somebody hittinga womens ass in 10 pixel quality. I know most flags of 99% of countries since i have good picture memory so i know your flag. The only real problem that I have with is Slovenia and Slovakia flags which i can't remember who is who.

Guess what was coming out of her butt.

[wat0n]

By the way, what's your take on all of this @Pants-of-dog? You're the only other Chilean on the forum, and I'm guessing you didn't like what you saw last night.

I'm seeing plenty of woke Chilean millennials who seemingly didn't get the message.

[Pants-of-dog]

No one hates the average Chilean more than a rich Chilean.

[wat0n]

No one hates the average Chilean more than a rich Chilean.

While we can't know how individuals voted, lower income municipalities voted against the proposal by a larger margin than the better off ones.

So did largely indigenous municipalities.

[Pants-of-dog]

While we can't know how individuals voted, lower income municipalities voted against the proposal by a larger margin than the better off ones.

So did largely indigenous municipalities.

Sure.

[ckaihatsu]

While we can't know how individuals voted, lower income municipalities voted against the proposal by a larger margin than the better off ones.

So did largely indigenous municipalities.

(Demographics hobbyist, or feeding-the-culture-wars -- ?)

[wat0n]

(Demographics hobbyist, or feeding-the-culture-wars -- ?)

I'd say that's more like class warfare.

It was @Pants-of-dog who said rich Chileans hate the average guy. My point is that the richer municipalities were more open on average to the proposal than the poorer ones.

I also mentioned the largely indigenous municipalities because the proposal wanted to turn Chile into a plurinational state, modeled on Evo Morales' Bolivia and Rafael Correa's Ecuador. The reject option got as high as 94% in one of these.

[ckaihatsu]

I'd say that's more like class warfare.

It was @Pants-of-dog who said rich Chileans hate the average guy. My point is that the richer municipalities were more open on average to the proposal than the poorer ones.

I also mentioned the largely indigenous municipalities because the proposal wanted to turn Chile into a plurinational state, modeled on Evo Morales' Bolivia and Rafael Correa's Ecuador. The reject option got as high as 94% in one of these.

Oh, look...

The 2019–2022 Chilean protests, known in Chile as the Estallido Social (lit. social outburst),[12][13] were a series of massive demonstrations and severe riots that originated in Santiago and spread to all regions of Chile, with a greater impact in the main cities, such as Greater Valparaíso, Greater Concepción, Greater La Serena, Arica, Iquique, Antofagasta, Rancagua, Chillán, Temuco, Valdivia, Osorno, Puerto Montt and Punta Arenas, developed mainly between October 2019 and March 2020. Civil protests took place throughout Chile in response to a raise in the Santiago Metro's subway fare, a probity crisis,[A] cost of living, privatisation[18] and inequality prevalent in the country.[19][20][21][22]

The protests began in Chile's capital, Santiago, as a coordinated fare evasion campaign by secondary school students which led to spontaneous takeovers of the city's main train stations and open confrontations with the Carabineros de Chile (the national police force). On 18 October, the situation escalated as a group of people began vandalizing city's infrastructure; seizing, vandalizing, and burning down many stations of the Santiago Metro network and disabling them with extensive infrastructure damage, and for a time causing the cessation of the network in its entirety. Eighty-one stations have sustained major damage, including seventeen burned down.[23][24] On the same day, President of Chile Sebastián Piñera announced a state of emergency, authorizing the deployment of Chilean Army forces across the main regions to enforce order and prevent the destruction of public property, and invoked before the courts the Ley de Seguridad del Estado ("State Security Law") against dozens of detainees. A curfew was declared on 19 October in the Greater Santiago area.[25][26]

In the following days, protests and riots expanded to other Chilean cities, including Concepción, San Antonio and Valparaíso.[27] The state of emergency was extended to the Concepción Province, all Valparaíso Region (except Easter Island and Juan Fernández Archipelago) and the cities of Antofagasta, Coquimbo, Iquique, La Serena, Rancagua, Valdivia, Osorno, and Puerto Montt. The protests have been considered the "worst civil unrest" having occurred in Chile since the end of Augusto Pinochet's military dictatorship due to the scale of damage to public infrastructure, the number of protesters, and the measures taken by the government.[28] Widespread looting occurred at shops and businesses.

On 25 October 2019, over 1.2 million people took to the streets of Santiago to protest against social inequality, demanding President Piñera's resignation, in what was called as "The biggest march of Chile."[29][30] As of 28 December 2019, 29 people have died,[31] nearly 2,500 have been injured and 2,840 have been arrested.[30][32] Human rights organisations have received several reports of violations conducted against protesters by security forces, including eye mutilation, torture, sexual abuse and sexual assault.[33][34][35] On 28 October 2019, President Piñera changed eight ministries of his cabinet in response to the unrest, dismissing his Interior Minister Andrés Chadwick.[36][37]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019%E2%8 ... n_protests

[wat0n]

Yes, and we've to a large extent repudiated that.

Did you see the video of the closing act of the campaign by those at the farthest left in the "for" option? The one where a transgender woman literally pulls a Chilean flag out of her asshole? Her group did something similar on October 2019, right in Santiago's main street in front of the most important Catholic university in the country while the riots were ongoing.

Many of those who didn't care back then, many who were among the 78% who voted to start the process to draft a new Constitution, did care about it now and made their voices heard.

[ckaihatsu]

Yes, and we've to a large extent repudiated that.

Did you see the video of the closing act of the campaign by those at the farthest left in the "for" option? The one where a transgender woman literally pulls a Chilean flag out of her asshole? Her group did something similar on October 2019, right in Santiago's main street in front of the most important Catholic university in the country while the riots were ongoing.

Many of those who didn't care back then, many who were among the 78% who voted to start the process to draft a new Constitution, did care about it now and made their voices heard.

So -- fancy paperwork.

What about the *issues* raised in the protests:

Civil protests took place throughout Chile in response to a raise in the Santiago Metro's subway fare, a probity crisis,[A] cost of living, privatisation[18] and inequality prevalent in the country.[19][20][21][22]

[wat0n]

The proposal wouldn't have solved any of that. The current administration hasn't done much to work on those either.

[ckaihatsu]

The proposal wouldn't have solved any of that. The current administration hasn't done much to work on those either.

Yeah, well, see -- that's the perennial *problem*, with the bourgeoisie.

There's no inherent interest from them / the current administration, for *real* economic demands, against their *private* interests, so instead it's a smokescreen of more words and more paper and a *reshuffling* of words, paper, and people.

Btw:


Social Production Worldview

Spoiler: show

[ckaihatsu]

Oooop -- also:


Ideologies & Operations -- Left Centrifugalism

Spoiler: show