The Death of the British Labour Party - Page 4 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15131626
Heisenberg wrote:The simple fact is, prior to the 1960s, America was of course sympathetic to Israel. But since then, the relationship has gone far, far beyond any rational alliance.

Few if any commentators seem to have grasped the magnitude of the blow that Vietnam inflicted on American nationalism. American nationalists no longer had the confidence to fight its enemies, so American nationalism expressed itself by cheer leading others to fight Americas enemies. What a contrast Israel's glorious victory in 67 was with the war in Vietnam in the late 60s. For a while the Mujahedin became another alter ego for American nationalism. But that one sided love affair came to an end on 9/11.
#15131640
Heisenberg wrote:This didn't just happen in a vacuum. The alliance of pro-Israel lobby groups and and right wing Christian fundamentalists (think Jerry Falwell and the Moral Majority) has been relentlessly pushing the message thst Israel is the Only Democracy In The Middle East™ for the last 40 years, while there has been almost no prominent outlet presenting an alternative view. This will obviously influence public opinion on the matter.

The simple fact is, prior to the 1960s, America was of course sympathetic to Israel. But since then, the relationship has gone far, far beyond any rational alliance. I can't imagine the fallout if Britain was caught recruiting spies in the NSA, for example, but when Israel did exactly that with Jonathan Pollard in the 1980s, you actually had American politicians taking Israel's side! To pretend that relentless lobbying has had no impact on this ridiculous state of affairs is an insult to the intelligence.


You sound like those who believe Trump won in 2016 only because of the propaganda campaign on social media.

The truth is, there have also been lobbyists pushing a message against Israel just as relentlessly, as is their right to. And yet... For now, at least, the American public seems to have made its choice. American support for Israel goes deeper than simply being a matter of propaganda.
#15131651
In the American version of The Lobby documentary, in part 2, Rep Jim Moran said the Executive Director of AIPAC said "My most important accomplishment was securing the authorisation for the use of military force in Iraq." He said AIPAC "was pushing" the war "very hard" and that "the U.S. getting involved in wars in the Middle East is ultimately in Israel's interest". Moran did not support the war as AIPAC requested him to in 2002 and he was pilloried in the Washington Post by AIPAC affiliated journalists who work there and attacked for anti-semitism.


Americans should watch the entire documentary to see the power of AIPAC in the U.S., that some people pretend isn't really much of a thing. The U.K. version of the same documentary is very informative too.
#15132310
An Israeli wrote: “Sin Begets Sin:” The Fall of Jeremy Corbyn Will be Felt Around the World
Jeremy Corbyn and the Labour Party have finally succumbed to pressure from Zionist organizations in the UK in a move with enormous international ramifications.

There can be little doubt that the ousting of Jeremy Corbyn from the UK Labour Party was the result of a well-planned strategy by a coalition of Zionist organizations, which includes the state of Israel’s own Ministry of Strategic Affairs. And while Corbyn is undoubtedly not anti-semitic, nor racist in way shape, or form, he made one colossal strategic mistake. He did not fight the Zionist propaganda levied against him nor did he fight the outrageous accusations of anti-semitism that were laid upon him and so many other good hard-working anti-racist members of his Party.

The IHRA
Israel is a racist, violent state that peddles enormous amounts of sophisticated weapons to the darkest regimes on earth. It holds thousands of political prisoners, denies people water, medical care, food, and even the basic most freedoms, simply because they are Palestinian.

In order to shield the country from those who would expose that racism and violence, the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance, or IHRA, created what it calls a working definition of anti-semitism. It is a new definition that exists to protect Israel from its critics.

The question that immediately comes to mind is what was wrong with the “old” definition of anti-semitism which defined anti-semitism as racism against Jews. The answer: It was not broad enough to include Israel or Zionism. Since Israel is a major violator of international law and human rights and has been so from its inception in 1948, it needed some sort of blanket protection that would shield it and paint its crimes as protection of Jews. It also needed a tool that would allow it to attack its critics by weaponizing the term anti-semitism.

In an attempt to conflate anti-semitism (or racism) with criticism and rejection of Zionism, which itself is a racist ideology, the IHRA released its “working definition of antisemitism.” That definition is a rather sophisticated mechanism that provides blanket protection for Israeli government crimes. If rejecting Zionism is anti-semitism, as the new definition claims, then all of Israel’s critics can be labeled racists, and the so-called “Jewish state,” can claim to be a victim of racism.

How to silence a conversation
The following portions of the IHRA’s new definition touch on the state of Israel itself. They are written in a way that places anyone who rejects their premise on the “wrong” side of the issue. The problem is never the issue, but rather pointing it out. Here are a few examples.

"Accusing the Jews as a people, or Israel as a state, of inventing or exaggerating the Holocaust.“

This definition does not actually address Holocaust denial as one might think. The issue here is that Israel partisans have their own version of what took place during the Holocaust and do not want it to be challenged.

According to the Zionist version of events, the creation of the state of Israel was the answer to the Holocaust, even though the majority of Holocaust survivors initially chose not to go to the nascent state and many rejected Zionist ideology altogether. Israel’s backers also want to associate Palestinian resistance with Nazis and to conflate Palestinians rejection of its right to exist on their land with the Nazi desire to eliminate the Jewish people.

Israel’s apologists also want to silence any conversation about the Holocaust that they are not comfortable with. Rescue efforts attempted by non-Zionist Jewish organizations in the wake of the Holocaust were ultimately foiled by Zionist groups and discussing the topic often sparks accusations of anti-semitism. Interestingly, most, if not all of the Jewish people I have spoken to whose families perished in the Holocaust see no problem debating these issues. During a conversation I had with Rabbi Dovid Feldman of Monsey, New York, the Rabbi asked, “why would we not want to discuss these issues?”

"Accusing Jewish citizens of being more loyal to Israel, or to the alleged priorities of Jews worldwide, than to the interests of their own nations.”

According to strict Jewish law, Jews must be loyal citizens to whatever countries they reside in, and because of the racist and violent nature of the state of Israel, supporting it is a violation of international law and in some countries, contravenes the laws of the land. Providing the Israeli government with weapons and funds even contravenes U.S. law due of its use of weapons against unarmed civilians.

Zionist organizations that lobby their governments, elected representatives, and civic organizations to support Israel are, in fact, placing the Israeli government above the interests – and indeed the laws – of the countries they live in.

Jewish citizens from Western countries even volunteer to serve in the Israeli army, an army whose de facto purpose is the oppression, dispossession, and killing (or in other words, the terrorizing) of the Palestinian people. It is, therefore, not about Jewish people in general, but about Zionists in particular.

"Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g., by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavor.”

To begin with, Israel is not an expression of Jewish self-determination, it is an expression of Zionist and Israeli self-determination. Jewish people have historically rejected Zionism and there are still large communities and countless individuals who do so today. The IHRA’s attempts to conflate Zionism and Judaism are obvious.

As for Israel being a racist endeavor, immediately upon its creation, Israel brutally forced Palestinians out of their country and replaced them with Jewish migrants from around the world. Israel took the land, homes, private and common property, cultivated fields, crops, machinery, livestock, and even the bank accounts of displaced Palestinians. They then banned their return.

Palestinians became stateless practically overnight while the new state enriched its coffers with stolen property, money, and goods. Israel then defined citizenship in the newly created state as almost exclusively for Jews. This definition is meant to shield Israel by criminalizing those dare claim that it is a racist endeavor.

"Applying double standards by requiring of it a behavior not expected or demanded of any other democratic nation.”

This accusation is little more than an attempt to silence critics of Israel by asking, “why don’t you also criticize Saudi Arabia?” The idea that one must list every country that is a violator of human rights when discussing some other regime accused of violating them is absurd. It is an attempt to shift the conversation away from the issue of Israeli crimes and Zionist racism.

In short, the IHRA’s new definition of anti-semitism includes almost everything that Zionists have been accused of doing and defines even pointing out that fact as anti-semitism.

“Sin Begets Sin”
One thing leads to another, or as Jews say, “Sin Begets Sin.” The sin here is not anti-semitism, but the capitulation of progressive anti-racist forces in the face of an obvious smear campaign by a racist state and the institutions that represent it in the United Kingdom.

The Board of Deputies of British Jews claims to represent all Jews in the UK, in reality though, it only represents Zionist Jews. It is a Zionist organization that places Israeli interests above all else. How else can one explain its support for the smear campaign against Corbyn and other public servants on one hand, and its silence in the face of Israeli crimes on the other?

The fall of Jeremy Corbyn at the hands of Zionist organizations is not an issue exclusive to the UK, and its international ramifications are enormous. There can be no doubt that the Israeli Ministry of Strategic Affairs, the Israeli Embassy in London, the Jewish Labour Movement, and other Zionists groups that were behind the smear of Corbyn were popping champagne when they heard that he had been suspended from the Labour Party.

The capitulation of Labour was, in fact, an act of suicide. Under Corbyn’s leadership, the party had reached an unprecedented number of members and enjoyed tremendous support. The creation of the IHRA’s new definition of anti-semitism, followed by demands that it be accepted by the Labour Party, and the defamation of Jeremy Corbyn and Labour’s top echelon (people like Ken Livingston and Chris Williamson), were all part of a well-planned strategy to punish those who oppose Zionist crimes in Palestine.
https://www.mintpressnews.com/anti-semi ... ld/272768/
#15132513
What Has Been Done To Jeremy Corbyn
Corbyn’s suspension from the Labour Party is the culmination of an absurd series of attacks. It’s a lesson in how ruthlessly the left’s opponents will try to destroy it.

Leftist former U.K. Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn has been suspended from the party “follow[ing] the release of a damning report [on antisemitism] by the U.K.’s human rights watchdog.” The report from the Equality and Human Rights Commission (EHRC) “found unlawful acts of indirect discrimination and harassment for which the Labour Party is responsible,” and argues that under Corbyn the party’s “approach and leadership to tackling antisemitism was insufficient.” Corbyn released the following statement on Facebook:



A Labour spokesperson suggested that Corbyn’s “failure to retract” his Facebook post’s assertion that the antisemitism problem was “dramatically overstated for political reasons” necessitated his suspension, and current leader Keir Starmer, calling the report’s release a “day of shame,” immediately kicked Corbyn out pending an investigation into his conduct.

In order to understand what is going on here, some important context is needed. First, Jeremy Corbyn became the leader of the British Labour Party in 2015, and served until earlier this year. Corbyn, a radical leftist who had long been seen as a “backbencher” nonentity, won an upset victory in the leadership election. Many centrists in the Labour Party were horrified by Corbyn’s ascension to power, with Tony Blair suggesting it would be the death of the party. In fact, when the 2017 elections occurred, Corbyn’s Labour did shockingly well, boosting the party’s vote share by the largest margin since 1945 (when Clement Attlee’s socialist government kicked out Winston Churchill and created the National Health Service).

Corbyn, however, remained extremely controversial. Leaked documents would later show that party insiders who opposed his leftist agenda actually worked to undercut his leadership. As Jon Trickett and Ian Lavery (two former National Campaign Coordinators for the Labour Party) write in Jacobin, there is evidence that “some of the most senior employees of the Labour Party held its elected leadership in contempt, despised their own party members and even acted in a conspiratorial manner that undermined our 2017 general election campaign.” According to the Guardian, Labour officials “were disappointed at the party’s unexpectedly strong performance” because it boosted Corbyn’s chances of remaining in power, and were “apparently working to undermine Corbyn’s leadership.”

Corbyn was also subject to an almost unbelievably hostile series of attacks in the British press. Research from Loughborough University showed that the Labour Party under Corbyn received overwhelmingly negative media coverage compared with the Conservatives. An analysis by the Independent found that 75 percent of media coverage of Corbyn factually misrepresented him, and that both news stories and op-eds consistently heaped scorn and mockery on him:

[A] prevalent way to deride Corbyn is through scorn and ridicule. Three in ten news stories, opinion pieces, or letters to the editor mock Corbyn or scoff at his ideas, his personal life, his looks and/or his lifestyle. Besides these character assassinations, some of the popular mantras repeated over and over again in connection with Corbyn are: that he is unelectable, that his ideas are unrealistic and loony, and that he is unpatriotic. Most problematic in this regard, according to us, is the persistent association of Corbyn with terrorism. In some newspapers, for example in The Daily Telegraph, The Daily Express or The Sun, between 15 and 20 per cent of their Corbyn-related coverage associates him with IRA, Iran, Hamas, Hezbollah and/or terrorism.

Corbyn was controversial for obvious reasons: his politics posed a radical challenge to ideological orthodoxy. As my colleague Gautam Bhatia writes in a moving essay about what Corbyn meant to him as someone whose country was colonized by Britain, Corbyn broke from the British political establishment in his defiant anti-imperialism and support for the dispossessed against occupying powers. He supported Irish republicanism, the South African anti-Apartheid movement, and Palestinian nationalism. Corbyn was harshly critical of the neoliberal “New Labour” of Tony Blair, which embraced “market-friendly” policies and austerity (as well as supporting the criminal Iraq War). He was an old-school socialist who believed in healthcare and housing as human rights and was harsh in his moral judgments of those who defended inequality and brutality.

Since Corbyn’s criticisms indicted the wealthy, the press, and the political establishment, it’s not really any wonder that they were harsh on him in return, even if the criticisms were sometimes utterly ludicrous (unforgettably, he was accused of riding a “Chairman Mao style bicycle.”) But the charges were effective—in the leadup to the 2019 election, Corbyn was incredibly personally unpopular, though it was often unclear just why he was unpopular, since his actual policies polled well.

Corbyn made some serious tactical mistakes, and did not have the charisma of his opponent, Boris Johnson. But in part, his unpopularity was very clearly simply the result of people hearing constant negative things being said about him. If all you hear, over and over, is that a particular politician is a traitorous terrorist-sympathizing anti-Semite, it can be difficult not to believe that there must be some truth in it. The effect is similar to the “Two Minutes’ Hate” of George Orwell’s 1984.

Accusations of anti-Semitism were a major part of the campaign against Corbyn. Over and over, he was painted as either being anti-Semitic himself or “harboring” anti-Semites within the Labour Party. As Richard Seymour documents in Jacobin, the accusations were clearly not made in good faith. Critics suggested Corbyn’s Labour was riddled with anti-Semitism that he himself was unwilling to purge. The evidence of this, as Seymour shows, was often thin or nonexistent, and frequently depended on either taking words out of context or blowing Facebook posts by a few crank Labour Party members into a national controversy. Eventually, even though there was little to the accusations, Corbyn couldn’t shake the story, and was forced to perform constant public denunciations of antisemitism, none of which succeeded in appeasing critics. In the press, accusations were frequently treated as credible without the need for any evidence at all. See, for example, this article from The Australian on “the stench of antisemitism” that followed Corbyn:

[T]he firestorm of anti-Semitism has been impossible for Mr Corbyn to extinguish. Despite his repeated promises to crack down on the problem, an anti-Jewish culture has flourished under his watch. Almost weekly there have been revelations of anti-Jewish words and actions from his party members, and there have been repeated accusations, all denied, that he himself harbours anti-Semitic sentiments.

“Repeated accusations”—yes, but are they true? Who cares. An “anti-Jewish culture has flourished.” Any proof? No, of course not. The “firestorm has been impossible to extinguish.” Yes, and why might that be?

It was actually very clever of Corbyn’s critics to create an “antisemitism scandal” around him, because they had an important fact working in their favor: Britain is a very antisemitic country. George Orwell, in “Antisemitism in Britain,” noted that casually anti-Jewish sentiments are common in the country, and the situation has not been fixed. This means that anyone looking to find evidence of “Antisemitism in the Labour Party” could easily dredge up a good amount of material. But unless they also checked the other parties for antisemitism, they’d simply be “cherry-picking” to present something as a Labour problem that is actually a national problem.

Even so, the amount of antisemitism in Corbyn’s Labour Party was so small that denial that the Labour Party’s antisemitism problem was as serious as critics said became one of the most common pieces of evidence that a person was antisemitic, and suggesting that the Party had been “too apologetic” was seen as evidence that a person was saying antisemitism is acceptable. Essentially, the critics’ reasoning was: since they assumed their own charges of widespread antisemitism in Labour were true, then any denial of the charges would constitute the downplaying or erasure of antisemitism. This is why Corbyn has now been suspended. As you can see, his Facebook comment was innocuous, and condemned antisemitism. But he did not sign on to all of the EHRC report’s conclusions. This means he downplayed antisemitism.

But when you look at the EHRC report itself, you can see that any sensible person would have to dispute some of its conclusions. It’s 130 pages long, and long portions of it are spent tediously laying out the relevant legal standard and procedures. If you actually dive in and ask what its conclusions are, and what the evidence for those conclusions is, you can see just how flimsy the charges against Corbyn are.

For example: the report accuses Corbyn’s Labour of “unlawful harassment.” Here is a summary of its conclusion:

Two individuals are identified whose antisemitic conduct the Labour Party is responsible for, resulting in a finding of unlawful harassment. Their conduct included using antisemitic tropes and suggesting that complaints of antisemitism were fake or smears. These comments were made by Ken Livingstone, former Mayor of London and a former member of the Labour Party’s National Executive Committee, and social media posts made by Pam Bromley, a Labour Party local authority councillor in Rossendale. As these people were acting as agents of the Labour Party, the Labour Party was legally responsible for their conduct.

Now, what are the comments that constituted harassment? If you look at the report, you find that they “examined 70 complaints of antisemitism made to the Labour Party between March 2016 and May 2019.” Two out of those 70 cases constituted “harassment.” The first case was one of “use of antisemitic tropes.” A local counselor in the borough of Rossendale, which has 70,000 people (largest towns: Bacup and Haslingden, which I’m sure you’ve heard of), made a Facebook post that read as follows:

“Had Jeremy Corbyn and the Labour Party pulled up the drawbridge and nipped the bogus AS [antisemitism] accusations in the bud in the first place we would not be where we are now and the fifth column in the LP [Labour Party] would not have managed to get such a foothold … the Lobby has miscalculated … The witch hunt has created brand new fightback networks … The Lobby will then melt back into its own cesspit.”

The counselor, Pam Bromley, was found to have conducted illegal harassment by “referring to Jewish people being a ‘fifth column.’”

This is the number one instance, the worst crime of antisemitic harassment that the EHRC found. Now, note that to make out the charge, the report actually has to add an assumption that it does not prove, namely that Bromley was calling Jewish people a “fifth column.” In fact, Bromley does not say Jewish people, the report says Jewish people. “Fifth column” is a nasty conspiratorial term, but it is not inherently antisemitic: it has been used to apply to secret Nazis, and has even been used by Israelis to apply to Arabs in their midst. In fact, as noted above, Corbyn’s Labour did have a quite obvious Fifth Column: those working within the party to undermine him.

Bromley’s reference to the Lobby is certainly a reference to the Israel lobby. But arguing that those pushing the interests of a particular country’s government are weaponizing allegations of racism does not in itself amount to a statement about Jewish people as a whole, because the Israeli government does not, in fact, represent Jewish people as a whole.

Now, I think it’s perfectly fine to say that this local official from a borough in Lancashire wrote an unpleasant Facebook post. But if, in the course of the investigation of dozens upon dozens of incidents, this is the only incident found in which a party official clearly used “antisemitic tropes,” I have to conclude that I am actually shocked by how minimal the antisemitism in the Labour Party was, considering that, as I say, casual antisemitism is rife in Britain.

The second of the two instances of “illegal harassment” is a comment made by Ken Livingstone, the former mayor of London. Now, I happen to think that Livingstone did deserve the severe criticism he got when he made the ridiculous comment that Hitler had been a Zionist. But it’s notable that in the report, the behavior of Livingstone that constitutes illegal harassment by the Labour party is described as:

Suggesting that complaints of antisemitism are fake or smears. Labour Party agents denied antisemitism in the Party and made comments dismissing complaints as ‘smears’ and ‘fake’. This conduct may target Jewish members as deliberately making up antisemitism complaints to undermine the Labour Party, and ignores legitimate and genuine complaints of antisemitism in the Party. These comments went beyond simply describing the agents’ own personal experience of antisemitism in the Party.

Again, this “presumes the conclusion.” What if the complaints were fake or smears? This has to be proven. If the complaints are proven not to be fake or smears, then yes, it’s true that denying their veracity constitutes denying the real existence of antisemitism. But let us, just as a hypothetical, imagine that antisemitism charges were being lodged frivolously as a political weapon. Because the EHRC doesn’t consider this to even be a possibility, then even if the antisemitism charges were false, the person who denied the false charges would be guilty of antisemitic harassment. This is a train of legal reasoning from the Franz Kafka school of jurisprudence.

Livingstone is cited in the EHCR report for his defense of Naz Shah, an MP who serves as the Vice Chair of the All-Party Parliamentary Group of British Muslims. Shah has faced death threats and abuse by pro-Brexit campaigners and has long been a campaigner for race and gender equality. She had posted online a tasteless, offensive meme meme from Middle East scholar Norman Finkelstein (who, though the child of Holocaust survivors himself, is prone to making inflammatory statements) jokingly suggesting Israel ought to be relocated to the United States because of the warm relationship between the two countries. The EHCR notes that she also made “a post in which she appeared to liken Israeli policies to those of Hitler.” Shah then apologized for her conduct in Haaretz, saying she hadn’t understood why it was offensive at the time.

The EHCR’s report does not criticize Shah directly, but criticizes Livingstone for defending Shah, saying he “sought to minimise [the posts’] offensive nature.” The ECHR says that Livingstone said “scrutiny of Naz Shah’s conduct was part of a smear campaign by ‘the Israel lobby’ to stigmatise critics of Israel as antisemitic, and was intended to undermine and disrupt the leadership of Jeremy Corbyn MP.” But, the EHCR says, Shah “went beyond legitimate criticism of the Israeli government,” and thus was not protected by Article 10 of the European Human Rights Convention, which protects freedom of expression. Again, while it may indeed be fair to suggest that Shah behaved badly here, the report does not ask whether it is true that Shah was singled out for scrutiny in order to undermine Jeremy Corbyn’s leadership. Shah can both be wrong and the focus on two of her Facebook comments can be excessive and politically motivated. But again, the very idea that there may have been a political motive here is assumed to be false, and thus alleging it is taken as evidence that one is trivializing antisemitism.

Personally I think it was correct to suspend Ken Livingstone from an official party role for his appalling Hitler comment. But the EHCR report, the one Jeremy Corbyn has been punished for criticizing the conclusions of, alleges that both Bromley and Livingstone engaged in illegal harassment because she said the phrase “Fifth Column” on Facebook and he said Naz Shah was being attacked as part of a smear campaign. From this evidence, it concludes that the Labour Party is responsible for illegal harassment.

Illegal antisemitic discrimination and harassment is not the only charge made against Corbyn’s Labour by the report, though it is the headline finding. The report also alleges that Corbyn’s office “interfered” with the procedure of handling antisemitism complaints by making recommendations about how those cases should be handled, and that it failed to provide the proper training on handling antisemitism complaints. When it says Corbyn’s office “interfered,” in some cases this appears to have involved trying to speed up the process of punishing someone for antisemitism, in order to avoid appearing to be dragging their feet on antisemitism cases. For instance, the report cites an example in which Corbyn’s office told the complaint decisionmaking body that thy “would like immediate suspension of [name] and a robust press line to that effect.” The report concludes that this constituted “political interference” and therefore was a kind of “indirect discrimination” because those making antisemitism complaints might legitimately have feared they would get “differential treatment.” Thus, in the topsy-turvy land of the report, if Corbyn’s office tried to get an antisemite disciplined for their antisemitism, they might have been engaging in discrimination, and thus worsening the antisemitism problem.

Ultimately, these are procedural allegations about bureaucratic failures, however, rather than allegations of actual antisemitism by the Labour Party and its officials. Furthermore, Corbyn might very well accept that his party did not handle the process of responding to antisemitism complaints as well as it could have (especially since it did not expect “proper procedural handling of antisemitism complaints” to form such a core issue of his leadership). In his Facebook post, Corbyn only says that he does not agree with all of the report’s conclusions, and I would guess that the ones he objects most strongly to are the headline findings of “antiemitic discrimination and harassment” by the Labour Party, which as we’ve seen are generously described as shaky. For objecting, however, he was suspended.

I do not think Jeremy Corbyn understood the ruthlessness of his country’s politics when he came into office. He would have done well to watch a few episodes of the British satire The Thick Of It. In the very first episode, a parliamentary minister is told there are rumors he is going to step down. The rumors are baseless, but eventually the rumors become so strong that he is actually forced to step down, to avoid creating a distraction. Corbyn’s antisemitism scandal was similar.
https://www.currentaffairs.org/2020/11/ ... my-corbyn/
#15134366
skinster wrote:https://twitter.com/Survation/status/1324727282607575047


Meanwhile Labour is starting to take 2% lead on average against the tories and highest being around 5%: https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/w35fkmlez4/ ... 105_W1.pdf
#15134368
JohnRawls wrote:Meanwhile Labour is starting to take 2% lead on average against the tories and highest being around 5%: https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/w35fkmlez4/ ... 105_W1.pdf

That is just a wet dream. There isn't going to be a general election in Britain for a long time.

The EU is just fucked. Remaining parts will be allocated between Britain and Turkey. Accept the reality. ;)
#15134369
Istanbuller wrote:That is just a wet dream. There isn't going to be a general election in Britain for a long time.

The EU is just fucked. Remaining parts will be allocated between Britain and Turkey. Accept the reality. ;)


Brexit will be minimized because of Trumps loss. Tory government will collase once it becomes more and more unpopular so everything is going as planned. Worst case: minimalistic Brexit, best case: Tory government collapse and Labour gets elected who might cancel Brexit or might proceed with minimalistic one.

Trump is a major blow to the alt-right movement and especially those who didn't abandon Trump in the end. Also Biden should be more thugish to dictators like Putin or Erdogan. I am not sure how tough he will be on China though, probably will continue Trumps trade war just in a low-key way.
#15134371
JohnRawls wrote:Brexit will be minimized because of Trumps loss. Tory government will collase once it becomes more and more unpopular so everything is going as planned. Worst case: minimalistic Brexit, best case: Tory government collapse and Labour gets elected who might cancel Brexit or might proceed with minimalistic one.

Trump is a major blow to the alt-right movement and especially those who didn't abandon Trump in the end. Also Biden should be more thugish to dictators like Putin or Erdogan. I am not sure how tough he will be on China though, probably will continue Trumps trade war just in a low-key way.

It is your wishful thinking. The reality is very much different. There will be no rollback of Brexit.

Turkey and the EU will negotiate the terms of refugee agreement in this november. Britain knows what is going to happen. So they won't be in this. Turkish presence into Europe will grow. Visa free travel is on the table as well. If the EU rejects any of Turkey's demand, then it is going to be millions of regugess at the gates of Europe. :lol:

We can also make them fly to the US if Biden is so interested in Syria. we have some special plans for him. 8)
#15134374
Istanbuller wrote:It is your wishful thinking. The reality is very much different. There will be no rollback of Brexit.

Turkey and the EU will negotiate the terms of refugee agreement in this november. Britain knows what is going to happen. So they won't be in this. Turkish presence into Europe will grow. Visa free travel is on the table as well. If the EU rejects any of Turkey's demand, then it is going to be millions of regugess at the gates of Europe. :lol:

We can also make them fly to the US if Biden is so interested in Syria. we have some special plans for him. 8)


You said this last time and the Greeks humiliated you. EU will do what is best for EU. Meanwhile your Lira will feel some hurt ;)
#15135508
Labour hierarchy now trying to ban simple solidarity motion - Already passed by CLPs
Motions on Corbyn’s suspension and EHRC report already banned. Now new attack on free speech targets fundamental principle of Labour movement

The Labour Party’s hierarchy has responded to the passing of motions, by local Labour parties, (CLPs) of support for Jeremy Corbyn – by banning even simple expressions of support for the former Labour leader.

Previously, motions on Corbyn’s suspension – for comments the Equality and Human Rights Commission (EHRC) said he has a legally-protected human right to make – and on the EHRC’s report on antisemitism in the Labour Party had been ruled out by party general secretary David Evans.

But CLPs are now being told that even motions that do not mention either the report or the suspension, but which merely express solidarity, are also banned and may be punished by disciplinary action, on the basis that while the issues-that-may-not-be-mentioned might not be mentioned, the existence of the motions is itself a reference to them.

Members of Labour’s National Executive Committee (NEC) have tried to fight the Stalinist stricture, but so far without success.

Solidarity – the fundamental value of the Labour movement – is apparently now not only forbidden but also punishable.
https://skwawkbox.org/2020/11/10/exclus ... d-by-clps/



#15136005
Labour members on Starmer’s own patch defy ban to express solidarity with Corbyn
Labour members in Keir Starmer’s own constituency have defied a party ban to vote for an expression of solidarity with suspended former party leader Jeremy Corbyn.

Corbyn was suspended for pointing out the minuscule incidence of antisemitism in the party, following the publication of the widely-misrepresented Equality and Human Rights Commission (EHRC) report, even though the report itself confirmed his legally-protected right to say so.

Despite the likely unlawfulness of the suspension, Labour’ hierarchy first attempted to ban members from debating motions on either the suspension or on the EHRC – and then, when members simply voted solidarity with Corbyn, that was also forbidden.

But members of Highgate branch of Starmer’s Holborn and St Pancras have ignored the ban – and voted last night to affirm the following motion:

This Branch/CLP expresses its solidarity with Jeremy Corbyn.

Jeremy is a lifelong campaigner against racism and antisemitism.

We believe that unity, not division, is important for the Party to make progress and effectively challenge racism, fascism, antisemitism and harassment in whatever form this may take.

For Action by:

Highgate Branch to forward to NEC, Labour Party leaders office and CLP; and for CLP to forward to the Labour Leader’s Office.


The result comes in a CLP (constituency Labour party) that Starmer has been accused of treating as a ‘personal fiefdom’, but it is not the first time locals have made their feelings known. In August, a message was left on his constituency office window referring to Starmer’s lack of opposition to Boris Johnson’s mismanagement of the coronavirus pandemic, demanding “65,000 dead – DO SOMETHING”.
https://skwawkbox.org/2020/11/11/labour ... th-corbyn/


Russia-Ukraine War 2022

Tell it to all the "it's all the same" […]

Muscovites always seem to get offended by the […]

Kiev fell apart, so they moved to Moscow , which […]

https://twitter.com/iamdenya_de/status/17700095631[…]