[QatzelOk]

But the same basic concept is the same; the same engine of anxious self-righteous feeling drives them.

At the same time, there are "natural" feelings that come about when a human reaches certain key ages in their lives. A natural rebelliousness, that is supposed to lead to something natural - like lots of sex with a wide variety of people. But this is blocked for economic reasons, this natural rebelliousness.

And what humanity gets instead, is some kind of perversion of the original natural feeling.

Commercial media - and other powerful institutions- have been strip-mining many our natural instinctive behaviors for thousands of years, and the resulting sublimation and consumption are both fatal, and would be to any animal, with or without amazing texts.

[Finfinder]

He promised to eliminate all US debt within two terms which is impossible short of outright default (needless to say he did the opposite, hugely increasing debt even before corona). He promised Mexico would pay for the wall. Already two utterly unreasonable things to expect.

He promised to reduce the trade deficit, but it's much larger now than in 2016, because he doesn't have a fucking clue about international macro and doesn't give a damn either way. He promised to increase taxes for the wealthy, he did the opposite. He promised the bring back manufacturing jobs, but employment in manufacturing increased at the same pace as under Obama (before collapsing due to covid).

But fair enough, if voters just expected lower taxes, less regulation, a more conservative SCOTUS and a tougher stance on China, those expectations were justified.

I wasn't referring to Trump's election promises though, but to Trump's alternate reality bullshit many Americans believe in. That's the really shocking and dangerous part.



Trump doesn't have ideals and is only fighting for himself. If voters have ideals and they think Trump is a useful tool to implement them, that makes them opportunists.

What part of that is supposed to be insightful. It's not the people who would support Trump in anyway that laps up what you label as alternative reality, it's the opposition like yourself that Trump has trolled endlessly for four years that gobbles it up. Now who's really the idiots as you mistakenly claim?

here's a couple doozies ...... Joe Biden promised to cure cancer and most of us are still waiting for our $2500 from Obama, that and you can keep your doctor. . . . Start building the monuments now . LOL

[Rugoz]

I knew he would fight and not concede. Why should he quit yet?

Whether he concedes or not is irrelevant, but his election scam alternate reality con is damaging American democracy. But I forgot you inhabit that alternate reality as well so this debate is pointless.

[annatar1914]

Whether he concedes or not is irrelevant, but his election scam alternate reality con is damaging American democracy. But I forgot you inhabit that alternate reality as well so this debate is pointless.

Again with the disingenuous gaslighting

If President Trump can prove it in court to the satisfaction of the SCOTUS, then he will be re-elected to the Presidency. If he cannot, he won't be, it's as simple as that. Until then, all the BS one way or another is what is pointless, especially when nobody really has any doubt whatsoever in their minds that the Biden campaign would definitely be doing the same thing right now had things been different somehow.

What's the rush? Gore was given until December 14th to prove or disprove his ideas on the election.

What's with all the anger and hypocritical pearl clutching at this? Simply because the Orange Man is doing it?

I don't think the election was stolen, but I could be wrong, as could you and other people. Nor do I support Trump or Liberal Bourgeoisie ''Democracy'' for that matter.

I just find the seething barely contained hatred and hypocrisy to be interesting, and far more important.

[Godstud]

Again with the disingenuous gaslighting

Stop using a term you do not understand.

Gaslighting:
is a form of emotional abuse that's seen in abusive relationships. It's the act of manipulating a person by forcing them to question their thoughts, memories, and the events occurring around them. A victim of gaslighting can be pushed so far that they question their own sanity.

There was no widespread fraud in the 2020 election. Trump saying so does not make it a reality.

People going along with Trump's lie are fighting against Democracy in the USA.

[annatar1914]

Stop using a term you do not understand.

I understand it entirely, Liberals are ''gaslighting'' Trump supporters into not believing that the election was stolen, when something like that needs to be tried in the courts, not the media and internet. Until then, it's ''gaslighting''.

Gaslighting:
is a form of emotional abuse that's seen in abusive relationships. It's the act of manipulating a person by forcing them to question their thoughts, memories, and the events occurring around them. A victim of gaslighting can be pushed so far that they question their own sanity.

See above.

There was no widespread fraud in the 2020 election.

So you say, but that isn't proof. Proof one way or another will come from the SCOTUS final decision.

Trump saying so does not make it a reality.

Nor does Biden and the MSM saying that it isn't so, make that a reality either.

People going along with Trump's lie are fighting against Democracy in the USA.

You are assuming that it's a lie, and you're assuming that Trump supporters are against democracy in the USA, when they think that they are defending it.

And I know full well that Liberals would do anything to remove ''Hitler'' (Trump) from power, including rigging the results of an election. I mean, if he's really as bad as the Liberals say, and the Democrats aren't all cynical opportunist scum, would that not be the proper course of action? Would it not even possibly avoid future bloodshed, a rigged election against ''Hitler'' (Trump)?

[Godstud]

Using facts to refute bullshit is not gaslighting. Get a clue.

Trump lies all the time. That is irrefutable FACT.

He said this election would be rigged if he LOST.

Trump has longstanding history of calling elections 'rigged' if he doesn’t like the results
On election night in 2012, when President Barack Obama was reelected, Trump said that the election was a "total sham" and a "travesty," while also making the claim that the United States is "not a democracy" after Obama secured his victory.

In October 2016, just weeks before the general election, Trump wanted to cast doubt on the results by tweeting, "The election is absolutely being rigged by the dishonest and distorted media pushing Crooked Hillary - but also at many polling places - SAD," without providing any evidence for the claim.

Fast forward to today, Trump took to his favorite platform, just moments before major media outlets had projected Biden the winner in this year's election, and falsely tweeted, "I WON THIS ELECTION, BY A LOT!"
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-l ... d=74126926

That you, and other people, continue to believe Trump's lies, only makes you into fools.

[annatar1914]

Using facts is not gaslighting. You'd be a fool to think that.

@Godstud

I have not seen any facts as such one way or another that would probably stand up in a court of law to my knowledge. And voter fraud allegations cut both ways in the 2020 election; I have heard the specific allegation for example that 200,000 votes in Georgia and elsewhere that were Biden votes were illegally eliminated, but that didn't get much news play, did it?

https://www.veteranstoday.com/2020/12/0 ... -carolina/



So I'm willing to let a court of judges who have much more access to the known facts than I do, decide on the election as is their job in these circumstances, instead of a partisan media and internet.

[Godstud]

@annatar1914 Allegations are not facts. They are accusations.

All of these allegations have turned out to be FALSE, or outright lies.

How gullible are you? Most of these cases haven't even gotten to court because they are based on false allegations with no evidence.

[Rugoz]

I don't think the election was stolen, but I could be wrong, as could you and other people.

The probability of Trump screaming fraud when there is no fraud whatsoever is 100%.

But yes, regardless of Trump's screaming the election could still be stolen. I could be wrong. At this point with 0.01% probability. Congrats .

[annatar1914]

@Godstud

Allegations are not facts. They are accusations.

Right, exactly, so your allegation that there has been no fraud in the 2020 US Presidential election is a allegation, not a legal fact determined in a court of law.

All of these allegations have turned out to be FALSE, or outright lies.

All of them? Are you 100% certain of that?

How gullible are you?

Not gullible at all, which is why I want this in court.

Most of these cases haven't even gotten to court because they are based on false allegations with no evidence.

That's what happened in 2000 AD, until the Supreme Court heard the single case of 'Gore versus Bush' and rendered a decision on it.

[Godstud]

Claiming that there was no significant fraud in the 2020 US election is not an allegation. Claiming that there was, is an allegation.

Allegation:
a claim or assertion that someone has done something illegal or wrong, typically one made without proof.

[annatar1914]

The probability of Trump screaming fraud when there is no fraud whatsoever is 100%.

But yes, regardless of Trump's screaming the election could still be stolen. I could be wrong. At this point with 0.01% probability. Congrats .

So you've determined that in your 'a priori' wisdom, right? It's circular reasoning, based on the emotive ''orange man bad'' feelings, not hard facts. And people like you want to keep your hands clean and disbelieve that anyone on your ''side'' would throw an election against ''Hitler''(Trump). And that is totally understandable if they did, if he is exactly as they think he is...

[Rugoz]

So you've determined that in your 'a priori' wisdom, right?

It's basic understanding of other human beings, not "wisdom".

[annatar1914]

It's basic understanding of other human beings, not "wisdom".

No, you've shown with other posts that you have little understanding of the motivations of people who have voted contrary to your worldview. That isn't ''basic understanding''. I don't always agree with these people either, but I recognize that they do have an intelligible and rational worldview that generates their political ideas. But interestingly enough just like you, their worldviews are biased and conditioned by ''a priori'' assumptions in some things.

[Rugoz]

No, you've shown with other posts that you have little understanding of the motivations of people who have voted contrary to your worldview. That isn't ''basic understanding''. I don't always agree with these people either, but I recognize that they do have an intelligible and rational worldview that generates their political ideas. But interestingly enough just like you, their worldviews are biased and conditioned by ''a priori'' assumptions in some things.

It's not "a priori", Trump reveals himself as an epic bullshitter on a regular basis. Anybody who doesn't see through him at this point is blind or stupid.

[annatar1914]

It's not "a priori", Trump reveals himself as an epic bullshitter on a regular basis. Anybody who doesn't see through him at this point is blind or stupid.

@Rugoz

By 2020, many did. But also many saw Biden/Harris as an absolute nightmare for them, and so voted for Trump because he wasn't Biden, just as many voted for Biden because he wasn't Trump.

So it's not a question of being ''blind'' or ''stupid'', you have to get away from that dehumanizing thinking.

[QatzelOk]

Why are so many people arguing about Trump in this thread?

A man has hurt his foot.

We should be sending him our thoughts and prayers, and not using someone's pain as a launching pad for our own personal biases and political opinions.

[B0ycey]

A man has hurt his foot.

Sure, as if that was why this thread was created. To debate a sprained ankle.

[Beren]

People going along with Trump's lie are fighting against Democracy in the USA.

Why not DEMOCRACY, Godstud? Or even D E M O C R A C Y perhaps? If people dare question the integrity of the system and that Biden managed to rebuild the Blue Wall besides somehow taking Georgia and Arizona while being unable to win either Ohio or Florida, then they must be A N T I - D E M O C R A T I C!

Flip, flip, flip, and then F L I P!