[Atlantis]

AZ has no experience producing vaccines and has decided to get it's feet wet in the middle of a pandemic. Placing a patent in the hands of a company with limited experience in this field is reckless. Give AZ a license along with other manufacturers in other countries and we'll see who the better manufacturer is.

Does AZ actually produce the Covid vaccine? It has agreements with 25 different companies (mostly in the 3rd world) to manufacture the vaccine, who all have the license to produce it. Any company with the resources is free to enter into a licensing agreement. Anybody can download the patents from the internet.

[AFAIK]

Do you even know what a patent is?
Every time I read one of your posts I feel myself growing stupider.

[Pants-of-dog]

You have no argument. What you say is simply silly. The vaccines are produced in developing countries.

Please note that this contradicts your claim that it would take years for developing countries to produce vaccines.

[QatzelOk]

Do you even know what a patent is?
Every time I read one of your posts I feel myself growing stupider.

Don't blame poor Atlantis.

This whole pandemic was built out of stupidity, from the gain-of-function disease productions in the prequel, to all the jostling for patents and monopoly money from no-bid contracts, to the experimental products that will be tested on human guinea pigs.

The measures that were guaranteed to not work, the media that built commercial-friendly narratives rather than provide information to debate, and the bribe-ready politicians all over the world that neo-liberalism "let in."

If StupidityTM is a ride at an amusement park, the WestTM has a season's pass to Disney WorldTM.

[Tainari88]

Don't blame poor Atlantis.

This whole pandemic was built out of stupidity, from the gain-of-function disease productions in the prequel, to all the jostling for patents and monopoly money from no-bid contracts, to the experimental products that will be tested on human guinea pigs.

The measures that were guaranteed to not work, the media that built commercial-friendly narratives rather than provide information to debate, and the bribe-ready politicians all over the world that neo-liberalism "let in."

If StupidityTM is a ride at an amusement park, the WestTM has a season's pass to Disney WorldTM.

Well, the Cuban government has spoken. They are giving free anti Covid vaccines to tourists or anyone who needs it and they are welcoming medical tourism. The vaccine looks promising and they say it is for better world health. The plan is to produce 100 million shots there.

It is only one hour from this city in a plane trip. Might be worth a shot.

Lol.

https://www.elfinanciero.com.mx/mundo/c ... en-la-isla

[Atlantis]

Please note that this contradicts your claim that it would take years for developing countries to produce vaccines.

It certainly doesn't. Irrespective of developing or developed nation status, for companies that don't have the know-how, the equipment and the supply chain, it'll take years to produce the novel vaccines.

The companies licensed to produce the novel vaccines in the developed or the developing world in 8 to 12 months (see examples above) had substantial vaccine experience, received a technology transfer, and had the equipment and the supply chain to produce the vaccines. For all other companies it'll take much longer.

The only effect of a waiver of patent rights would be a transfer of high-tech jobs to China. China and other emerging markets have used forced transfer of Western technology as condition for market access. This would be the first time Western countries would use forced transfer of technology to China. A novel idea

[Pants-of-dog]

It certainly doesn't.

Yes, if you are making the claim that vaccines would take a ling time to make, and then claim that they are already being made, you are contradicting yourself.

Irrespective of developing or developed nation status, for companies that don't have the know-how, the equipment and the supply chain, it'll take years to produce the novel vaccines.

The companies licensed to produce the novel vaccines in the developed or the developing world in 8 to 12 months (see examples above) had substantial vaccine experience, received a technology transfer, and had the equipment and the supply chain to produce the vaccines. For all other companies it'll take much longer.

The only effect of a waiver of patent rights would be a transfer of high-tech jobs to China. China and other emerging markets have used forced transfer of Western technology as condition for market access. This would be the first time Western countries would use forced transfer of technology to China. A novel idea :?:

Evidence?

[Atlantis]

@Pants-of-dog, refer to examples above.

[Pants-of-dog]

@Pants-of-dog, refer to examples above.

None of the examples of evidence prove your claim that developing countries are incapable fo making the required vaccines.

[Atlantis]

None of the examples of evidence prove your claim that developing countries are incapable fo making the required vaccines.

Either you don't read or you don't understand what the words mean.

I never said developing countries cannot make the vaccines. I said, on the contrary, many vaccines are made in developing countries.

Each and every existing example shows that under the best of conditions it takes 8 to 12 months with a licensing agreement. Otherwise it'll take years.

By mechanically contradicting arbitrarily parsed text without understanding the text you function like a computer bot that cannot understand contents. There is no meaning in any of what you say.

[Pants-of-dog]

@Atlantis

If developing countries can make vaccines, the rest of us should be giving them the formula for free so that they can vaccinate their own people as quickly as possible.

[Atlantis]

@Atlantis

If developing countries can make vaccines, the rest of us should be giving them the formula for free so that they can vaccinate their own people as quickly as possible.

Just download the patents from the internet if you are so smart.

@fuser, in the thousands of documents I have seen in the last year, every real-life example shows that it takes at least 8 to 12 months to start production in the best case scenario, when companies have

- experience
- qualified staff
- a technology transfer (not IP waiver)
- the equipment
- a supply chain

in the framework of a licensing agreement.

Here is another example in just now: Emergent in the US entered into an agreement in April, 2020, to produce the Janssen vaccine. Today, 12 month later, the company still has such production problems that the FDA ordered it to throw away the batches produced so far because of quality issues. (In many countries, faulty vaccines would be sold as counterfeits instead of being discarded.)

https://apnews.com/article/politics-cor ... 13a6db7fed

In all other cases, it'll take years.

You owe me an apology.

You ignored the facts I took trouble to sum up for you (and which can be easily verified) to push your ideological agenda. This demonstrates to the forum that the ideological views you are so aggressively pushing here are totally divorced from reality.

[fuser]

Stop tagging me, I don't have any interest in arguing with you. I do expect good faith arguments after spending over 10 years on the forum, hence I just refuse to waste my time arguing with posters like you. So please, by al means enjoy the last post but don't waste my notification space by your useless tagging.

[Pants-of-dog]

Just download the patents from the internet if you are so smart.

That would be illegal.

So, people in the developing world who do know how to do this and have a lab at their disposal cannot make vaccines and help save lives.

[Atlantis]

By invoking the Defense Production Act, the US has became the only major vaccine producer in the world to ban the export of vaccines. Not enough, by also banning the export of materials needed for vaccine production, the US effectively strangles the vaccine production in Europe, India and other places. Vaccine production depends on the international supply chain. The US is sabotaging vaccine production by disrupting the international supply chain.

That is what the Anglophones in this forum are desperately trying to sweep under the carpet.

Vaccine supply chains disrupted by U.S. restrictions: Curevac co-founder

BERLIN (Reuters) - Global supply chains for making COVID-19 vaccines have been disrupted by U.S. restrictions, creating headaches for companies seeking to build production in Europe, according to one of the founders of Germany’s Curevac.

Florian von der Muelbe said in a newspaper interview that he was hopeful Curevac’s vaccine candidate would win emergency European approval this quarter and confirmed a forecast that it would produce 300 million doses this year.

He added, however, that vaccine makers seeking to build production in Europe were at a serious disadvantage because suppliers in the United States were required under the Defense Production Act to meet the needs of the home market first.

“Global supply chains are disrupted,” von der Muelbe, now Curevac’s chief production officer, told the Rheinische Post in an interview published on Wednesday.

“Be it chemicals, equipment, filters or hoses: U.S. manufacturers are obliged first to meet American demand, and that means we are slipping down the list.”

Curevac is already producing its vaccine candidate, which is based on messenger RNA (mRNA) technology, at its plant in Tuebingen, Germany.

It has just struck a partnership with Swiss contract manufacturer Celonic Group, adding to earlier alliances with Novartis AG, Bayer AG, Fareva, Wacker and Rentschler Biopharma SE.

Indian vaccine giant SII warns of supply hit from U.S. raw materials export ban

That would be illegal.

No, it's not illegal to download the intellectual property and make the vaccines.

Here is the IP for one of the key components. You are free to download the patent and make the lipid nanoparticles. If you have achieved that, I'm more than willing to point you to all the other IP.

Lipid formulations for nucleic acid delivery

In conclusion, you have shown that your are:

- ignorant of vaccines,

- ignorant of manufacturing,

- ignorant of IP,

- incapable of reading my posts.

That obviously doesn't stop you from making sweeping statements about things you haven't got a clue about. You are aggressively spreading your ideological bias while being totally divorced from the reality of this world.

There is nothing more that needs to be said.

[Atlantis]

Stop tagging me, I don't have any interest in arguing with you. I do expect good faith arguments after spending over 10 years on the forum, hence I just refuse to waste my time arguing with posters like you. So please, by al means enjoy the last post but don't waste my notification space by your useless tagging.

You made an unfounded attack on me by making false allegations. Now, that you have been are proven wrong, you are chickening out, instead of doing the honorable thing.

This is a public forum, and I will reply to the false information you are spreading here.

[Pants-of-dog]

@Atlantis

Patents are specifically designed to stop people from using IP without the permission of the owner.

This is the case for several of the vaccines now. Thus, it is illegal to simply use that information.

[Atlantis]

@Atlantis

Patents are specifically designed to stop people from using IP without the permission of the owner.

This is the case for several of the vaccines now. Thus, it is illegal to simply use that information.

To be granted a patent, you have to publish your invention. Thus, patents are specifically designed to spread innovation and so that others can use your invention. Without patent protection, you have to keep your invention secrete. That would stifle innovation.

[QatzelOk]

By invoking the Defense Production Act, the US has became the only major vaccine producer in the world to ban the export of vaccines. Not enough, by also banning the export of materials needed for vaccine production, the US effectively strangles the vaccine production in Europe, India and other places. Vaccine production depends on the international supply chain. The US is sabotaging vaccine production by disrupting the international supply chain.

That is what the Anglophones in this forum are desperately trying to sweep under the carpet.

It would be poetic justice if the "vaccines" end up killing all of those rich greed-bags who demanded to get theirs first. And if the rich, hoarding nations are cut down to size population-wise, it might free up humanity to make real positive change.

It would also leave behind survivors who have a less selfish disposition, thus empowering mankind's ability to survive.

It would be sad for the dearly-departed vaccinated rich people, but at the same time... it might eliminate our most selfish and tech-abusing humans. The ones who screamed "gimme that vaccine!" and jumped into line ahead of everyone else.

I am NOT saying that this is the case or that the vaccine program is a genocide project (how would I know? or you?).
I am only mentionning one of the possible positive effects of a kill-off of the selfish modern people that technology and propaganda have created.

I am trying to stay positive.

To be granted a patent, you have to publish your invention. Thus, patents are specifically designed to spread innovation and so that others can use your invention. Without patent protection, you have to keep your invention secrete. That would stifle innovation.

In other words, we exist to make money. And even pandemics have to fit into this ideology.

[Tainari88]

It would be poetic justice if the "vaccines" end up killing all of those rich greed-bags who demanded to get theirs first. And if the rich, hoarding nations are cut down to size population-wise, it might free up humanity to make real positive change.

It would also leave behind survivors who have a less selfish disposition, thus empowering mankind's ability to survive.

It would be sad for the dearly-departed vaccinated rich people, but at the same time... it might eliminate our most selfish and tech-abusing humans. The ones who screamed "gimme that vaccine!" and jumped into line ahead of everyone else.

I am NOT saying that this is the case or that the vaccine program is a genocide project (how would I know? or you?).
I am only mentionning one of the possible positive effects of a kill-off of the selfish modern people that technology and propaganda have created.

I am trying to stay positive.


In other words, we exist to make money. And even pandemics have to fit into this ideology.

I have had various friends tell me "Why don't you get vaccinated in the USA? You got your passport and they will get theirs first?"

I won't do that Qatzel because until average Mexicans with my age and infirmity get the ability to do it? I won't jump the line at all. I find that immoral. I also don't really trust all these drug manufacturers.

Plus, once the Cubans have a lot of their vaccines available this next month of June or so? I would like to drop some tourist money on them and take their vaccine. I trust it more than the one they sell as the premier doses to Mexico and other nations.