[noemon]

Two documentaries on Gaza

I 've watched these.

It's extreme.

Confirms what I told you yesterday, that you are expecting Israel to accommodate the Palestinians.

It's never going to happen.

Possibilities:

1) The Western world imposes an international solution based on the pre-1967 borders. Estimated Probability for this to happen 0.1% or 1000/1 in my view.
2) The Muslim world forces peace terms with war. Estimated Probability is 5-10%(18/1-9/1) in my view.
3) Miracle(other)? Estimated Probability 0%(same as Covid?)

Regardless of that, Palestinian people require immediate evacuation to safety & security.

So do Israelis, near the theater of war.

A historical timeline of the Israel-Palestine Conflict.

Partition plans offered throughout the years:

1) 1937 British Partition Plan 20% Jewish 80% Arab - Accepted by Jews and rejected by Arabs.
2) 1947 UN Partition Plan 54% Jewish 46% Arab -Accepted by Jews, rejected by Arabs; Egypt, Syria, Jordan and Iraq declare war against Israel.
3) 1967, Egypt, Jordan and Syria declare new war. Egypt loses Gaza, Jordan loses the West Bank and Syria the Golan.
4) Israel offers these territories + East Jerusalem (except for the Golan) to a Palestinian state & in the Muslim conference of Sudan, the proposal gets rejected.
5) 1973 Yom Kippur war.
6) 2000, Barak & Arafat Oslo Accords, Gaza & 94% of West Bank + East Jerusalem are offered. 10-year long discussions are thwarted by Hamas suicide bombings for its outright rejection of the plan that cements itself in Gaza onwards.
7) 2008 Israeli soldiers evacuate Gaza.
8 ) 2023 Hamas with Hezbollah & Syria(?) are conducting guerilla & mortar operations while Israel keeps expanding in the West Bank, East Jerusalem and Golan.

The Arab-Muslim world has rejected all the partition plans put before them and even if Israel gave Gaza, West Bank and East Jerusalem, it would still not achieve peace as is quite evident.

So we go back to the Russian roulette. All-or-nothing hustle. Fasces called it the Albanian blood feud. More apt perhaps.

[skinster]

No, it's not. It is occupied, and I have always been against that, but it's not a concentration camp.

You think you know more than Ilan Pappe, the Israeli historian who referred to Gaza as a concentration camp? Or Norman Finkelstein who has spent years in Palestine, including Gaza, and wrote books entirely on Gaza? What about the Zionist savage architect of the camp?

I said, if Thai people were working in Palestine and Israelis killed them, you'd probably care, right? Yes, or no?

My response was to your silly notion that they'd even be allowed in Palestine to work given the way Israel controls all aspects of Palestine. Maybe that might make you wonder 'hmm, how come they wouldn't be allowed in Palestine? And how come Israel controls that since I believed Palestine was a sovereign state just like Israel?'. But no, we're getting this kind of emotive crap while Israel rains down bombs and white phosphorous all over the concentration camp once again.

If most Palestinians didn't want to eliminate Israel, I might feel a lot more compassion for them and their cause. How does kidnapping foreign nationals gain sympathy or support from people around the world?

Maybe try reading beyond the mainstream media and you wouldn't say dumb shit like this. Palestinians want to live in peace. Israel is preventing that. Every state in the world supports the right for a Palestinian state. International laws do. UN Resolutions do. Geneva Conventions allow for the right for armed uprisings for people who are occupied. But Israel won't allow this while lying about wanting peace. It's because Israel is a military outpost for the U.S. Empire in the region.

Your name-calling is unnecessary. I am allowed an opinion on this even if you don't agree with it. Try an explanation or clarify what you mean, instead of attacking me. I am more than willing listen to a good argument demonstrating why you think I am wrong. I never said I was terribly well informed, as I abandoned trying to make sense of Palestine/Israel years ago.

My name calling is entirely apt since you are very silly on this topic and maybe should resist speaking about what you don't know about. If you want to know more, I've placed a lot of info in this thread that provides context but you're too pigheaded to look at it and instead want to argue from a position of ignorance.

Maybe you can start here:

[Godstud]

My response was to your silly notion that they'd even be allowed in Palestine to work given the way Israel controls all aspects of Palestine.

You didn't answer my question because they would take away from the fact that terrorism is terrorism. You AVOID the answer because it's obvious. If Israel had killed foreign nationals in Palestine, you'd be up in arms.

@skinster I may be a clueless shit, but at least I am not an asshole... the latter being a choice.

[skinster]

Short film on the Nakba (the catastrophe) when European settlers terrorised and ethnically-cleansed Palestine in order to make an imperialist and ethnosupremacist colony:

An update from a couple of American Jews.
https://www.youtube.com/live/G-p2bjA2b4 ... Tfw2oxISnY

You didn't answer my question because they would take away from the fact that terrorism is terrorism. You AVOID the answer because it's obvious.

I didn't answer it because it made no sense because Israel doesn't allow immigrant workers into Palestine. As for "terrorism" that comes from the Israeli state.

Palestinians have a right to armed struggle against their occupation, according to international laws.


Anyway, the workers who go to Palestine, an occupied country, to work, shouldn't be surprised if they get hurt while there, since it's an active warzone and that hasn't ended since Palestinians got their country stolen from them 75 years ago. People like you, Godstud, act like this war began last weekend, when last weekend was the first time Palestinians fought back in an organised way.

@skinster I may be a clueless shit, but at least I am not an asshole... the latter being a choice.

That's a matter of perspective. I wouldn't run my mouth over issues I'm ignorant about, I'd recommend the same. No investigation, no right to speak! You must not talk nonsense!

[litwin]

No amount of propaganda will distract from the fact Israelis were right about Hamas: If they let their guard down, they get massacred, and their massacre gets filmed by the perpetrators.

Frauds like Peled, Electronic Intifada, Finkelstein, Blumenthal, etc have always claimed Hamas isn't what it really is, and their opinions are thus not to be taken seriously.

Moscow imperial state TV : Israelis (they call them - the Jews) will soon "return home" - to LVIV (The Western Ukraine ) such BAMBOO- CLOWNS :

[skinster]

This was a great interview giving good context to the history and present, by a political scientist who has dedicated 4 decades on studying Israel/Palestine, has lived in Palestine for some time and wrote a number of books on the topic.