[skinster]

My post was about 1948, not 1977 or onwards.

Can you stop playing stupid, for once?

It's not me playing stupid, that's you. And it's for anyone to see if they scroll up. You're just doing that weird distraction thing now that Zionist hasbara trolls are known for, to distract from the genocide that you defend.

Keep coping.

The lonely Zionist continue to protest too much.

Yes, you are OK with rape and (despite all the feminist talking points) you refuse to believe women when they say they witnesses or were contacted by female victims.

In case you're confused, I don't care what genocide defenders like you think of me. I am merely calling out your lies and the rape accusations that turned out to be bullshit. And why even the NYT retracted a podcast on the subject. For anyone curious, there are enough reports above I've shared that point out that wat0n is just repeating lies like a good little nazi.

You have yet to prove she was paid for her testimony, for starters.

Yes, you say one thing when released and then do a 180 on it two months after you've been signed up to air in a film by an AIPAC (read Israel bootlicker) tool who's also a billionaire and, shady as hell, if you read the reports above.

It's not my fault you are implying Holocaust survivors killed or kidnapped on October 7 deserved it.

Again, I don't care what genocide defenders like you think of me. I would also keep the Holocaust out of your mouth too, since if that was happening today, you'd be here defending that holocaust like you defend the Palestinian holocaust that is being live streamed through all our screens.

[Deutschmania]

The historical connection between Revisionist Zionism and fascism is indisputable . I believe that I have referenced this before , but here are some supporting reference sources , for those interested , who might not be aware of the link between fascism and the Revisionist Zionist Right . As far as my own "Zionism" is concerned , I concur with these early Socialist Zionists . I suppose that such sentiments might be considered post-Zionist , or even anti-Zionist , now of days .

I do not wish to see the realization of Zionism in the form of the new Polish state with Arabs in the position of the Jews and the Jews in the position of the Poles, the ruling people. For me this would be the complete perversion of the Zionist ideal... Our generation has been witness to the fact that nations aspiring to freedom who threw off the yoke of subjugation rushed to place this yoke on the shoulders of others. Over the generations in which we were persecuted and exiled and slaughtered, we learned not only the pain of exile and subjugation, but also contempt for tyranny. Was that only a case of sour grapes? Are we now nurturing the dream of slaves who wish to reign? - Berl Katznelson

Many point out the obstacles which we encounter in our colonization work. Some say that the Turkish law hinders our work, others contend that Palestine is insignificantly small, and still others charge us with the odious crime of wishing to oppress and expel the Arabs from Palestine...
When the waste lands are prepared for colonization, when modern technique is introduced, and when the other obstacles are removed, there will be sufficient land to accommodate both the Jews and the Arabs. Normal relations between the Jews and Arabs will and must prevail.- Ber Borochov

https://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=AwrheagVMOZliiI94UXBGOd_;_ylu=Y29sbwNiZjEEcG9zAzYEdnRpZAMEc2VjA3Ny/RV=2/RE=1709613206/RO=10/RU=https%3a%2f%2fwww.dissentmagazine.org%2fwp-content%2ffiles_mf%2f1391450256d7daniels1.pdf/RK=2/RS=M534zLxf4A0Q9vd97No2wk04o.c- ,

https://www.palestine-studies.org/en/node/38833 ,

https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2022/12/21/netanyahu-is-the-godfather-of-modern-israeli-fascism ,

https://www.palestinechronicle.com/the-mussolini-jabotinsky-connection-the-hidden-roots-of-israel-fascist-past/ ,

https://www.counterpunch.org/2014/02/24/zionism-in-the-age-of-the-dictators/ ,

https://forward.com/opinion/363545/the-disturbing-alliance-between-zionists-and-anti-semites/

[skinster]

The historical connection between Revisionist Zionism and fascism is indisputable . I believe that I have referenced this before , but here are some supporting reference sources , for those interested , who might not be aware of the link between fascism and the Revisionist Zionist Right . As far as my own "Zionism" is concerned , I concur with these early Socialist Zionists . I suppose that such sentiments might be considered post-Zionist , or even anti-Zionist , now of days .

There never was a "Socialist Zionist", that's an oxymoron. Socialists do not and never have supported genocide, ethnic-cleansing, displacement, ethnosupremacy, apartheid etc. That stuff is for fascists.

Hear it from the horse's mouth:

Kibbutz leader confirms movement’s role in establishing and maintaining Israeli apartheid
The kibbutz has long been celebrated by liberals as an example of Israel's socialist pedigree, but movement head Nir Meir says the “first mission” of kibbutzim was “to conquer the land," and today it stands ready to "maintain outposts" by Gaza.

For many years, the kibbutz society in Israel represented the ‘liberal Israel’ people would use to highlight the ‘beautiful Israel’, and many would tell of their experience as volunteers in one of the kibbutzim or another – this includes Bernie Sanders. Of course, kibbutzim were much else than that – they have been central tools in the ethnic cleansing of Palestine from the beginning. Hundreds of these kibbutzes, including Kibbutz Givat Haim Ichud, where I was born and raised, were established upon the ruins of ethnically cleansed Palestinian villages to prevent the return of the Palestinian refugees and create new “facts on the ground.”

For many years, this liberal, leftist image served to mask the systemic destruction the kibbutzim were part of. But now, the masks are falling. In a long interview in Haaretz, the secretary general of the Kibbutz movement, Nir Meir, who has been heading it for nine years, says it’s time to drop that leftist pretense. “The right[wing] is correct”:

“The settlers aren’t wrong. The right is correct: That is the way to seize and hold land, and their claim that, any place we Israelis leave, the Arabs will come in our place, is correct. The right is also correct in its path: It’s by settlement and only by settlement that sovereignty can be imposed. The debate is whether sovereignty should be imposed. The settlements claim that they are the successors to Kibbutz Hanita [on the Lebanon border], because, just as in the Tower and Stockade days [a method of establishing new settlements during the period of the British Mandate], you [need to] conquer hill after hill without consideration for the law and you create facts on the ground. They [the settlers] learned from us how to settle and seize land. The argument with them is not about the way or the method, but about the intention and the goal.”

This is actually very honest. The differences between the West Bank settlers and kibbutzim are cosmetic.

Meir tells how he cooperated with the far right, Religious Zionism Minister of National Missions Orit Strock:

“I cooperated with Orit and with the right also in promoting Jewish settlement in the heart of the Galilee [referring to a law that enables communities of thousands of families to operate admissions committees to filter would-be new residents]. That ran against the politically correct approach that led to a situation in which in the heart of the Galilee, instead of 50 percent Jews and 50 percent Arabs, there would be 85 percent Arabs and only 15 percent Jews. I am very instrumental [in approach], I promote values that I believe in, with everyone who is ready to cooperate. Political correctness is post-Zionist, and I am a Zionist.”

So, Meir tells openly of how the “admissions committees” law, which was expanded last year, is meant to facilitate the apartheid demography. He’s in one mind with the extreme right on this. He’s also “good friends” with the leaders of the West Bank settler movement:

“Pinchas Wallerstein [former head of the Yesha Council of Settlements in the West Bank] is a good friend of mine, and he played an important part in rehabilitating the communities opposite Gaza after Operation Protective Edge [2014]. He is not sectarian, and I esteem him very much.”

Meir doesn’t consider himself a left-winger. “I term myself a person who understands where he is living.”

Peace with the Palestinians?

“There will be no peace with the Palestinians. My opinion changed long before October 7. It’s not the disengagement [2005 Gaza pullout], that failed, it’s Oslo. I don’t tell myself stories.”

Meir opines that kibbutzim have now been turning more clearly right. And I think he’s right about that. The interviewer Meirav Moran asks him: “The kibbutzim across from Gaza were always marked as left-wing on the Israeli political map. Do you reflect their views?”

Meir responds:

“The attitude toward the conflict and its solution is bound to change across the board. Many of the kibbutzniks who experienced October 7 can’t bear to hear Arabic and want to see Gaza erased. They are the new ‘victims of peace.’ Very few of the kibbutzniks whose homes mark the border think today that the people living on the other side are good people. They cannot overcome rationally the emotional experience. The trauma is stronger than their worldview.”

I have indeed heard some of these kibbutzniks and their clearly genocidal advocacy. Meir says it’s many. And these kibbutzniks are connected to the kibbutz society in general. They’re going from leftist to genocidal.

But Meir thinks it’s ok to move right, he’s actually happy to lead that move: “I am happy to go down in history as the person who abrogated the historic alliance between the kibbutz movement and the classic left-wing parties.”

Meir is clear about the historical role of the kibbutz, he says that the “first mission” of kibbutzim was “to conquer the land . . . It’s not by chance that in every place where there was a desire to take over a part of the Land of Israel, kibbutzim were established.”

And he’s clear about wanting to continue this type of mission, he even regards current kibbutzim as “civilian outposts.” “Today, too, the kibbutz is the most effective way to maintain a hundred civilian outposts along the border fence,” he tells Haaretz.

This may be a jaw-dropper for those who believed that kibbutzim in Israel were a manifestation of leftist, socialist equality and harmony, but this has never been the case. Israel is committing genocide in Gaza, and the kibbutz movement is once again mobilizing itself to serve a central role in the Nakba, this time the Nakba of 2023-4. This is not a sudden change of character – the genocidal aspect has been there all along, but it was hiding under a mask. It is about time that the rest of the world also give up its romantic and false hope that the “other Israel” will one day rise from the ashes. There is no other Israel.
https://mondoweiss.net/2024/03/kibbutz- ... apartheid/

[wat0n]

It's not me playing stupid, that's you. And it's for anyone to see if they scroll up. You're just doing that weird distraction thing now that Zionist hasbara trolls are known for, to distract from the genocide that you defend.

Oh, you're not playing stupid? So it was actually unironic?

The lonely Zionist continue to protest too much.

In case you're confused, I don't care what genocide defenders like you think of me. I am merely calling out your lies and the rape accusations that turned out to be bullshit. And why even the NYT retracted a podcast on the subject. For anyone curious, there are enough reports above I've shared that point out that wat0n is just repeating lies like a good little nazi.

It seems even the UN isn't following this "but there are no witnesses or anyone else speaking about mass rape committed by Hamas!" line

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/3/4 ... iolence-un

Yes, you say one thing when released and then do a 180 on it two months after you've been signed up to air in a film by an AIPAC (read Israel bootlicker) tool who's also a billionaire and, shady as hell, if you read the reports above.

Again, you have provided zero evidence of payments or anything of the sort. This just sounds like the typical leftist antisemitic stereotyping.

Again, I don't care what genocide defenders like you think of me. I would also keep the Holocaust out of your mouth too, since if that was happening today, you'd be here defending that holocaust like you defend the Palestinian holocaust that is being live streamed through all our screens.

And still hating in Holocaust survivors, I guess it's not surprising coming from rape supporters.

[skinster]

Zionists(neonazis) when they play victim while defending a live streamed genocide is never not funny.

Actual victims

[wat0n]

Will you finally quit supporting rape, skinster?

I hope you won't now claim the UN is pro-Israel

[skinster]

Yeah, the United Nations that has declared a Palestinian state since the 1940s is totally pro-Palestinians and their state that exists....where? Imagine thinking supporters of Palestine give a shit about the United Nations.

On that note, There are photos of me giving the two fingers outside the U.N. in NYC as well as the U.N. in Geneva. As in, 'fuck off, the UN'.

But that's by the by...

Actual victims instead of fake victims made-up by Zionists. This woman and her two babies and husband were killed by Zionists this weekend.

[wat0n]

Right, the UN only matters when it doesn't ever criticize Hamas and its supporters

[Saeko]

Will you finally quit supporting rape, skinster?

I hope you won't now claim the UN is pro-Israel

You cannot be against rape and for the IDF. If you are not against the arbitrary detention and systematic rape of Palestinian women and girls over the last few decades, you can take your crocodile tears and shove 'em.

[wat0n]

You cannot be against rape and for the IDF. If you are not against the arbitrary detention and systematic rape of Palestinian women and girls over the last few decades, you can take your crocodile tears and shove 'em.

Any allegations of rape must be investigated, I have no issues with that. Yet the same people who will believe any and all allegations of rape committed by Israel refuse to consider allegations of rape committed by Hamas.

The double-standard is evident and shows that, in fact, the pro-Hamas camp is pro-rape.

[skinster]

Since wat0n loves the UN.

You cannot be against rape and for the IDF. If you are not against the arbitrary detention and systematic rape of Palestinian women and girls over the last few decades, you can take your crocodile tears and shove 'em.

Palestinian women who have been detained have reported on the rape they've experienced. So have Palestinian men and boys.


But this is not new. Israelis have been doing this to Palestinians ever since they stole the country. Many of these early terrorists told their tales of rape and murder with glee, as you can see in this clip, from the film Tantura:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?si=2YAyz6db1UxI3SXf

Israeli historian Ilan Pappe speaks about it here:

"crocodile tears" is right, Saeko. wat0n's aim here is to distract from genocide by speaking about rape over and over again, despite there being no evidence for his claims and which repeatedly get debunked. Glad to see more people seeing the wretched Zionists for what they are.

[Saeko]

Any allegations of rape must be investigated,

Ok, great. Then call on the ICC to investigate Hamas. And stop smearing everyone who is against the genocide of Palestinians as "pro-Hamas" and "pro-rape". Your behavior, in this regard, has been utterly, utterly disgusting.

[skinster]

Your behavior, in this regard, has been utterly, utterly disgusting.

This is Zionists for you. He won't even admit a genocide is happening. But again, this is Zionists for you.

I am very glad to see more people are waking up to this flavour of fash.

[wat0n]

Ok, great. Then call on the ICC to investigate Hamas. And stop smearing everyone who is against the genocide of Palestinians as "pro-Hamas" and "pro-rape". Your behavior, in this regard, has been utterly, utterly disgusting.

How can the ICC investigate Hamas?

Will Hamas allow itself to be put on trial?

I think what's actually disgusting is to support rapists. Stop doing that.

[skinster]

As he just skips past the actual rapes of Palestinians...

wat0n is just distracting from genocide, if it isn't clear.

Max Blumenthal says these new claims of rape are using ZAKA as the source, also known as the lying organisation founded by a rapist of both boys and girls, AKA as "Israel's Jeffrey Epstein". More on ZAKA can be read here.


When you're so desperate for rape to occur when it didn't, what kind of person does that make you...

[Saeko]

How can the ICC investigate Hamas?

By going to the scene of the crime and collecting evidence.

Will Hamas allow itself to be put on trial?

If only there was an independent state of Palestine whose government could help with the capture of dangerous international criminals...

I think what's actually disgusting is to support rapists. Stop doing that.

At this point, I have a choice. I can try to explain why repeatedly accusing women of being pro-rape when they are criticizing a genocidal rapist regime is a form of sexual harassment, or... I can say what I really think of wat0n's complete and total moral depravity and then face a 100% chance of being banned. What to do... What to do...? Hmm....

[skinster]

At this point, I have a choice. I can try to explain why repeatedly accusing women of being pro-rape when they are criticizing a genocidal rapist regime is a form of sexual harassment, or... I can say what I really think of wat0n's complete and total moral depravity and then face a 100% chance of being banned. What to do... What to do...? Hmm....

Do what I do and accept that every word that comes from Zionists is a lie, that they are fascists and nothing can save them, because if it could, they wouldn't be Zionists.

His point is to distract. So counter that. With what's happening in Gaza today, which is what he's trying to distract from.

He is seeking to distract from the starvation of children with cries about rape where there was none.

This is what you should be saying, loud and clear. If only because Zionists get hurt by the truth.

[wat0n]

By going to the scene of the crime and collecting evidence.

How can that happen if Hamas doesn't allow it?

If only there was an independent state of Palestine whose government could help with the capture of dangerous international criminals...

How does this government capture Hamas' fighters?

Lebanon is an independent state and it can't capture Hezbollah's fighters even after they killed its own politicians, so this is a relevant question.

At this point, I have a choice. I can try to explain why repeatedly accusing women of being pro-rape when they are criticizing a genocidal rapist regime is a form of sexual harassment, or... I can say what I really think of wat0n's complete and total moral depravity and then face a 100% chance of being banned. What to do... What to do...? Hmm....

The right choice is to stop being pro-rape, if it makes you butthurt to be called out for effectively supporting Hamas' rapes by seeking to deny justice to its victims it is not my problem and I couldn't care less.

Also, that is certainly not sexual harassment but hey, I'm not supporting rapists here.

[skinster]

Max Blumenthal is at the press conference on the "Hamas mass rape" nonsense being pushed by depraved zionists like waton and states:

At presser just now, Patten claims "sexual violence occurred on 7 October," yet concedes:
-"Unfounded and inaccurate forensic evidence" was collected by "untrained volunteer first responders," who were also responsible for "the loss of potentially valuable evidence," referring to ZAKA
-No allegations of sexual violence in Kibbutz Beeri could be verified
-Three major allegations (by ZAKA) were "unfounded"
-No attribution of sexual violence to Hamas or other factions could be made
-She did not meet with any Israeli victims of sexual violence on 10/7, none were made available
-"the alteration of crime scenes" marred her ability to collect info
-"Efforts to collect evidence were beset by...the large number of bodies affected by extensive burn damage." This is yet another indication of the extensive Israeli use of tanks and attack helicopters against Palestinian militants and Israeli citizens according to the Hannibal directive
-She did not conduct an investigation or gather evidence; she merely "collected information"
-Her visit to Israel was the result of "pressure from [Israeli] civil society groups and academia"
source

The Zionists and their rape fantasies are increasingly a shit-show

[skinster]

It gets worse.

(it's worth reading this entire thread to see just the amount of shambles is on display)