US Presidential election 2024 thread. - Page 27 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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Talk about what you've seen in the news today.

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#15307522
late wrote:One of the things you don't understand is American politics.

Republicans have long relied on character attacks, and a number of candidates have lost largely due to them.

Yes, political speeches are boring. I never watch them, I watch the commentary with excerpts. But it wasn't hard to see that Biden has exceeded expectations.

He looked so much better than Trump; there is no contest. That can change, but for right now, all those Right wing digs at Biden have been shown to be lies. It gets worse if you compare him to Trump.

Republicans have been in a losing streak, they need to damage Biden badly, and they failed utterly. The Republican response to the speech made things even worse.

Dems had a very good night...


I understand American politics just fine Late. I think in many objective ways more than you do by far.

Why? Because if you are part of a group that politically is being repressed, threatened, and has government agents assigned to tap your phones, follow you around, and try to undermine your plans for change based on legitimate and democratic frameworks, and the government that is doing that to your group is far more powerful than your group? You better believe you have to know the inside and outside tracks of American politics late.

I speak English, as a native English speaker from California or what is called a mid-Atlantic flat accent. I lived most of my formative years in the USA in various states Late. I read American history very very carefully. But beyond that both my parents were politically active their entire lives. In the USA and in Puerto Rico. You listen to them on a phone call or a recording and they are not foreign sounding at all. They spoke, read and wrote English as native speakers of that language. I do too. So does my immediate family. Not a single foreign note will you detect with me or them. So do not assume because I am Puerto Rican I have zero understanding of it all. I find that patronizing and frankly insulting Late.

I have seen everything possible under the political sun in American politics.

Don't you become patronizing with me Late.

I will never agree with the liberal perspective on American politics. Defending Biden is not my choice of political paths. The socialists in the USA in my honest opinion are a much better choice for combatting the MAGAs. I really think they are. But the liberals in the Democratic party refuse to give them any real power. Why? It is obvious.

Now I know why you ar worried late about why the Democratic party might lose in this election of 2024. And you know it will be aggressive tactics on the Republican side. But it is also an inside job. By the Democrats by allowing those assholes like Sinama and Manchin to have had the gall to stop enormously important reforms to the proposed legislation.

The mistake that I find deadly on the Democratic Party's part is to limit the candidates to Biden only for fear of going too far left and having to lose their lobbyist and special interest sponsors. The same ones paying off the Republicans. They need to be the party of no corporate influence, working people's rights and strong and decisive leftist propositions, not Republican Conservative Light. You are not going to convince those fucking assholes on the Right in the Republican party. It is a cult.

Read the writing on the wall. and take the gloves off, dump the Mafia money from the corporations and the Republican no difference dems like the Manchin fools and such, and get farther to the LEFT. The people in the Democratic party are not that moderate. Even Liz Warren is a radical to many of those sellout Dems dragging shit down to the bottom line sellout people.

If you fail to do that? Your party lost the election. With their failure to be LEFT. Which is working class people first. Families first. Profits are not first. People and society first. And real progress first. Not monied interest and buying and selling and trading stocks behind closed doors and profiting and talking about equality for all when it is about being rich and powerful for your group and being another double talking fake political platform promising far more than what it actually can deliver.

Yes, Trump is far worse. I know that. Not really. If your nation produces fucking cult like fascists by the millions? And you have no idea how it got that way? And I did? Who the fuck knows more about American politics? YOU OR I?
#15307545
In actuality , a great many Americans , according to a poll that yours truly was a participant in , are disgusted with having to have a rematch between Biden and Trump . https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/mar/09/biden-trump-presidential-election-no-one-wants

And as @Tainari88 mentioned , a number of people are coming to speculate that Donald Trump is the Anti-Christ .

https://www.commondreams.org/views/2022/01/11/yes-donald-trump-antichrist

https://metro.co.uk/2016/11/10/people-think-donald-trump-is-the-antichrist-and-hes-bringing-the-apocalypse-6249004/

The key question that remains , in terms of opposition voting , is should there be a broad based popular front , in support of Biden , or would it be better to have an united front , rallying behind Jill Stein or Cornel West ? I feel that if the Electoral College weren't a factor , in which a hand full of states could determine who the president gets to be , in spite of the popular vote nationwide , it would make more sense to favor social populism , over the continuation of long discredited social liberalism , that has failed to work out for the mutual benefit of the general population . Yet , given that Trump has effectively announced his intention to declare war upon me , in the event that he is returned to office , I am genuinely anxious . I think therefore that vote trading may be said to be the most appropriate strategic approach going forward . I as an Ohio resident , would then hold my nose and vote for Biden , while trusting that a substantial number of dissidents in certain other states will vote Green , or Socialist . But now , even more so than in 2016 , a considerable number of staunch progressives are fed up with the Democratic nominee .



#15307546
Cornel West dropped out of the race. He also was on sabbatical and he no longer has an income coming out of the race. He did not get any real monetary support from the Democratic party. Marianne Williamson on her website where she cites the reasons for dropping out of the Democratic nominee race also says the party elite would not consider any other potential strong candidate to run against Joe Biden.

Senator Sanders tried once to run against the Democrat machine and the Clinton wing of the Democratic party shot him down. Afraid of the amount of momentum he got that challenged HRC. Hillary lost in 2016.

They need to realize that voters want some real differences between Trump vs Biden. Biden is establishment to the nth degree. Get rid of the establishment candidates. Obama was pitched as the Candidate for Hope and Change. It was not enough real change in terms of getting rid of corporate payoffs.

The field needs to open up. Otherwise if Trump wins, he is going to do burn the other opposition to the ground and stay in office for life.

Blame yourselves. You refused to adjust in time. Period.
#15307578
Deutschmania wrote:The key question that remains , in terms of opposition voting , is should there be a broad based popular front , in support of Biden , or would it be better to have an united front , rallying behind Jill Stein or Cornel West ?


Neither of these things will happen. Firstly, the Left would not support Biden at this stage and I don't see a world in which that changes between now and November.

Secondly, if there were a United Front, I don't think it would be behind Stein or West, but much more likely the PSL, who recently beat West in the Peace and Freedom Primary in California.
#15307608
Rancid wrote:I think the Trump supporters here are missing a lot of information, and/or focusing on 1, 2 specific things and not understanding the bigger picture. This is what creates supporters of a business fraud. Supporters of a traitor. Supporters of a grifter.

I am convinced that all Trump supporters, even those that casually support him, are basically lying to themselves, selfish, or just not really paying attention to what's at stake (the privileges they have enjoyed have led them to take everything for granted).

We need to kill Trumpism.


Trump supporters see him as an agent of change. They have no notion of what that change should look like exactly, hence Trump's lack of consistent policy positions doesn't matter. The fact that he's hated by the existing "conservative" elites is good enough for them. JSM famously said "not all conservatives are stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives". I would argue that's actually a "smart" (or rather wise) attitude for a stupid person to have.
#15307610
Rugoz wrote:Trump supporters see him as an agent of change. They have no notion of what that change should look like exactly, hence Trump's lack of consistent policy positions doesn't matter. The fact that he's hated by the existing "conservative" elites is good enough for them. JSM famously said "not all conservatives are stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives". I would argue that's actually a "smart" (or rather wise) attitude for a stupid person to have.

Notion of white supremacy is fuelling Trump supporters. Actually conservative elites are also white supremacists but they still support open borders. It is because those people are rich and they make a lot of money on cheap labor.
#15307650
Istanbuller wrote:Notion of white supremacy is fuelling Trump supporters. Actually conservative elites are also white supremacists but they still support open borders. It is because those people are rich and they make a lot of money on cheap labor.


As long as there's demand for illegal labor, there will be illegal immigration. Here's what Trump had to say about E-Verify, a tool to prevent the hiring of illegals:

In an interview with Fox News in May 2019 he said his business tried to use E-Verify when it was building the Trump International Hotel on Pennsylvania Avenue, but it made it too tough to hire people.

“We would go through 28 people — 29, 30 people before we found one that qualified,” he told Fox.

“So it’s a very tough thing to ask a farmer to go through that. So in a certain way, I speak against myself, but you also have to have a world of some practicality,” Mr. Trump said.


https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/20 ... migration/

Meanwhile, the "conservative elitist" Nikki Haley made E-Verify mandatory in her state.

What differentiates Trump from the "conservative elite" is the occasional racist dog whistle. That's why his supporters believe the grifter billionaire is of them.
#15307688
KurtFF8 wrote:Neither of these things will happen. Firstly, the Left would not support Biden at this stage and I don't see a world in which that changes between now and November.

Secondly, if there were a United Front, I don't think it would be behind Stein or West, but much more likely the PSL, who recently beat West in the Peace and Freedom Primary in California.

According to what Jill Stein stated in an interview , with Katie Halper , the Green party has been in talks with the PSL . I feel that the main hurdle for any radical left third party campaign will be ballot access. Like , I have never even seen any PSL candidates on the ballot , here in Ohio. I have however voted for Stein , each time that she ran , and in addition , I had even voted for the Socialist candidate , Dan La Botz . This is the main problem with regards to electoralism . Various miniscule parties undermine each others candidates by running independent of each other , and few if any attain ballot access in all states . And also , I expect that the Green eco-socialism will have more massive popular appeal than the specific Marxism-Leninism of the PSL , which in the public consciousness , will tend to be view as constituting "red fascism" . Plus , as I have referenced before , in the face of the national populism / post-fascism of Trump , even the ideological hard line Revolutionary Communist Party political sect of Bob Avakian had advocated strategic voting for Biden . https://us3.campaign-archive.com/?u=dbba24051877a5ba49ca529f2&id=068c0ff5d5&e=2dde1b6cba So the " left" is certainly not monolithic.

#15307702
Deutschmania wrote:According to what Jill Stein stated in an interview , with Katie Halper , the Green party has been in talks with the PSL . I feel that the main hurdle for any radical left third party campaign will be ballot access. Like , I have never even seen any PSL candidates on the ballot , here in Ohio. I have however voted for Stein , each time that she ran , and in addition , I had even voted for the Socialist candidate , Dan La Botz . This is the main problem with regards to electoralism . Various miniscule parties undermine each others candidates by running independent of each other , and few if any attain ballot access in all states . And also , I expect that the Green eco-socialism will have more massive popular appeal than the specific Marxism-Leninism of the PSL , which in the public consciousness , will tend to be view as constituting "red fascism" . Plus , as I have referenced before , in the face of the national populism / post-fascism of Trump , even the ideological hard line Revolutionary Communist Party political sect of Bob Avakian had advocated strategic voting for Biden . https://us3.campaign-archive.com/?u=dbba24051877a5ba49ca529f2&id=068c0ff5d5&e=2dde1b6cba So the " left" is certainly not monolithic.



I voted for Stein in the past. Ralph Nader and also any real socialist party as well. I would go to meetings in Colorado and many there were white kids with money Deustchmania. They rarely had any real agenda to organize and recruit people.

The reality is you never convince people to vote for you by just rhetoric. The way the Mexican left defeated a total gridlock on a two party system of neoliberalism and elitist bribed out political corrupt freaks? By precisely bringing a bunch of little parties that were fragmented together and then doing an lot of work. MORENA did not get going for real until 2012. What made them take over Mexican politics? On the ground organizing, and doing for the populace. Cleaning old ladies front yards, having recycling programs, feeding people, going and getting a real agenda happening day and night. I do mean hard work. They lost over and over again, but started gaining momentum when they put differences between the PT, the Green Party, and some Liberals and so on, and some hardcore Communists, democratic socialists, and just feminist groups with no real left or right leaning agenda, they even picked up some steam with do gooder conservative religious Virgin of Guadalupe party that wanted some pragmatic down to earth shit accomplished. ALL OF THEM BANDED TOGEtHER. And they KICKED ASS!!

That included gay Mexicans and trans Mexicans too. They went for broke.

Here is how they did it.

Morena.






It is in Spanish. But it is about the rebirth of the Left.

Who are they? A group of Green Party, Partido de los Trabajadores PT, Democratic socialists with some liberals, etc. A bunch of small Lefty parties including Feminists and Gay activist parties. All banded together.

It can be done Deustchmania. But it needs to be something the PEOPLE want. If the people of the USA are confused about which socioeconomic class they belong to and continue to vote for billionaires and neoliberals instead of a third choice? it will not happen. But unless the many small leftist third option parties do not band together and go out and start cutting little ole lady lawns, and picking up trash, and helping tutor kids, and start doing some real work? It won't happen.

You get them all together. Marianne Williamson, PSL, Green Party, Gay activists, Feminists, Labor unionists DSA, and everyone who backs change. Jill Stein and then more money and more work. A lot of work. It will then grow and expand. Especially in urban America and then you hit rural towns. And you go for the rural community people who are Christians and you do Christian socialism. You hit it hard.

it is work. None of it is easy. But the alternative is the Trump cult. You would be surprised how many people might change their minds if given a party who talks to them, and then runs to the grandma's house and cooks her meals and mows her lawn. Lol. It works.
#15307706
The RNC has laid off a bunch of people and replaced them with Trump's picks. Before this, the RNC put in a motion to update their rules that their funds cannot be used for legal fees unrelated to a campaign for a candidate. Unclear if that change in the RNC happened before Trump cleaned house. I don't believe ti did.

The RNC is going to starve down ballot conservatives of funds. This is a good thing. Trump is turning the RNC into a swamp.

I'd imagine big money donations may slow down. Pretty clear this is another Trump grift.


Liz Chaney (sp?), launched a PAC. Basically, it seems like the plumbing for a new conservative party is slowly starting to form. There's stuff at play here in case Trump destroys the Republican party which is a real possibility. Trump is on track to bankrupt the Republican party, as well as hollow it and fill it with conspiracy looneys. All good, but hopefully he doesn't destroy America in the process.

It is amazing that so many Republicans are going along with this. Talk about a suicide pact with Trump.
#15307709
Rancid wrote:The RNC has laid off a bunch of people and replaced them with Trump's picks. Before this, the RNC put in a motion to update their rules that their funds cannot be used for legal fees unrelated to a campaign for a candidate. Unclear if that change in the RNC happened before Trump cleaned house. I don't believe ti did.

The RNC is going to starve down ballot conservatives of funds. This is a good thing. Trump is turning the RNC into a swamp.

I'd imagine big money donations may slow down. Pretty clear this is another Trump grift.


Liz Chaney (sp?), launched a PAC. Basically, it seems like the plumbing for a new conservative party is slowly starting to form. There's stuff at play here in case Trump destroys the Republican party which is a real possibility. Trump is on track to bankrupt the Republican party, as well as hollow it and fill it with conspiracy looneys. All good, but hopefully he doesn't destroy America in the process.

It is amazing that so many Republicans are going along with this. Talk about a suicide pact with Trump.


You know it is the battle of the cult suicide supporters and the back the ole man because there ain't no one else left Billy Bob!

This election sounds like a made-up movie script that is impossible to believe.

#15307710
Tainari88 wrote:
You know it is the battle of the cult suicide supporters and the back the ole man because there ain't no one else left Billy Bob!

This election sounds like a made-up movie script that is impossible to believe.



There was a video like that where they told Trump supporters various things that Biden did, and then asked them if they agreed. Obviously they disagreed with everything. However, then they were told those things were Trump, not Biden (which was true). Then they immediately started to support those things they said were bad.

Yes, a mindless cult.
#15307713
Rancid wrote:There was a video like that where they told Trump supporters various things that Biden did, and then asked them if they agreed. Obviously they disagreed with everything. However, then they were told those things were Trump, not Biden (which was true). Then they immediately started to support those things they said were bad.

Yes, a mindless cult.


How do you cope with mindless cult voting? Dime? I think I know....





The guy is into self-promotion. People fall for it. He is gonna get the cultists all riled up. But is it going to be enough?

I think every time a Trump supporter shows up to vote you just need to do this to them.

They get aggressive and want to keep you from dealing with other voters? You do the Pope Francis move on them. LOL.

#15307715
Tainari88 wrote:They get aggressive and want to keep you from dealing with other voters? You do the Pope Francis move on them. LOL.


lol

Tainari88 wrote:How do you cope with mindless cult voting? Dime? I think I know....


There isn't anything we can do but let the morons ruin it for the rest of us.
#15307718
Rancid wrote:The RNC has laid off a bunch of people and replaced them with Trump's picks. Before this, the RNC put in a motion to update their rules that their funds cannot be used for legal fees unrelated to a campaign for a candidate. Unclear if that change in the RNC happened before Trump cleaned house. I don't believe ti did.

The RNC is going to starve down ballot conservatives of funds. This is a good thing. Trump is turning the RNC into a swamp.

I'd imagine big money donations may slow down. Pretty clear this is another Trump grift.


Liz Chaney (sp?), launched a PAC. Basically, it seems like the plumbing for a new conservative party is slowly starting to form. There's stuff at play here in case Trump destroys the Republican party which is a real possibility. Trump is on track to bankrupt the Republican party, as well as hollow it and fill it with conspiracy looneys. All good, but hopefully he doesn't destroy America in the process.

It is amazing that so many Republicans are going along with this. Talk about a suicide pact with Trump.


You all called me crazy when I wrote about the incoming Civil War in the Republican party back in 2019-2020. Who is the one laughing now?
#15307748
JohnRawls wrote:You all called me crazy when I wrote about the incoming Civil War in the Republican party back in 2019-2020. Who is the one laughing now?


I don't recall if I called you crazy, but I do recall I didn't believe you.

It is still not 100% if enough republicans will break away from Trump's spell though. That said, I believe you more now than before. :) I don't think it's a certainly just yet, but a real possibility now.

Republicans have shown a real stubbornness to stick with Trump. A level of stubbornness that can only be attributed to a low intelligence at this point. IF not low intelligence then low character.

All of that said, there is still possibility he destroys America along with the Republican party.
#15307774
Rancid wrote:I don't recall if I called you crazy, but I do recall I didn't believe you.

It is still not 100% if enough republicans will break away from Trump's spell though. That said, I believe you more now than before. :) I don't think it's a certainly just yet, but a real possibility now.

Republicans have shown a real stubbornness to stick with Trump. A level of stubbornness that can only be attributed to a low intelligence at this point. IF not low intelligence then low character.

All of that said, there is still possibility he destroys America along with the Republican party.


Fair enough.
#15307820
JohnRawls wrote:So who is the candidate to vote then? Biden or Trump? Last time I checked both Democrats and Republicans support Israel, not sure anymore who is the "heavier" supporter.


lol, slave. :lol:

If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal.

There are no good options out of the two wings of the same bird but one option that pisses off all the right people would at least be amusing for me, personally. Otherwise, like I didn't give a single fuck who won in the 2016 election while I was living in the U.S., so too do I not while living outside of it.
#15307834
Donald Trump is unpopular he's got an approval of rating of negative 10.3. Looks like Biden's home and dry.

Oh hang on Biden has got an incy wincy problem. His approval rating is negative 17.3.
#15307835
Rancid wrote:Republicans have shown a real stubbornness to stick with Trump. A level of stubbornness that can only be attributed to a low intelligence at this point. IF not low intelligence then low character.


You're an American living in Texas. I imagine you know lots of people who voted or plan to vote for Trump. :)
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