[Rancid]

You're an American living in Texas. I imagine you know lots of people who voted or plan to vote for Trump.

I'm in Austin, so while we do have a lot of MAGAs here, it's really nothing compared to the rest of the state.

[Tainari88]

I'm in Austin, so while we do have a lot of MAGAs here, it's really nothing compared to the rest of the state.

You just need to feed this video to every Texan day and night for months. De Niro does not beat around the bush about Trump. Dump on Trump. Those Texas rednecks need to be told how smelly their candidate is. LOL.

Just have some Trump-hating New Yorker like Robert De Niro tell them over and over again, he is a fucking moron! That will rile them up, and they will go and vote for him to thumb their nose at those lousy New York City slickers. Lol. Backlash ol redneck dummies. Austin man doesn't like Trump....who is that man? Rancid with the Penis Campaign!

[JohnRawls]

lol, slave.

If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal.

There are no good options out of the two wings of the same bird but one option that pisses off all the right people would at least be amusing for me, personally. Otherwise, like I didn't give a single fuck who won in the 2016 election while I was living in the U.S., so too do I not while living outside of it.

That is why you are a looser that doesn't elect anyone that serves your ideas. You just don't vote on mass and then whine that system doesn't work for you.

If you compare yourself to the MAGA crowd then at least they understand the importance of voting.

Hence as crazy as your ideas are, you are not a threat if you don't vote.

[late]

David Cay Johnston is a Pulitzer reporter that has been reporting on Trump since the 90s. He was also a tax and business prof.. He's written 3 books on Trump. The first one is worth reading because a shallow, mentally ill crook like Trump would not have had a chance to become president in an earlier age.

[Rancid]

You just need to feed this video to every Texan day and night for months. De Niro does not beat around the bush about Trump. Dump on Trump. Those Texas rednecks need to be told how smelly their candidate is. LOL.

Just have some Trump-hating New Yorker like Robert De Niro tell them over and over again, he is a fucking moron! That will rile them up, and they will go and vote for him to thumb their nose at those lousy New York City slickers. Lol. Backlash ol redneck dummies. Austin man doesn't like Trump....who is that man? Rancid with the Penis Campaign!

Did I tell you about the old folks two blocks away from me? The old man had a Trump flag high up on a flag pole through the Trump presidency. He kept it flying after Biden took office, but once Trump started getting indicted with criminal charges, I noticed the flag disappeared. He came to his senses, so that's a good thing.

That is why you are a looser that doesn't elect anyone that serves your ideas. You just don't vote on mass and then whine that system doesn't work for you.

If you compare yourself to the MAGA crowd then at least they understand the importance of voting.

Hence as crazy as your ideas are, you are not a threat if you don't vote.

Voting isn't the only thing needed for change to happen, but it is a key component.

The idea that "voting changes nothing" is indeed foolish, futile, and lazy. This position is popular among people that spend a lot of time on the internet. Both left and right. I think it comes from a place where the world is too complex for them to handle, so they need to create an (over) simplification. However, that simplification is not enough, because these people also have a desire to signal that they are smarter than the normies. Thus, they believe themselves to be enlightened while parroting internet meme's and the propaganda bots of various nations in contradiction to this self-believed enlightenment.

So, how does one of these types of people "prove" they are "above the establishment"? They take the easy position of just rejecting it all because you don't have to think about it much after that, at the same time, they liken themselves as some sort of revolutionary freedom fighters. As I said, both the left and right do this. On the right, it's the red pill, fake tough guy, MAGA bullshit. On the left, it's ignoring the incremental progressive gains that have occurred over the centuries, ignoring tools like voting, and myopically focusing on a few things with little thought towards the complexities of these issues and the world at large. The frustration and dissatisfaction is often real and valid (who wants to see children staving in Gaza for example?), so there's moral fiber (at least on the surface) they can certainly stand on and should be lauded (the far right, has no moral fiber). However, the approach to righting these things is just so out of touch with reality and actually works counter to their goals.

The "reject it all" stance is more effective for the right,because by the very nature of right wing ideologies, the idea is to stop/slow/reverse any change/progress. Thus, rejection of everything by default can serve their cause. However, for the left, this is not so. To gain progress, change must be made, however in practices it cannot be done via vast sweeping actions in a short period of time. This would up upend/uproot all sorts of social and economic structures (will create more chaos than it seeks to fix/prevent... The road to hell is paved by good intentions.... as they say). This type of person might not give a shit about that, but the normie masses do, and that's the immovable brick wall they will continue to crash into and fail. As a result, the far left is doomed to fail with this position. In some cases, the right plays the left on this to the benefit of the right.

A perfect example is there is a right wing effort to continue to push this idea in order to get Trump elected. Right wing blacks even saying "they are both exactly the same, so don't vote!". Which, clearly isn't true if you pay attention to the various laws being passed/promoted around the nation by MAGA. However, there are leftist that parrot this on behalf of the right as we can clearly see. In this case, if the right gets its way, the left will be further set back if Trump is elected. It's amazing these enlightened leftists don't see how they are getting played. Maybe they aren't much better than the normies.

It's like the far left doesn't understand how easily they are getting played by the right sometimes. The "reject everything" position simply doesn't work as a leftist position. Hence, they are doomed to be losers as you say.

[Tainari88]

@Rancid I am getting ready to go and cook breakfast. I have always voted. Why? Because if you think democracy is a system that is leftist you participate in it. Before this republican form of governance there used to be Monarchies. The masses were subjects of the King and Queen and their courts in Europe. They went through religious wars and wars over money and so on. Over power above all. Some King wanted another King's land or routes for trade or some bullshit thing they valued. So they sent out their subjects like pawns on a chessboard to fight for them. What happens to pawns if you ignore their forward movement while you are constantly fighting and looking out and strategizing on how to stop the rooks, and the bishops and the Queen and her knights eh? The pawn makes it to the last line and turns into a real force. That is what democratic voting is about in representative democracies.

I am a backer of Richard Wolff's economic plans for modern economies. He is a Marxist not a neoliberal. What does he say has to happen to improve the lack of power many working class and middle class people suffer through these neoliberal plutocratic setups that we are suffering from? Where a CEO has more wealth than huge amounts of average workers? You solve that problem by democratizing the workplace. If everyone who worked for a living were invested in the place they worked at and were partners and it was about being totally responsible for output, investment, work production, results and YOU as a partner had to vote and keep voting along with others. Meetings with coworkers all the time, trying to reach consensus and talking it out. Pounding out the differences until consensus is reached. Then? If it fails it fails. Everyone has to take responsibility for the failures and move on. But if it works? And it is prosperous? As a group everyone benefits. STABILITY: And finally a system that will perpetuate equality and stability always. Not exclusive rights and inequality which is what the capitalist model is about. So democracy is truly LEFTIST.

The problem becomes when democracy is co-opted by some billionaires and special interest groups and lobbyists for corporations who limit access of the masses to their reps and senators and others. Excluded and locked out for life. Only the wealthy and powerful and FEW have access. It is monarchical government shit from a blast from the past again. The inherited wealth bluebloods only make the decisions. Most of members of congress and the senate are multi millionaires. Not ordinary workers. In true democracies the reps have to be ordinary people making working and middle class salaries if that is what the majority are doing in society. But that is not the case because the system is inherently distorted and has been for a long time.

That is why Skins there thinks it is all bullshit. Because in praxis now? It is.Will it always be that way though? I do not think so. Got to work on what is keeping the democracy so stale and so useless for a change. The vote does do an important function. It keeps the idea of the people being charge. Not an elite.

Any society that the majority are indifferent or only an elite get to make major decisions for all is doomed to fail.

But democracy is innately leftist. That is reality. The issue becomes if the group that is a minority and has a minority of the popular vote keeps seizing power and denying rights to the rest. That happens because the US system is FLAWED. And both parties are benefiting from it. So neither wants it to change.

The people have choices to explore the change. But sitting on your ass and your hands and never voting or working on it? Is not the solution.

However being conformist and thinking Biden and his establishment formulas are gonna cure what is wrong with American politics today? Is an error. He can't fix it.

That is when the people and revolutionary movements are vital forces for change.

Rancid, the reality is that change in human history has never been done in incremental steps. They are like genetic mutations. If you study genes the mutations show up once in a while in genetic change. The definition of a mutation:

The mistakes happen, and because they happen? Change happens. Then BAM.....the society shifts. That is what happens. The substitution of one formula for political action for another one.

In human political life the mutation is often SUDDEN. And it is a social movement. A political movement. Pressure and environment and context. You deal with that in political science.

And eventually the Leftist concept of a government for the people, by the people happens. The issue is that capitalist economics is not a government for the people and by the people. It is about owners and nonowners. And pitting conflicting classes of people workers vs owners of the means of production.

With new forms of manifesting capitalist structures you have new forms of the clash in capitalist models. But in the end the basic premise of profits above people never changes.

So? The structure of the Leftist concept in the US Constitution meets the wall of the exclusive rights problem with the Capitalist economic globalist model. Will this be evergreen and unchanging over human history for all time? People like JohnRawls might believe this to be the case. It is not. That model is going to create tension between workers all over the world and joblessness and so on, and not enough jobs, etc, crime, etc, and the masses flee for borders of nations that have better economic prospects. It has fallout. Constantly.

But? The resolution is there in everyone's face. Democratize the entire workplaces of all modern nations. Make the workers the owners of their own work and labor. And never have capitalist owner messing with everyone's votes via corruption and exclusion. Buying off the political class. Got to make that impossible for them to do.

Is it going to require a long time and hard work? I think climate change issues are going to speed up the ousting of the intransigent 1%. It is simply unsustainable. And the people are going to have to come together and be responsible for their own local government, and state government and national governments. Letting the narcissistic power drunk freaks take over with lies about being working people when they are the farthest from it in the world? Is bound to happen.

The far Left jobs are to pressure with harshness and the other leftists it is going to be organizing with efficiency. Fighting among ourselves will never get the goal accomplished. In that I agree with Rancid. Divide and conquer works.

The Republican Party is going to be divided. And it will face dissolving forever. But that is what happens when you fail to compromise within. The Democratic Party is fracturing as well under the pressure. The reason for the fractures in both parties has to do with something simple. Neither are responding to the original purpose of forming the parties. They are being pulled in an undemocratic direction. Corrupt and useless. You lose your main goal of representing the people who compose your constituency? You have nothing to do there but get paid off and not get anything accomplished for the commoners. You are back to the King and Queen shit model that failed centuries ago.

You have a repeat of the French Revolution eventually. Lol.

[Deutschmania]

I voted for Stein in the past. Ralph Nader and also any real socialist party as well. I would go to meetings in Colorado and many there were white kids with money Deustchmania. They rarely had any real agenda to organize and recruit people.

The reality is you never convince people to vote for you by just rhetoric. The way the Mexican left defeated a total gridlock on a two party system of neoliberalism and elitist bribed out political corrupt freaks? By precisely bringing a bunch of little parties that were fragmented together and then doing an lot of work. MORENA did not get going for real until 2012. What made them take over Mexican politics? On the ground organizing, and doing for the populace. Cleaning old ladies front yards, having recycling programs, feeding people, going and getting a real agenda happening day and night. I do mean hard work. They lost over and over again, but started gaining momentum when they put differences between the PT, the Green Party, and some Liberals and so on, and some hardcore Communists, democratic socialists, and just feminist groups with no real left or right leaning agenda, they even picked up some steam with do gooder conservative religious Virgin of Guadalupe party that wanted some pragmatic down to earth shit accomplished. ALL OF THEM BANDED TOGEtHER. And they KICKED ASS!!

That included gay Mexicans and trans Mexicans too. They went for broke.

Here is how they did it.

Morena.

It is in Spanish. But it is about the rebirth of the Left.

Who are they? A group of Green Party, Partido de los Trabajadores PT, Democratic socialists with some liberals, etc. A bunch of small Lefty parties including Feminists and Gay activist parties. All banded together.

It can be done Deustchmania. But it needs to be something the PEOPLE want. If the people of the USA are confused about which socioeconomic class they belong to and continue to vote for billionaires and neoliberals instead of a third choice? it will not happen. But unless the many small leftist third option parties do not band together and go out and start cutting little ole lady lawns, and picking up trash, and helping tutor kids, and start doing some real work? It won't happen.

You get them all together. Marianne Williamson, PSL, Green Party, Gay activists, Feminists, Labor unionists DSA, and everyone who backs change. Jill Stein and then more money and more work. A lot of work. It will then grow and expand. Especially in urban America and then you hit rural towns. And you go for the rural community people who are Christians and you do Christian socialism. You hit it hard.

it is work. None of it is easy. But the alternative is the Trump cult. You would be surprised how many people might change their minds if given a party who talks to them, and then runs to the grandma's house and cooks her meals and mows her lawn. Lol. It works.

And that would be a united front coalition of parties . I am not sure though how that might work , as the United States is not like most other countries , as it has a first past the post , winner takes all system of voting , plus for presidential elections , something called an electoral college . Also , many states don't allow for fusion candidate voting . https://protectdemocracy.org/work/fusion-voting-explained/

[Tainari88]

@Deutschmania the issues are problematic in the USA in terms of change. Mostly I think because people know something is fishy and not working. But they keep wanting to scapegoat the wrong people. The immigrants, the liberals who are gay, the anti gun lobby activists, the pro choice people killing babies in the womb hysteria. the people who want to cut their penises off and become women. The Blacks who say their lives matter more than white redneck lives...etc.

None of them really want to accept that it is precisely the globalists, bankers who invest in neoliberalism and policies of neoliberalism, and capitalist geopolitical strategies all over the world.

They do not target those people. Why? Take your pick, the media lies a lot or fake media, which means they never criticize the corporate mogul owners of ABC, CBS, Disney, WB and a couple of other ones running around. All owned by people who will never tell the masses that the ones to blame are the ones who control the media and the senate and the house and who love cheap immigrant labor and won't enforce E verify, and who are hypocrites, and who peddle pharmaceutical drug ads on TV, who pass Citizens United legislation, Run huge banks that give out huge loans to corrupt liars in real estate like Donald Trump.

None of them want to confront the failure of a system that they have been told their entire lives is PERFECT.

[JohnRawls]

Did I tell you about the old folks two blocks away from me? The old man had a Trump flag high up on a flag pole through the Trump presidency. He kept it flying after Biden took office, but once Trump started getting indicted with criminal charges, I noticed the flag disappeared. He came to his senses, so that's a good thing.



Voting isn't the only thing needed for change to happen, but it is a key component.

The idea that "voting changes nothing" is indeed foolish, futile, and lazy. This position is popular among people that spend a lot of time on the internet. Both left and right. I think it comes from a place where the world is too complex for them to handle, so they need to create an (over) simplification. However, that simplification is not enough, because these people also have a desire to signal that they are smarter than the normies. Thus, they believe themselves to be enlightened while parroting internet meme's and the propaganda bots of various nations in contradiction to this self-believed enlightenment.

So, how does one of these types of people "prove" they are "above the establishment"? They take the easy position of just rejecting it all because you don't have to think about it much after that, at the same time, they liken themselves as some sort of revolutionary freedom fighters. As I said, both the left and right do this. On the right, it's the red pill, fake tough guy, MAGA bullshit. On the left, it's ignoring the incremental progressive gains that have occurred over the centuries, ignoring tools like voting, and myopically focusing on a few things with little thought towards the complexities of these issues and the world at large. The frustration and dissatisfaction is often real and valid (who wants to see children staving in Gaza for example?), so there's moral fiber (at least on the surface) they can certainly stand on and should be lauded (the far right, has no moral fiber). However, the approach to righting these things is just so out of touch with reality and actually works counter to their goals.

The "reject it all" stance is more effective for the right,because by the very nature of right wing ideologies, the idea is to stop/slow/reverse any change/progress. Thus, rejection of everything by default can serve their cause. However, for the left, this is not so. To gain progress, change must be made, however in practices it cannot be done via vast sweeping actions in a short period of time. This would up upend/uproot all sorts of social and economic structures (will create more chaos than it seeks to fix/prevent... The road to hell is paved by good intentions.... as they say). This type of person might not give a shit about that, but the normie masses do, and that's the immovable brick wall they will continue to crash into and fail. As a result, the far left is doomed to fail with this position. In some cases, the right plays the left on this to the benefit of the right.

A perfect example is there is a right wing effort to continue to push this idea in order to get Trump elected. Right wing blacks even saying "they are both exactly the same, so don't vote!". Which, clearly isn't true if you pay attention to the various laws being passed/promoted around the nation by MAGA. However, there are leftist that parrot this on behalf of the right as we can clearly see. In this case, if the right gets its way, the left will be further set back if Trump is elected. It's amazing these enlightened leftists don't see how they are getting played. Maybe they aren't much better than the normies.

It's like the far left doesn't understand how easily they are getting played by the right sometimes. The "reject everything" position simply doesn't work as a leftist position. Hence, they are doomed to be losers as you say.

Absolutely correct. And in here lies the inherent absolute strength of the Western Model that we are ever evolving, ever changing, adapting to the needs of the time irrelevant of ideology or the climate around or time. As long as the feedback loop is there along with democracy and possibility of change we will adapt. Sometimes slower, sometimes faster. As long as the loop and process is not broken, we will prevail.

This doesn't mean that the loop can't be broken, it certainly can. But it is not possible to break the loop everywhere at the same time in every country. Even if US falls then there still be Europe and the other way around. If Europe and US fall then there are still others that will advance forward and leave others behind.

This doesn't mean that we don't need to defend what we got. It just means that over a very long period of time, victory is almost a certainty in my opinion. Fukujama was both right and wrong in this regard. History has not ended but given enough time it surely will.

[Tainari88]

Absolutely correct. And in here lies the inherent absolute strength of the Western Model that we are ever evolving, ever changing, adapting to the needs of the time irrelevant of ideology or the climate around or time. As long as the feedback loop is there along with democracy and possibility of change we will adapt. Sometimes slower, sometimes faster. As long as the loop and process is not broken, we will prevail.

This doesn't mean that the loop can't be broken, it certainly can. But it is not possible to break the loop everywhere at the same time in every country. Even if US falls then there still be Europe and the other way around. If Europe and US fall then there are still others that will advance forward and leave others behind.

This doesn't mean that we don't need to defend what we got. It just means that over a very long period of time, victory is almost a certainty in my opinion. Fukujama was both right and wrong in this regard. History has not ended but given enough time it surely will.

I am not convinced you and Rancid have the same world views. Lol. He does not think like you in very critical ways.

And you need to start seeing Estonia like I do Puerto Rico. Small and tiny nations, with nice people, and the goal is to accept that you will never be a superpower. Just a peaceful place pursuing humane politics and policies that benefit the most Estonians or Puerto Ricans. We still do not have independence. Stuck in limbo with colonialism. All three political parties in Puerto Rico that are the main parties agree only on that. That the colonial situation is not working at all. That is our consensus. That the US government will be able to give us some change? I doubt it.

I have no illusions about it. Simply because, the same way the Estonians have had to cope with the Russians in history being abusive century after century? The little islands in the Caribbean had to deal with European powers and USA imperialism dictating shit from afar and never doing what is right. People do not trust that anymore.

But you want to think that the USA is the good guy John. It is not.

You are dealing with a complex species. It is never that simple. The answer is diversity in thought and hammering it all out with respect. The other stuff that is authoritarian and wanting war? Is just a really bad alternative. But enough people lose their lives? You can bet they will get the message that war is too expensive for everyone. And close down the shop.

That is how the UN was founded. A bunch of nations post WWII who never wanted to have to go through that nightmare again. But? The same stupid value system that started WWII is now starting up again.

That is the truth of it.

Humanity needs to let the Nukes Rust Out. That should be a slogan. Rust Out the Nukes. Blow them Up in Space. We want to Win the Race. For life and liberty and justice for ALL OF US. Not just the ones who want to be dominant only. But the ones who are from tiny nations.

I like tiny nations. I come from one. So should you. But? You are in love with John Wayne shit and American propaganda. It is a mistake. Hee hee.

[Rich]

That is how the UN was founded. A bunch of nations post WWII who never wanted to have to go through that nightmare again.

Sorry but no. The UN was founded as a way that Roosevelt and America could rule the world. Churchill and Stalin being dependent on American lend lease both had to humour Roosevelt. The original idea was for there to be four permanent security members with China being the fourth in effect giving the US a second vote. Many of the current members were part of the British and French empires at the time, so through the US's domination of the Americas Roosevelt expected to be able to control the General Assembly as well. New York was chosen as its venues in order to maximise Jewish power over the UN, allowing Zionists to physically threaten the UN delegates and their families.

But? The same stupid value system that started WWII is now starting up again.

When exactly was the old value system suspended? There seems to be this illusion that the end of the fighting for the western powers at the end of both WW1 and WW2 meant peace for everyone else in the world. The late 1940s, the 1950s and the 1960s were to see an orgy of war and violence across many parts of the world. We in Britain were lucky. We had wars in Greece, Korea, Cyprus, Malaya, Kenya and Aden to keep us busy while we waited for things to kick off again in Northern Ireland.

[QatzelOk]

So who is the candidate to vote then? Biden or Trump? Last time I checked both Democrats and Republicans support Israel, not sure anymore who is the "heavier" supporter.

It's true that both of the AIPAC-screened current candidates are Israel-firsters.

They are also both 1%-firsters.

Luckily, the American voter is a braindead media-MK ULtra-wiped ignoramus who will vote the way the propaganda that he watches makes him "feel" like voting.

The lack of real choice in the next election... is because of "the system."

Here is an article in French, where PM Trudeau says that, even though he feels like quitting every day, he stays on and fights the brave fight because "democracies are threatened by extreme populism."

...Les démocraties sont tellement sous attaque à travers le monde avec du populisme extrême...

What he is saying is that "democracies" have to avoid listening to the people who live in them. Interesting way to re-define "democracy," but the USA has really defined what the word means for most of my lifetime.

[JohnRawls]

It's true that both of the AIPAC-screened current candidates are Israel-firsters.

They are also both 1%-firsters.

Luckily, the American voter is a braindead media-MK ULtra-wiped ignoramus who will vote the way the propaganda that he watches makes him "feel" like voting.

The lack of real choice in the next election... is because of "the system."

Here is an article in French, where PM Trudeau says that, even though he feels like quitting every day, he stays on and fights the brave fight because "democracies are threatened by extreme populism."


What he is saying is that "democracies" have to avoid listening to the people who live in them. Interesting way to re-define "democracy," but the USA has really defined what the word means for most of my lifetime.

The Jaws are watching you Qatz, they are under your bed.

[Rancid]

The Jaws are watching you Qatz, they are under your bed.

[RealPolitic]

Today's Republican party is not the party of Ronald Reagan. Reagan must be rolling in his grave right now seeing the current state of the Republican party. Today's Republican party rejects the values of freedom and democracy and favors populism and authoritarianism, which is very dangerous. Authoritarian regimes rarely bring long term prosperity and stability that people need. Authoritarian leaders rise on a platform of grievances.

To fight this authoritarian trend in the Republican party, we must elect leaders who embrace, practice, and implement the values of freedom and democracy and are serious about combating economic inequality and genuinely assuring equal opportunity for minorities as well as white caucasians at the same time. Minority groups, immigrants and African Americans cannot be left out of the equation of equal opportunity and they have skills that are important to our economy too. They need access to education and good paying jobs as well.

[Rancid]

Today's Republican party is not the party of Ronald Reagan. Reagan must be rolling in his grave right now seeing the current state of the Republican party. Today's Republican party rejects the values of freedom and democracy and favors populism and authoritarianism, which is very dangerous. Authoritarian regimes rarely bring long term prosperity and stability that people need. Authoritarian leaders rise on a platform of grievances.

To fight this authoritarian trend in the Republican party, we must elect leaders who embrace, practice, and implement the values of freedom and democracy and are serious about combating economic inequality and genuinely assuring equal opportunity for minorities as well as white caucasians at the same time. Minority groups, immigrants and African Americans cannot be left out of the equation of equal opportunity and they have skills that are important to our economy too. They need access to education and good paying jobs as well.

Yes, but what we see today is also in part because of the cultural shift within the Republican Party that Reagan started/promoted.

The so called 11th commandment of "Thou shall not speak ill of another Republican" is rooted in Reagan. This created a culture of solidarity in the party. However, over the decades, it cemented itself as a culture of stubbornness to let go of bad ideas and policies. I think there is a through-line from this commandment getting established in the 1980s through today. This is one of the reasons Republicans are still sticking with Trump even when they know he's bad for the party. It's this stubborn "stick with the clan" culture that has been baked into the part the last few decades. It's hard to shake it off and actually think a little. This served them VERY VERY VERY well previously, however, now the risk of this approach is getting realized. This is all fine and good, but the problem is, when we have a two party system, and that party has a lot of power/influence. When that party fails, it could cause the country to fail. Hence why I hope this Republican civil war that is brewing doesn't bring down the whole country.

Another point:

Reagan was the Republican that started to court and pull in the god fearing evangelical crowd (unclear if it was his idea or his advisors, but that part doesn't matter). A lot of the far right anti-civil rights tendencies comes from this segment of the Republican party. A segment that even though in decline in terms of numbers in the US, is wielding disproportionate power on a per person basis thanks to money and social media propaganda. Another seed planted by Reagan and the party of that time.

To a large degree, this is a monster that got its roots back in the 1980s. It was always a precarious approach for the party to take. All it would take is one ego-maniacal psychopathic wanna be dictator to start exploiting these cultural features of the party... We got that with Trump.

[Deutschmania]

Yes, but what we see today is also in part because of the cultural shift within the Republican Party that Reagan started/promoted.

The so called 11th commandment of "Thou shall not speak ill of another Republican" is rooted in Reagan. This created a culture of solidarity in the party. However, over the decades, it cemented itself as a culture of stubbornness to let go of bad ideas and policies. I think there is a through-line from this commandment getting established in the 1980s through today. This is one of the reasons Republicans are still sticking with Trump even when they know he's bad for the party. It's this stubborn "stick with the clan" culture that has been baked into the part the last few decades. It's hard to shake it off and actually think a little. This served them VERY VERY VERY well previously, however, now the risk of this approach is getting realized. This is all fine and good, but the problem is, when we have a two party system, and that party has a lot of power/influence. When that party fails, it could cause the country to fail. Hence why I hope this Republican civil war that is brewing doesn't bring down the whole country.

Another point:

Reagan was the Republican that started to court and pull in the god fearing evangelical crowd (unclear if it was his idea or his advisors, but that part doesn't matter). A lot of the far right anti-civil rights tendencies comes from this segment of the Republican party. A segment that even though in decline in terms of numbers in the US, is wielding disproportionate power on a per person basis thanks to money and social media propaganda. Another seed planted by Reagan and the party of that time.

To a large degree, this is a monster that got its roots back in the 1980s. It was always a precarious approach for the party to take. All it would take is one ego-maniacal psychopathic wanna be dictator to start exploiting these cultural features of the party... We got that with Trump.

Oh , but the so called 11th commandment doesn't really apply to the primary elections . And more than just casually falling in line behind Trump , as being at least a lesser evil , largely in opposition to abortion , which a large number of Christian Republicans consider to be the moral equivalent to murder , it has now gone to unequivocal support for Trump , and voting against any candidates who are not favored by him . From what I have myself noticed first hand , Hannah Arendt , and Barry Goldwater respectively , were correct .

[Tainari88]

Oh , but the so called 11th commandment doesn't really apply to the primary elections . And more than just casually falling in line behind Trump , as being at least a lesser evil , largely in opposition to abortion , which a large number of Christian Republicans consider to be the moral equivalent to murder , it has now gone to unequivocal support for Trump , and voting against any candidates who are not favored by him . From what I have myself noticed first hand , Hannah Arendt , and Barry Goldwater respectively , were correct .

That is why mixing religion with politics is a toxic mixture.

And why I can't vote for the lesser of two evils. It is still voting for evil.

I am not going to do that. Let other people take the karma of voting for warmongering neoliberals because they are a little less crazy than narcissistic dictator wannabes. They should be focusing on getting sane candidates who reject all the crap that leads to evil. But no....two party gridlock. I already explained that that two party gridlock shit is fairly common in political life in other nations. How does it get broken? I explained it.

You do not want to do the work involved and the confrontational stuff and hard work, and losses and back to the drawing board, and hitting the streets and the knocking on doors and the marches and the etc. You want to hope to hell that shit goes away on its own? It does not go away on its own folks.

It is hard work and sweat and talking and organizing. The alternative is giving up and letting the MAGAs and Evangelical Rapture folks force everyone into a NYC conman dictatorship because God placed him there to make sure the homosexuals, liberals and infidels are punished and God is gonna throw down some lightning bolts like Zeus from Mt Olympus on these SINNERS. And make sure decent WASP people run the show in the USA for the next two hundred years. Throw a bomb on the chinks and the russkies and the darkies and the so on....and life is better for the rednecks.

They are dangerous demagogues with zero understanding of compromise or political diplomacy. For them, the world is good vs bad shit and there does not exist shades of gray or any real understanding that thinking everyone is going to be a Southern Baptist Christian like Bill Clinton, or a Methodist like George W. Bush, Jr. or some version of a politician that is like Billy Graham? Is for people with zero understanding of what secular politics is about. The US Constitution separated the church from the state because religious wars destroy entire nations in incessant wars. That the Evangelists are not understanding which means they are not analytical people and ignorant about their own foundational documents.

I am not surprised. Ignorant people are what bring down entire civilizations if they are not critical thinkers and the US has always disdained the intellectual class. They see them as too leftist for their taste.

[Rancid]

Oh , but the so called 11th commandment doesn't really apply to the primary elections .

Sure, but we are seeing the ill speaking (and scheming) outside of primaries too.

Yes, Barry GOldwater was right.. that said, wasn't he a dickhead asshole too?

Then again, a broken clock.....

[Tainari88]

Sure, but we are seeing the ill speaking (and scheming) outside of primaries too.

Rancid think about it. The MAGA Morons are gonna think about this.