[sokath]

Source: CBC News Online
URL: http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2003/03/31/checkpoint_030331

Text

U.S. troops kill at least seven women, children
Last Updated Mon, 31 Mar 2003 21:40:03
AN NAJAF - U.S. troops opened fire on a van at a checkpoint in southern Iraq Monday, killing at least seven Iraqi civilians, some of them children.


INDEPTH: Iraq

The U.S. Central Command says the soldiers started shooting when the driver refused an order to stop.

FROM MARCH 29, 2003: Suicide attacks will continue: Iraq

A statement by the Central Command says 13 women and children were in the vehicle, but a report by the Washington Post says there 15 people in the van and 10 were killed, including five children.

The military says two others were wounded and four were unharmed in the incident, which comes two days after four U.S. soldiers were killed by a suicide bomber driving a taxi.

The incident occurred around 4:30 p.m. local time.

"Soldiers manning the checkpoint motioned for the vehicle to stop, but were ignored by the driver," U.S. Central Command said in a news release.

The soldiers then fired warning shots, which were ignored, and then fired into the engine compartment. They finally fired into the passenger compartment as a last resort, it said.

"Initial reports indicated the soldiers responded in accordance with the rules of engagement to protect themselves," the release said.

The incident took place at An Najaf, a town on the Euphrates River about 120 kilometres south of Baghdad. It is one of the most spiritually important places in the Shiite branch of the Islamic faith.

Good old US, can always count on them to make themselves MORE enemies!

S./

[ahab]

A Washington Post reporter is embedded with the unit that did that, and was the first to break it, and is probably the best article, here's an excerpt describing the incident:

As an unidentified four-wheel drive vehicle came barreling toward an intersection held by troops of the Army's 3rd Infantry Division, Capt. Ronny Johnson grew increasingly alarmed. From his position at the intersection, he was heard radioing to one of his forward platoons of M2 Bradley Fighting Vehicles to alert it to what he described as a potential threat.

"Fire a warning shot," he ordered as the vehicle kept coming. Then, with increasing urgency, he told the platoon to shoot a 7.62mm machine-gun round into its radiator. "Stop [messing] around!" Johnson yelled into the company radio network when he still saw no action being taken. Finally, he shouted at the top of his voice, "Stop him, Red 1, stop him!"

That order was immediately followed by the loud reports of 25mm cannon fire from one or more of the platoon's Bradleys. About half a dozen shots were heard in all.

"Cease fire!" Johnson yelled over the radio. Then, as he peered into his binoculars from the intersection on Highway 9, he roared at the platoon leader, "You just [expletive] killed a family because you didn't fire a warning shot soon enough!"

So it was that on a warm, hazy day in central Iraq, the fog of war descended on Bravo Company.

Fifteen Iraqi civilians were packed inside the Toyota, it turned out, along with as many of their possessions as the jammed vehicle could hold. Ten of them, including five children who appeared to be under 5 years old, were killed on the spot when the high-explosive rounds slammed into their target, Johnson's company reported. Of the five others, one man was so severely injured that medics said he was not expected to live.

"It was the most horrible thing I've ever seen, and I hope I never see it again," Sgt. Mario Manzano, 26, an Army medic with Bravo Company of the division's 3rd Battalion, 15th Infantry Regiment, said later in an interview. He said one of the wounded women sat in the vehicle holding the mangled bodies of two of her children. "She didn't want to get out of the car," he said.

Full article of the above: Ten Iraqis Killed at U.S. Checkpoint washingtonpost (5:30 PM)

Civilian shooting toll may climb MSNBC (note: washintonpost and MSNBC are somehow affiliated)
US troops kill seven Iraqi civilians at checkpoint channelnewsasia (00:44 GMT)
U.S. Forces Shoot at Least Seven Civilians FoxNews
7 Iraqis Killed In Checkpoint Tragedy CBSNews
U.S. soldiers fire on van carrying women and children CNN (22:58 GMT)

So it did take 1:10 for CNN to get it on their site. I do know they are aggrevatingly (or suspiciously, wichever you prefer) slow with some issues.

Something else that I thought was interesting is the parallels between American and British treatment of civilians and sports in this article: Analysis: U.S. fails cricket test in Iraq. Some reports have british troops removing their helmets in order to appear more friendly.

[CasX]

Oops sorry I just posted the same thing, looking through the thread topic titles I didn't see the same thing

Anyway, breaking news: US troops have fired on a Iraqi civilian pick-up truck, killing the unarmed driver and seriously injuring the unarmed passenger.

[Proctor]

I'll echo the general sentiment. It was regrettable, and perhaps avoidable, but if you have a van coming at a checkpoint at high speed and refusing to stop, action must be taken.

[S.F.: oops... sorry PRoctor looks like I edited your post by mistake when I only meant to reply to it sorry if anything has been deleted by mistake]

[Siberian Fox]

if you have a van coming at a checkpoint at high speed and refusing to stop, action must be taken.

It didn't say the vehicle was travelling at high speed. Be carful about drawing clonclusions from incomplete facts - either way.

It does sound very similar to an incident in Northern Ireland where British soldiers shot dead an innocent driver though. After an inqury I think the solder who fired the fatal rounds was eventually cleared, but it was not as clear cut as first appeard. Like I said, we don't know all the facts.

[Proctor]

You didn't delete anything, don't worry. No, it didn't say high speed. So I apologise. But if the van is clearly not stopping, does it really make a difference?

[CasX]

I don't see how the occupants of the car were supposed to know that the "warning shot" was a "warning shot". If you're in a war zone driving your car and you hear a gunshot, are you going to stop?

[Sweeper]

I don't see how the occupants of the car were supposed to know that the "warning shot" was a "warning shot". If you're in a war zone driving your car and you hear a gunshot, are you going to stop?

Hell no, I would floor it, You never know weather thoose were intended for you or the air above you, to make you stop.

[Siberian Fox]

To quote myself from another topic:

... Geneva Convention relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of Warstates:

To this end the following acts are and shall remain prohibited at any time and in any place whatsoever with respect to the above-mentioned persons [non-combatants]:

(a) violence to life and person, in particular murder of all kinds, mutilation, cruel treatment and torture;

...

On a side note, that makes the recent US checkpoint shootings illegal under the Geneva convention since shooting at civilians "to place the safelty of troops first" is not adaquate defence. British Soldiers in N.Ireland have on occasion even allowed people to get away with running through checkpoints for this very reason.

[Proctor]

Fox, you realise the checkpoint dudes have no way of knowing whether the people in the van were civilians or militants?

[Siberian Fox]

As far as the Geneva convention is concerned that does not matter. You do not fire on someone until you have identified them as hostile. It could just as easily have been filled with a Western TV crew (if that makes a difference).

That is why the US armed forces are getting such a mavrick, trigger happy reputation. Too often they shoot first and ask questions later.