Czechs, Poles get missile warning - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#1122607
WARSAW — Poland and the Czech Republic said Monday that they probably would agree to having parts of a U.S. global missile defense system on their soil, and Moscow warned that the decision could make them targets of a Russian missile strike.

Poland would allow a battery of up to 10 ground-based ballistic rockets and the neighboring Czech Republic would be the site for an advanced radar system to track missiles.

Both countries are former members of the Soviet bloc that are now part of NATO.

"We have agreed that our response to the offer will most likely be positive," Czech Prime Minister Mirek Topolanek said at a joint news conference with his Polish counterpart, Jaroslaw Kaczynski.

The United States' multibillion-dollar defense system is designed to counter missiles that might someday be fired by what Washington calls rogue states — Iran and North Korea, for instance.

Russia has ridiculed the U.S. military logic and views the plan as a threat to its national security that would distort the post-Cold War balance of power in Europe.


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User avatar
By soron
#1122628
Tax payer's dollars well spent - the military-industrial complex can finally dump all those star wars toys they created back in the 80's
User avatar
By The American Lion
#1122658
What is Russia going to do about it? Nothing. Russia, you are not a superpower anymore. You are no more than a regional power. You are no equals with the US anymore.
By kami321
#1122660
What is Russia going to do about it? Nothing.

Translation: "Look, my penis is bigger!!!"
User avatar
By Praetor
#1122670
I'm not sure I understand the nature of their threat. Are they threatening to shoot United States military installations simply for having missiles in countries that agreed to allow them and are in striking distance to Russia? That would be an act of war, are the Russians looking to instigate World War III?
User avatar
By soron
#1122673
Imagine this scenario:
A small country, e.g. Kuwait, gets some US missile protection. Next that little country starts siphoning oil across the border from their Northern neighbor. Not just a bit but enough to make the OPEC tell them to stop crashing the oil market and the Northern neighbor to make threats that they would launch missiles.
Kuwait (after a reaffirming nod from the US) continues to pump oil across the border. The Northern neighbor launches a missile as a warning - and the missile is foiled by the US anti-missile system.

If Russia was the Northern neighbor, can you see how they wouldn't like to see the US take sides in a regional conflict ?

(BTW, the example above almost happened ... there were no missile attacks but the rest is "How GW1 began").
User avatar
By panther_black
#1122678
Russia has good reason to not want such a thing. Having US bases in Japan is bad enough for them, i guess. A unipolar world is completely unacceptable. And especially the way things are going right now, I don't want US playing the role of global cop any longer. It is torturing more than making the world a safer and better place.

And in such a scenario I think Russia should be making allies to thwart any such attempts.

That would be an act of war, are the Russians looking to instigate World War III?


World War III??!! I think the world is in a bigger mess right now. US attacks Iraq using wrong reasons ,paying a heavy toll, and threatens to attack so many others without any solid proof.

Oh my and when Russia feels it's in danger, and threatens to attack, the world starts spinning the other way...I mean simply 'Why is everything that US says, right and whatever that it doesn't, wrong?'

You are no equals with the US anymore


I wish it was... :(
User avatar
By Boondock Saint
#1122681
Russia is simply sabre rattling ... nothing new about that.

soron

Your scenerio is interesting but not really that big a deal. The US anti-missile system will be limited at best, if the military aggressor really wants, they can launch a large salvo of missiles and defeat any anti-missile system.

Furthermore, Russia has the ground forces to simply over run any US missile systems.

The missiles going into the Czech Republic are conventional anti-missile systems, they pose absolutely no threat to a peaceful Russia.
User avatar
By The Hippogriff
#1122683
soron wrote:Tax payer's dollars well spent

Taxpayers' money are rarely well spent, they're mostly the product of a theft.

Anyway I don't understand the use of these installations, I've doubts that Iran, NK & Co. will be able to hit Central Europe in next decades and Eastern Europe countries (where Shahab-3 missiles can arrive) aren't place where wasting expensive nuclear missilies.

Anyway I appreciate Poland and Czech Republic, different from Italy where hundred thousands of people protest for the expansion of an US Air Force base.
User avatar
By panther_black
#1122688
Your scenerio is interesting but not really that big a deal. The US anti-missile system will be limited at best, if the military aggressor really wants, they can launch a large salvo of missiles and defeat any anti-missile system.


Hmmmm...I thought it would be something more...are you sure about this...I don't why Russia should have a problem then...unless of course it really plans attacking Czech Republic and Poland in the near future...
User avatar
By Praetor
#1122713
World War III??!! I think the world is in a bigger mess right now. US attacks Iraq using wrong reasons

Using the conflict in Iraq and World War III in the same sentence? Don't make me laugh...
paying a heavy toll

3100 U.S. soldiers have died. That is miniscule compared to other armed conflicts the United States has engaged in.
and threatens to attack so many others without any solid proof.

To which threats are you specifically referring?
'Why is everything that US says, right and whatever that it doesn't, wrong?'

Because we have a bigger military. That's life, learn to deal....
By Lost Angel
#1122716
Great - let's stuff EU with more weapons - more weapons is always good. Anyway, neither Poland, nor Czech republic would matter in case of a WWIII - peanuts.
I am wondering however, when will USA finally choke on the war candy bar it is sucking on...
Polish don't have a mind of their own for a while already, Czech republic, however, I don't quite get - but well... If they wish so - they can even mine the borders.
User avatar
By Praetor
#1122717
when will USA finally choke on the war candy bar it is sucking on...

You and I will both be dead.
User avatar
By Boondock Saint
#1122726
.I don't why Russia should have a problem then...unless of course it really plans attacking Czech Republic and Poland in the near future...


Well, the Czech Republic is just getting a radar system ... not really difficult to take out one of those right? So the Russians, if they really wanted, could launch one single missile at it and it's gone.

Now, the ground based ballistic rockets that Poland is getting is not really that impressive either ... does anyone know which systems Poland is getting?

Are they active systems? Theoretical systems? Currently prototype systems? I mean what are we really talking about here?

Would Poland basically be getting an American version of the SAM? Is that what we are talking about?

Or are we talking about a weapon that as of yet doesnt even exist?
By MatthewJ
#1122734
Are they threatening to shoot United States military installations simply for having missiles in countries that agreed to allow them and are in striking distance to Russia? That would be an act of war, are the Russians looking to instigate World War III?


Putin has also rejected explanations that the missile defence shield, which will be located in the Czech Republic and Poland, is a deterrent against Iran and North Korea.

Now why would Putin do that?

Because if Russia did not have designs against Western Europe and the United States, which involve nuclear first strike, then he would not care about America's missile defence.

Perestroika was a grand deception to disarm us and lull us to sleep. The communist does not work the fruits of this charade to be undone.
By Lost Angel
#1122755
You and I will both be dead.
I hope not as a result of this...

Putin has also rejected explanations that the missile defence shield, which will be located in the Czech Republic and Poland, is a deterrent against Iran and North Korea.
Rightfully dismissed as being ridiculous.

Now why would Putin do that?
How to prove black is black and white is white?

Because if Russia did not have designs against Western Europe and the United States, which involve nuclear first strike, then he would not care about America's missile defence.
It is natural to care if a country next to you is loading up on explosives.


Would Poland basically be getting an American version of the SAM? Is that what we are talking about?
My guess is USA will dump something old there and make quick bucks, since Poland is happy to buy anything that'd make Russia upset.
User avatar
By Boondock Saint
#1122757
My guess is USA will dump something old there and make quick bucks, since Poland is happy to buy anything that'd make Russia upset.


So Russia has no real reason to be upset ... it would be like Cuba having conventional Russian SAM missiles.

The US is in Iraq, Russia loves selling their SAMS to Iran and previously, to Iraq.

So why should the US not sell SAM missiles to those near Russian influence?
User avatar
By droodle
#1122761
Russia has ridiculed the U.S. military logic and views the plan as a threat to its national security that would distort the post-Cold War balance of power in Europe.


There is no post-Cold War balance of power in Europe.
By Piano Red
#1122775
Russian hypocracy has no bounds. Seriously, when they have their own ABM system (somewhat outdated as it may be) in place over Moscow and which provides a defacto umbrella over the rest of European Russia, they really have no grounds to bitch at the US for putting a similar system in place in Eastern Europe. I won't even touch on the other hypocracy represented by them when it comes to their military deals with Iran. The US is simply responding in kind, and i'd bet good money it's just our way of sending a not-so-subtle message to them in the process.

Tax payer's dollars well spent - the military-industrial complex can finally dump all those star wars toys they created back in the 80's


You're welcome, you can thank the US later.

Anyway I don't understand the use of these installations, I've doubts that Iran, NK & Co. will be able to hit Central Europe in next decades and Eastern Europe countries (where Shahab-3 missiles can arrive) aren't place where wasting expensive nuclear missilies.


That's why they're developing the Shahab-4. At the rate their going they theoretically already have the capability to hit most of Central Europe and parts of France.

I am wondering however, when will USA finally choke on the war candy bar it is sucking on...


Not until it spends more than 5% of it's GDP on defense. Russia on the otherhand is already in the first stages given the 30% it spends just to maintain and try to reform it's forces.

Well, the Czech Republic is just getting a radar system ... not really difficult to take out one of those right? So the Russians, if they really wanted, could launch one single missile at it and it's gone.


If it's one of those new ground based radars no.

Now, the ground based ballistic rockets that Poland is getting is not really that impressive either ... does anyone know which systems Poland is getting?

Are they active systems? Theoretical systems? Currently prototype systems? I mean what are we really talking about here?

Would Poland basically be getting an American version of the SAM? Is that what we are talking about?

Or are we talking about a weapon that as of yet doesnt even exist?


Probably MEADS, which (for now) mainly consists of heavily modified PAC-3 batteries linked with fire control X-Band radar. Could be a lower-tier of THAAD though, but i'm pretty sure that's not fully operational yet.

MEADS is an active system, but only because the Pentagon rushed it into service because of all the hooplah with Russia and having some form of missile defense in Europe. The modified PAC-3s used for it now are just temporary solutions, the real missile for the system is still being developed.

It should be noted however that if MEADS is the system the US is deploying here and not THAAD, then it'd only be useful for short range threats like cruises missiles and such. If the Russians were serious about this then they'd probably drop out of the INF and blow the dust off their IRBMs, which if used in enough amounts would definitely overwhelm the pre-mature systems the US currently has in service.

Given all the hissyfitting the Russian General Staff have made about this and how spooked they are at the thought of MAD being upset they might just do it, we'll have to see how things develop.
By MatthewJ
#1122778
It is natural to care if a country next to you is loading up on explosives.


Only if it is aimed at you. Therefore there is only a problem when the mind is paranoid. Paranoia usually exists when one has something to hide. Also please, there is no moral equivalence between the descendants of religious pilgrims and Mongol expansionists who shoot dead journalists in broad daylight.
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