[Trooper]

A second generation of Holocaust survivors

Israeli representatives of the children of Holocaust survivors are talking to Germany about getting compensation for their mental-health treatment.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340 ... 83,00.html

Lawsuit: Recognize 2nd generation as Shoah victims



Children of survivors plan to file class action against German government, demanding that it recognize traumas caused by childhood in shadow of Holocaust

Reuven Weiss Published: 04.13.07, 12:20 / Israel News

More than 60 years after the Holocaust, the children of the survivors are demanding compensation from the German government for their suffering.

All this time they kept silent. Growing in the shadow of post-traumatic Holocaust surviving parents, they suffered from violence, over-protection and unrealistic expectations. Some of them succeeded and even became famous, while others collapsed.

Following an initiative to file a joint class action to second generation members from Israel, Germany and the United States, the Fisher Fund is holding talks with senior German officials in a bid to receive financing for mental treatments required by some second-generation Holocaust survivors.

The Fisher Fund was established seven years ago by Attorney Gideon Fisher, whose parents Mali and Yosef were Holocaust survivors. The fund, an independent body, grants scholarships and assists in places where other organizations are unable to help.

About a year and a half ago, after receiving a large number of requests, Attorney Fisher established a legal department in his office to deal with lawsuits filed by hundreds of Holocaust survivors and their children.

Many of the second-generation survivors told Fisher about the difficulties they were forced to experience as children to Holocaust survivors, difficulties which affect their lives to this day, and due to which they are in need of ongoing mental treatment.

This brought upon the initiative to form a class action against the German government, demanding that it bear the costs of the psychological and psychiatric treatment many of the survivors' children are forced to undergo due to their childhood in the shadow of the Holocaust.

According to data provided by the Amcha association, which offers mental and social support to Holocaust survivors and second generation members, about 4 percent of the 350,000 children of Shoah survivors living in Israel (about 14,000 people) are in need of mental treatment.

Amcha currently treats 878 members of the second generation who finance the treatment themselves. On average, each patient receives 80 hours of treatment a year, at the cost of NIS 300 (about $73.75) per hour.

According to the association, the annual cost of mental treatment for the second generation Holocaust survivors living in Israel amounts to approximately NIS 34 million ($8.35 million).

'We heard shocking stories'

Based on these data, a draft lawsuit was formed for members of the second generation along with law offices in Germany and the United States.

"The distorted connection developed between members of the second generation and their parents has definitely delayed their independent development and even caused them, in retrospect, to experience significant regression in their relations with other people, as well as severe mental and psychological damage," according to the draft lawsuit.

"Therefore, it is time to make Germany – who was the one to set in motion the wheels of the Nazi machine for the destruction of the Jewish people, and the one responsible for the death of 6 million Jews, and who in its criminal acts violated the human rights of the Jewish people and its descendants – to recognize the fact that these actions caused and still cause unbearable mental and psychological damage to members of the second generation," the lawsuit continued.

"While working on the lawsuit, we heard shocking stories," Attorney Fisher said Thursday. "We heard of people who put their shoes next to the door every night preparing to escape, or of people who wake up every morning at 4 am and look for their father under the bed.

"This is what they went through during their entire childhood. Every night their father went under the bed, hid there and begged them not to take him away, and they had to take him out of their and convince him that everything was okay."

According to the plan, the Fisher Fund will establish a daughter-fund to collect the funds received from Germany, in addition to funds collected from Israeli donors, which will be designated for two goals: Mental treatment for second generation members, and a photographed documentation of the second generation and its difficult childhood experiences.

"We saw before our eyes the Dutch model, in which the German government finances two weekly treatments for second generation member for their entire life," explained Baruch Mazor, CEO of the Fisher Fund, who is also a son of Holocaust survivors.

"The second generation members don’t want compensation from the Germans; they only want to be entitled for treatment which will get them back on their feet," he said.

[Tomas]

<removed>

[Theodore]

Oh for God's sake, this is getting absolutely ridiculous. I believe a Bulgarian may have looked at one of my ancestors funny during the Middle Ages, I'd better sue Bulgaria for all the anguish that thought caused in me.

I mean, as long as we accept that people can sue the descendants of people who did their ancestors wrong, it makes perfect sense.

[Unperson-SN]

For F*** sakes.

If nothing esle...PLEASE...PLEASE do not bow down to these greedy people it will set a stupidly absurd precedent which we're all going to regret not opposing more when we had the chance.

[Maas]

Looks to me like a bunch of people who dislike working and getting checks for free. while:
Germans got to install microwave ovens
Custom kitchen deliveries
Germans got to move these refrigerators
Germans got to move these color TV's

Oh, that ain't workin' that's the way you do it

[dannymu]

I do hope teh German govt won't go down the path of political-correctness and give them compensation. History is history and the Germans have already piad enough for the Holocaust. It's time to move on.

[Arthur2sheds_Jackson]

I had a friend who read about the Holocaust.

He felt bad afterwards.

Could he get some cash from the German gov't?

[War Angel]

Those fuckers holding back the money and not giving it to the REAL survivors should be shot dead. There's no need for more money - the money already given should be handed to those who actually deserve it... not some whiners who are merely riding on the horseback of compensation.

[Far-Right Sage]

History is history and the Germans have already piad enough for the Holocaust. It's time to move on.

Amen. Germany needs to hold her ground right here and right now.

[Verv]

If you can receive trauma for things that you did not experience first hand then I think that people who so vividly portray it like Sphielberg are committing greater crimes than Germany...

Sue that guy. Haha.

But really: personal responsibility. If you are such a sensitive boy or emotional girl perhaps you should not look into it that much.

[N^G]

Ah, the wonders of the modern world. "Poor Me" syndrome and greed.

[GrumpyEuropean]

Holocaust's 2nd generation demands compensation from Germany

Germany ought to show itself generous and compensate the claimants for the costs they incur on top of the difficulties they experienced and experience. And yes, this will set a precedent that will cause further claims to arise in Poland, Russia, Greece, or whatever other countries the Germans laid waste to, and a little more money will be required to compensate all these.

Let us then proceed to make this a principle of international law: whatever country engages in aggressive warfare (other than self defence) is to be held responsible for the trauma caused in survivors and in their children. Make a failure to comply with that principle an offence that will be dealt with by harsh economic sanctions. I would call that a very limited application of the costs-by-cause principle in international law.

[Tailz]

GrumpyEuropean wrote:

Germany ought to show itself generous and compensate the claimants for the costs they incur on top of the difficulties they experienced and experience. And yes, this will set a precedent that will cause further claims to arise in Poland, Russia, Greece, or whatever other countries the Germans laid waste to, and a little more money will be required to compensate all these.

So when will it stop, when can we stop punishing a county for the crimes of previous leaders, after the third generation, after the 4th generation?

No, thats endless punishment, and part of what started the Second World War was the punishments laid on Germany after the First World War, were so harsh that it caused economic collapse, and a breeding ground for radical groups which spawned Adolf Hitler and his band of wackos - do you want that to happen again?

Also how can anyone be punished for crimes they didn't commit, or were not even alive when those crimes were committed - as thats what further compensation claims are going to do, punish Germans who are innocent. Why should a person receive compensation for an act that was not even carried out against them?

Let us then proceed to make this a principle of international law: whatever country engages in aggressive warfare (other than self defence) is to be held responsible for the trauma caused in survivors and in their children. Make a failure to comply with that principle an offence that will be dealt with by harsh economic sanctions. I would call that a very limited application of the costs-by-cause principle in international law.

Compensate those directly effected, yes, and only those directly effected by the conflict. I don't see any reason to open a blank cheque book to their descendants.

Should we punish the son of a criminal for the crimes of his farther?

[GrumpyEuropean]

Compensate those directly effected, yes, and only those directly effected by the conflict. I don't see any reason to open a blank cheque book to their descendants.

Well. If somebody drives recklessly and forces you off the street to avoid a collision, and you then run over a child, the reckless driver is liable for the secondary consequences even though they are not the direct effect of his wrongdoing. Why not apply a similar principle to war?

Cause and effect relations do not end just because you do not wish to see that causes exist for suffering beyond what those immediately affected had to endure.

Should we punish the son of a criminal for the crimes of his farther?

But... children of convicted criminals are punished, harshly. They may lose the convicted parent, for some time, sometimes forever, and their heritage is diminished by the amount the parent cannot earn and has to pay as a compensation for the parent's victims. Yes, children of criminals are routinely punished, so routinely that close to nobody's talking about it and you weren't even aware of it.

As to your historical analogy for post WWI squeezing of Germany that in fact contributed to the rise of Nazism, it is deeply flawed because back then Germany was drained of much needed money and had a good part of its industry dismantled and transported abroad, and much of the more industrialised regions occupied, neither of which applies today. Have you even looked at the paltry sums demanded for the treatment of the victims? They do not even begin to compare to the reparations imposed on Germany post WWI.

[Tailz]

GrumpyEuropean wrote:

Well. If somebody drives recklessly and forces you off the street to avoid a collision, and you then run over a child, the reckless driver is liable for the secondary consequences even though they are not the direct effect of his wrongdoing. Why not apply a similar principle to war?

But thats not what your talking about here with the issue being discussed, what your raiseing is that the great-grandson of the Lady who's child has been run over by a car should also get compensation many years later.

Cause and effect relations do not end just because you do not wish to see that causes exist for suffering beyond what those immediately affected had to endure.

Oh right, ok, so I can sue the English because some of my Scottish kin died in some battle witht he english over a hundred years ago and today I shed a tear over their deaths.

Gimmie a few million for my suffering you english bastards!

But... children of convicted criminals are punished, harshly. They may lose the convicted parent, for some time, sometimes forever, and their heritage is diminished by the amount the parent cannot earn and has to pay as a compensation for the parent's victims. Yes, children of criminals are routinely punished, so routinely that close to nobody's talking about it and you weren't even aware of it.

I agree and I can see the perspective, but that passive punishment should not become active punishment.

As to your historical analogy for post WWI squeezing of Germany that in fact contributed to the rise of Nazism, it is deeply flawed because back then Germany was drained of much needed money and had a good part of its industry dismantled and transported abroad, and much of the more industrialised regions occupied, neither of which applies today. Have you even looked at the paltry sums demanded for the treatment of the victims? They do not even begin to compare to the reparations imposed on Germany post WWI.

Drained of money though the payment of reperations to the Allies, the loss of income from lost terratories, the food embargo the Allies put on Germany to force Germany to sign the treaties, the loss of national pride, etc, it all builds up to German resentment for non-germans who they view as the cause of their suffering - and the Nazi's used that suffering to their benifit.

Part of the reason the punishments heaped on Germany after WWII was because the Western Allies knew that the rise of Nazism benifited from the hash punishments heaped on Germany after WWI, and thus didn't want to creat those conditions for a new Nazi party to rise up.

[rhodescholar]

As a staunch defender of israel, this idiot attorney makes my job that much harder.

This lawsuit is beyond the pale, and I would donate alot of money to help Germany defend herself from this awful, despicable blackmail.

As said above, the suits were settled already, and that's that.

As for the scumbag swiss whose life insurance companies refused to pay death benefits for survivors who did not carry death certificates, these fuckers will enjoy a particularly warm place in hell, but as for the germans, I'd have to think they paid their dues already.

This lawsuit is pure extortion, and should be crushed down by every able-minded, clear-thinking jew. It looks terrible and provides huge fodder for the all those who view jews as merely money-grubbing whiners.

[Thoss]

Germany needs to hold her ground right here and right now.

In this case, FRS, I agree with you.

[GrumpyEuropean]

But thats not what your talking about here with the issue being discussed, what your raiseing is that the great-grandson of the Lady who's child has been run over by a car should also get compensation many years later.

Look, the family that experienced the loss will be compensated for the loss, not only the child that was run over, so should an eventual brother traumatised for the costs for the treatment he incurs because he cannot cope with what he was forced to behold. Your innuendo appears to show that you have no argument for your position.

Oh right, ok, so I can sue the English because some of my Scottish kin died in some battle witht he english over a hundred years ago and today I shed a tear over their deaths.

You've undergone treatment? More innuendo.

I agree and I can see the perspective, but that passive punishment should not become active punishment.

Have you even considered the term "passive punishment" and what it might mean? Because, it means nothing. The punishment for the children is very "active", exacted by state on those not involved in the deed, and not in any way responsible for it.

For heaven's sake, the Britons only recently paid back the last chunk of the costs they incurred while defending themselves against Nazi aggression, so one might say that the grandchildren of those who faced the Nazi aggression were punished for what was done to them. But the grandchildren of the Nazis shall not pay for what their grandparents have done and caused?

Part of the reason the punishments heaped on Germany after WWII was because the Western Allies knew that the rise of Nazism benifited from the hash punishments heaped on Germany after WWI, and thus didn't want to creat those conditions for a new Nazi party to rise up.

That about restates what I said, and I can but repeat that the costs for the treatment, even if there were more claims to arise, create nowhere near the conditions that had created the ground for the rise of Nazism. Your historical analysis is deeply flawed and thus cannot serve as an argument against the validity or advisability of those claims against Germany.

And yes, I found the idea a little odd on first sight, but had to realise that second order effects haunt all involved, and on both sides of the conflict, with Germany as the main reason. I happen to think that all those Germans, be they in official function or not, attending Holocaust memorial services, should not be permitted to attend in a merely fealty way, but actually do something to counter the consequences. In a way, they ought to wish to do something to alleviate the suffering that their parents and grandparents have caused by deeds they publicly deplore.

I say, enough shallow gestures.

Whatever, I have to disagree with all those on this board who appear to believe that nations engaging in aggressive warfare ought to get a free pass for most of the damage they do. They mostly appear to be warmongers themselves, so they "defend" Germany for rather hollow and selfish reasons. Defence this is not, just the effect of their unwillingness to acknowledge the suffering caused by every war's atrocities even long after combat has ended as well as the responsibility that extends far beyond the narrow circle of those who committed these atrocities.

It is almost ironic that exactly on the side of those alleged and self-appointed defenders of Israel the anti-Semite topic of the "greedy Jew" is raised, facing a sum of, gasp, $8.35 million annually. I would praise Germany endlessly for abstaining from aggressive militaristic policies or even the over-reliance on military might, and some of the money thus spared might go into funds that in fact alleviate suffering. This is money well spent, methinks.

[Meistro1]

Germany has already paid for Hollocost? How many reparations, exactly, wipe your hands clean of six million dead?

Germany the nation should be looted... it's survivors should be penilliless, destitute and poor... working 16 hours a day for no money. Should the sins of the father be paid for by the son? Better than the sins of the father being paid for by the victim...

[Red Star]

I believe a Bulgarian may have looked at one of my ancestors funny during the Middle Ages, I'd better sue Bulgaria for all the anguish that thought caused in me

Don't be ridicilous, it is the Croats that need to pay us.

On a serious note, do they really expect reparations? What happened to personal responsability - did Klaus, born in 1974, really partake in the Holocaust? How long must people apolagise for and feel ostracized before we can "forgive" them?