[Proctor]

All 70 crew members on a Chinese submarine died a few days ago. Stragely enough, the submarine did not sink, and the last I heard was being towed back to port. The Chinese government has labelled the accident "mechanical failure" and has refused to elaborate.

Can someone tell me what the hell happened?

[ahab]

China sub victims 'suffocated' BBC

The 70 Chinese submariners killed in a recent accident appear to have died of suffocation, according to a Hong Kong newspaper with close ties to Beijing.

An article in Wen Wei Po quoted investigators as saying there were no traces of an explosion on board the submarine, or signs of flooding.

The newspaper report said rescuers found all crew members still at their posts, suggesting there had been no warning of the "mechanical difficulties" which the official Chinese media said caused the accident.

Cause of submarine disaster is mystery Boston Globe

When submarine No. 361 descended on a training mission two weeks ago, a malfunctioning diesel engine may have sucked the oxygen out of the hull, claiming the lives of all 70 crewmen within two minutes, a senior Chinese Navy official said yesterday.

Notice the word "may" in the official's statement. I think this is the story, but he did say may.

Other articles:
Doomed sub: Oxygen sucked out?

70 people were killed on the sub, 46 is the normal number of crew for this type of submarine, the easiest conclusion that I draw is they were testing a prototype improvement. They had extra technicians onboard to help test and it failed killing everyone onboard. But that is pure uninformed quick speculation.

[Proctor]

Thanks ahab. They're interesting, to say the least.

Most of the stuff I've come across look like this, which I came across by chance before I realised you'd replied, containing no real information. What it did do was not just suggest, but actually say that China is going to invade Taiwan, which is probably the stupidest thing I've ever heard Reuters say.

[Krasniy Yastreb]

I heard the sub design was based on the German type XII U-Boat from 1944.........

[Tovarish Spetsnaz]

I disagree with ahab. 70 crew members on board suggests a TRAINING sub.

Considering the sub was an old design (based on old post-WW2 Soviet designs...not German!!)...than it is very likely this was a training sub.

[KurtFF8]

good, if i saw anything about american involment in a reply, i think i would have stoped posting here lol

anyway this is interesting indeed

[ahab]

Tovarish's possibility sounds more believeable than mine. I thought about it and if they were testing something I doubt they would have a full crew on board.

New article: China Airs Details of Submarine Disaster

The reports said Chinese investigators are looking at several possibilities for the cause of the crash. One is that a sailor mistakenly opened an air outtake value, sucking all the oxygen out of the vessel as it descended. Another pointed to a leak of battery acid and its combination with sea water to make deadly chlorine gas. A third possibility involved a fuel leak touched off by a torpedo, the reports said.

[Proctor]

TS, if you'd read the articles you would know that it was based on a Soviet design which was based on a German U-Boat design.

[Putinist]

I disagree with ahab. 70 crew members on board suggests a TRAINING sub.

I wonder what they were training for then, Tovarish?

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[Carlos]

Combat training maybe, who knows...

[Putinist]

Combat training maybe, who knows...

"Combat" TRAINING, eh? I wonder who they are planning to go into combat with during the outbreak of SARS disease?

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[TomThumbKOP]

There are many possibilities. Some of them are:

The SUb just finished an overhaul and was on a post-overhaul cruise with yard dogs on board
The sub had a prototype modification again requiring the presence of yard dogs
The sub was doing the Chinese equivalent of a Tiger Cruise and had civillians aboard.
The sub was being used for routine training of new crewmembers.

Or it is etirely possible that none of these are right. [/list]

[Carlos]

Combat training maybe, who knows...

"Combat" TRAINING, eh? I wonder who they are planning to go into combat with during the outbreak of SARS disease?

Please don't kill me...

What I meant was one of the things TomThumbKOP said: "The sub was being used for routine training of new crewmembers".

If you have a military vessel, you won't make it a decoration piece on the harbor. So, you must train it's crew for combat situations.

[Tovarish Spetsnaz]

Putinist...you have your head way too high up in some conspiracy-theory's ass...

Not everything is a conspirancy Putinist...

China has naval schools doesn't it??? These new sailors have to be trained somehow...right?? You don't just train new sailors when you are going to go to war...thats why you have standing armies.

This was no Tiger cruise...if it was it would have been a disaster...guess how many foreigners would have died??


Yes Soviet post-WW2 subs were based on German subs...which were based on someone else's subs...which were based on someone'e elses's subs...all the way back to 1776 and the Turtle sub. I guess Chinese subs are based on the Turtle than...

Either way....this was a 1960s boat...so most likely no new systems were being tested on it. Most likely...such an old sub was used for training...

[Putinist]

China has naval schools doesn't it??? These new sailors have to be trained somehow...right?? You don't just train new sailors when you are going to go to war...thats why you have standing armies.

Some good points here, and that will wash down. But tell me, does this opinion of yours also hold true for the Kursk?

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[Demosthenes]

Doesn't the article more question why this was published as opposed to whether they were up to something no good? At a guess I would think since Zemin has been trying to reform the military the last few years, publishing the story and allowing the opinion that the military needs reform to be voiced on Chinese web forums, that this would only help popularize that sentiment. Eh? Just a thought.

[Putinist]

At a guess I would think since Zemin has been trying to reform the military, publising and allowing the opinion that the military needs reform to be voiced on Chinese web forums, would only help popularize that sentiment.

"Zemin" (which should actually be "Jiang" - Sino people take their firstnames as their surnames, i.e.: "Mao Tse-tung", "Ho Chi Minh") ain't in power no more. Nowadays we have Hu Jintao.

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[Demosthenes]

Yes, thank you for the Chinese name lesson, I was aware of that, my apologies to the "former" leader, the point remains...and since Jiang was mentioned in the article I figgured he was still relevant in some way.

[Tovarish Spetsnaz]

Yes it holds true for the Kursk. The Kursk was part of a naval excercise...involving most of the Northern Fleet. Russian Navy of today holds at least two such major excercises per year...

I don't see a conspirancy there...

There are many theories as to what casued the Kursk to sink...from a malfunctioning missile from a Kirov cruiser which got out of control and went into the sea and hit the Kursk (a 1 in a million shot!!) ...to a new torpedo system being tested which went wrong.

If it was indeed a torpedo being tested...than it was not a new torpedo. It was the Shkval torpedo...which is not new but has been in service for about 20 years now...The Kursk may have been testing a new version of it (which is rumored to exist).

Either way....these are NORAML procesudres in any navy...training, excerices, new weapon systems...

This is not something for you to make a conspirancy theory of Putinist!!! I know you love those crazy theories...but sometimes you can get carried away.

Sometimes...things happen by chance...

[Putinist]

This is not something for you to make a conspiracy theory of Putinist!!! I know you love those crazy theories...but sometimes you can get carried away.

Sometimes...things happen by chance...

You mean like a professional KGB officer who has never personally admitted that he has left the Communist Party coming to power in the new, capitalist Russia, and then starts restoring the Soviet Union piece-by-piece in 94% conformance with the words of Golitsyn in 1984 - before the Berlin Wall collapsed?! Oh, that coincidence?

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