[ahab]

Do you seriously think that Russia would go against China, on the side of Capitalist Taiwan

Oh, nonono, this excercise was where China invaded Taiwan, the US conventionally attacked China, and then Russia responded against the US. They were truely training for the worst.

I see little to no evidence other than this deception for why Russia would side with China, and we debated that plenty in the other thread.

I predict in the future, stuff will happen, people will die, there will be war, I will get sent to some foreign country, the USA will cease to exist, the earth will blow up.

Anyone wanna bet that those happen? We might not be around to see them all happen, but I'm thinking they will.

100% accuracy! HAH! I can outdo Goyltzin!

[Putinist]

100% accuracy! HAH! I can outdo Goyltzin!

"Goyltzin"? You can't even spell his name right.

Honestly, your inane attempts to prove wrong the accuracy of the aforementioned defector are nothing short of pathetic.

[ahab]

"Goyltzin"? You can't even spell his name right.

No I can't. Every time I've put it in a post I've copied and pasted it from one of your posts. I took the easy way out and knowingly butchered his name.

Honestly, your inane attempts to prove wrong the accuracy of the aforementioned defector are nothing short of pathetic.

Honestly, your inane attempts to prove the accuracy of the aforementioned defector are nothing short of pathetic.

That last statement is more true once that "wrong" is out. All I've seen from you is "oh well if we take this little bit of evidence, and this little bit of evidence, they proove that there is a soviet deception, It's there, but it is a deception so I can't provide concrete proof"

[Putinist]

"Goyltzin"? You can't even spell his name right.

No I can't. Every time I've put it in a post I've copied and pasted it from one of your posts. I took the easy way out and knowingly butchered his name.

Okay - I'll accept that. Whale had some trouble pronouncing it correctly aswell.

Honestly, your inane attempts to prove the accuracy of the aforementioned defector are nothing short of pathetic.

Don't talk rubbish. You have seen, well - read, the evidence. You can read on the big now-four page thread on this, now located in the Political Circus section of this forum. Look at how the 1984 "neutral, socialist Europe" prediction has come true. Look how the "East-West convergence to fight a "new enemy"" (definitely international terrorism and fanaticism) has also occurred - and at the very time predicted, the end of the first ten years of the Final Phase. Look how the "former communist-era hardliners", i.e.: Putin, Primakov, Ivanov, and so forth, have all come to power, against as predicted, after Yeltsin. Countless other materializations have also occurred, as you should well know. How can we possibly ignore the testimony of a man who has proven himself time and time again?

That last statement is more true once that "wrong" is out. All I've seen from you is "oh well if we take this little bit of evidence, and this little bit of evidence, they proove that there is a soviet deception, It's there, but it is a deception so I can't provide concrete proof".

Let me ask you a question: when you were young, did you ever have the opportunity to have a go at one of those "join-the-dots" puzzles? Over on the Final Phase forum, HiloBill had a saying; "Join the dots... awaken the giant!". I have joined the dots for you - this very thread, or rather the piece of news detailed and being discussed on it, being just one of those tiny dots. Now you should really be able to see a picture - and it's not going to be a pretty one for those who are not inclined to Marx.

[Stipe]

Guess what day tomorrow is.

Armageddon?

I digress, if someone fucks up that concert, I will have no choice but to raise an army of fellow metalheads and march on Moscow. We won't be like any enemy before that has invaded Great Rus! The snow won't do us in like it did to the French and the Germans! If it gets a little cold, we'll just put on some corpse paint, pop in some Emperor and early Mayhem, grab some axes, and run around in the snow laden forests like Grim, Frostbitten Troll Warriors!

okey, I'm on crack

[Boondock Saint]

If it gets a little cold, we'll just put on some corpse paint, pop in some Emperor and early Mayhem, grab some axes, and run around in the snow laden forests like Grim, Frostbitten Troll Warriors!

FUCKIN A!

I am so there ... can I hit people with my ax? That would be so freakin awesome ...

If there is one thing I want to do in this life its shroom out, grab my battle ax toss on some animal skins and run through the forests chopping people in half!

[John Doe]

Well, they better hope they have a better plan than the one they came up with for Chechnya.

If they keep trying sooner or later they'll find a small enough country their antiquated army can handle.

[Demosthenes]

Hey Stepjan, What about Slayer, Overkill, or Exodus? Now that is music to invade Russia with!

[Stipe]

Absolutely! I imagine we'd motivate the men with a collection thrash and death metal, and during the winter, we'd give the men resistance to the cold with some grim and frostbitten black metal.

We could also throw in some classic Maiden and Priest from time to time, but not The Trooper, even though it's a kick ass song, considering it ends with getting killed by a Russian bullet.

Too bad too, since Russia is such an interesting country oh well...

But yeah! THRASH TILL' DEATH!

[ahab]

Hopefully there's be more international unity so the Swiss (Samael) Sweedish (Drain STH) Norwegian (The Kovenant) German (Rammstein and Megaherz) could all come along. I suppose I could bring along the local boys, Slipknot, as well altho I don't personally enjoy them. In an effort to stay on topic...

Well, they better hope they have a better plan than the one they came up with for Chechnya.

If they keep trying sooner or later they'll find a small enough country their antiquated army can handle.

the people who believe in this will say that Cechnya is just part of the deception to lure the west into a false sence of security. If it were part of the deception they really went overboard in portraying their military as inneffective.

[Stipe]

Samael and The Kovenant can come along, but I'm not terribly fond of the others on that list, and certainly not Slipknot. eeew

We should bring Testament..and Kreator!!

(I feel like I've really stolen this topic away, and I think I'll get yelled at, but before that happens, in all honesty, could any discussion on this topic be anything other than polarized? Even though I find the prospect of Russia turning communist over night and initiating a massive nuclear on the United States and Britain to be, euphemistically speaking, quite unlikely, if we do happen to die, well, we can't do shit about it.

So, as a wise man, Bruce Dickinson, once wrote (sang), If you're going to die, die with your boots on.)

[Putinist]

"John Doe",

Well, they better hope they have a better plan than the one they came up with for Chechnya.

If they keep trying sooner or later they'll find a small enough country their antiquated army can handle.

Which "antiquated" army would this be then?

Please... the Christian Science Monitor - steer well clear of that, for goodness sake!

____________________________________________________


ahab,

the people who believe in this will say that Chechnya is just part of the deception to lure the west into a false sense of security. If it were part of the deception they really went overboard in portraying their military as ineffective.

Of-course - that's the whole idea about Chechnya. When the Kremlin strategists figured that they would need to make the Russian Army seem weak and impoverished to the foolish eyes of the West - they well and truly did a bloody fine job of it! You are egregiously thinking now that the once-mighty successor to the Soviet Army is as ill-equipped now against the odious Chechen rebel fighters as the Russian Army were under Rasputin's command in 1916 - when they went out fighting with sticks while the Germans had sophisticated machine guns! Frankly, I am glad that you are thinking that, because if you are, then the West will be to. You have fallen into their trap.

If their army really were, as John Doe humorously thinks, "antiquated", then I ask you to look at the September 2002 Russian incursion into the Republic of Georgia, an act branded by the Georgian Deputy Security Minister Irakli Alassania as "an act of war". "The Georgian authorities will not tolerate Russia settling the Pankisi Gorge issue by the use of force", he warned. When they entered into Georgia, and Christopher Story, FRSA, explored this in more detail in his appearance last Wednesday night on the Whale Show, the Russian Army where, to quote the analyst, "able to take over towns and vast areas of territory in the north within hours". Speaking at the time, a Washington State Department spokesman told Reuters at a press conference on September 12, 2002, that; "The United States strongly supports Georgia's territorial integrity and would oppose any unilateral military action by Russia inside Georgia". That could all too easily have been a major war. The point here is that this could have escalated into a major Asian war within twenty-four hours!

Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

On another note, and I was contemplating posting this on my other thread to strengthen my point, but the time has in fact arisen now so I shall do it now, here are some pictures taken on May 9, 2003, "Victory Day" parade outside of the Kremlin. To call these new images "very interesting" is a gross understatement:







Above: Note the Hammer-and-Sickle emblem in the centre of the silver star plaque here behind the US Assistant Secretary of State Kim Holmes. Another one of Putin's little "harmless cultural revivals to appease to masses" no doubt.









Yes, I am aware that they have often openly waved about the Red flag and Hammer-and-Sickle insignias on this day in past years, but Russian Defence Minister Sergei Ivanov's Wednesday May 7, 2003, public speech in front of one (see the top picture), surely would not have been dreamed of during the Yeltsin "dark age".

Comrades... the glory days are coming back!!!:)

[Krasniy Yastreb]

Nice pics.

Hee hee, Red Square, Tomb of the Unknown Soldier, I WAS THERE 4 WEEKS AGO, DAMMIT!! hee hee hee......

[Stipe]

Just a note, the "star plaque" which you noted is actually a decorative design on the ministry doors and as far as I know, and I'm fairly certain of this, was just never taken down after the collapse of the Soviet Union.

You can find all such little reminders of the Soviet Union all over Moscow, from such things on public buildings and even on the exterior facades of hotels. No one ever really bothered to take them down.

I'm not particularly surprised by any of the images from Victory Day. It makes sense that those banners are the ones they march with as they are the ones the Russian people and army fought under during the war.

Also, I noticed the flag behind Ivanov isn't exactly the Soviet Flag. The color of the hammer and sickle is changed.

At any rate, I certainly wouldn't call it a return to the "glory days", not to mention that I don't much think of the Soviet Union as being particularly glorious to begin with. Living under a system of constant shortages, one which utterly emasculated the beauty of Russian culture and intensified a neo-rossiskiye imperialism underneath a communist veneer is not something I would welcome back gleefully for the Russian people.

But at any rate, if you're right, we should find out tonight or tomorrow.

[Putinist]

Just a note, the "star plaque" which you noted is actually a decorative design on the ministry doors and as far as I know, and I'm fairly certain of this, was just never taken down after the collapse of the Soviet Union.

And I wonder why that was then? Probably because they had every intention of restoring the Soviet Union soon after. Why do you think Lenin is unburied, in spite of Yeltsin's best efforts to bury the thing (well it was never going to happen anyway - even under Yeltsin!)?

You can find all such little reminders of the Soviet Union all over Moscow, from such things on public buildings and even on the exterior facades of hotels. No-one ever really bothered to take them down.

True. That was, accept, for the statues of the Soviet-era leaders. The "Iron felix" Dzerzhinsky statue, for example, got pulled down at the end of 1991 following the staged collapse of the Soviet Union. In October 2002, it was unwelcomely resurrected.

I'm not particularly surprised by any of the images from Victory Day. It makes sense that those banners are the ones they march with as they are the ones the Russian people and army fought under during the war.

And will also fight under in the next world war - the final battle against the West, World War III.

Also, I noticed the flag behind Ivanov isn't exactly the Soviet Flag. The color of the hammer and sickle is changed.

Yes, I noticed that too. I had to look closely at it aswell - and I initially decided that it was not the actual Hammer-and-Sickle insignia Russia is famed for. But then I saw this picture:



noted the colour change, put two-and-two together, and concluded that it was indeed the Hammer-and-Sickle on that flag - albeit a new "white" one(?).

[ahab]

noted the colour change, put two-and-two together, and concluded that it was indeed the Hammer-and-Sickle on that flag - albeit a new "white" one(?).

And this prooves that they are reviving Tzarism!

I see these things, but I don't see them as signs of a deception.

[Stipe]

You can still find some statues of Soviet era leaders, usually in the peripheral cities and towns.

Also, the different color would seem to indicate that the flag behind Ivanov isn't necessarily the Soviet flag, but rather possibly a war flag. I'd have to look through some of my materials to determine exactly what it could possibly be. I'll start looking once I finish writing here, I guess.

At any rate, none of this is enough to convince me of any revival of the Soviet Union beyond some limited elements of symbolism, which really isn't that threatening considering if we had applied the same rationale to the early days of the Russian Federation, we would have been led to think that Yeltsin as plotting the return of the autocracy.

[Stipe]

okay, I've read the banner in the one picture and consulted some texts for explanation of the initials. The text on it reads basically as:

150th Rifle Division
Awarded with the Kutuzov Order of the II Degree
honored name Idritska (division)
79th joint corps, 3rd Shock Army, 1st Belorussian Front

It's the Banner of Victory. Perfectly harmless, if not perfectly appropriate, in my opinion.

I've also cross referenced the flag behind Ivanov with World War II flags, and quite simply, it isn't the Soviet flag. The red flag with the white hammer and sickle is again, the Banner of Victory, the specific style of flag lifted over the Reichstag. Again, it fits perfectly with the nature of the Victory Day celebrations. The only element it is apparently missing is the inscription, but the white hammer and sickle is indicative of that specific flag. The apparent lack of the inscription may be explained by the fact that the banner has a plain reverse, as a result, the image of the Banner of Victory most people outside of Russia are familiar with from film and photographs does not show the inscription either.

As for other symbols, I'm not convinced you can argue that it is because they knew the Soviet Union would be reestablished soon afterwards, considering so many state and institutional flags have been changed to pre-revolutionary banners (including the Defence Ministry flag). Soviet symbolism is still mostly inside of the armed services (although not the Navy flag and other important symbols with major historic value) so it really does seem like a compromise in order to instill the pride of Russian military honor in various periods of history.

[Vassili Zaitsev]

Wonderful pictures! though the hammer & sickle looks more silver than white to me.

[Comrade_Boris]

OI! PUTINIST! Putin isnt a communist - he is just a corrupt capitalist/opportunistic leader of a declining state. Nor is europe socialist - as you stated was the case in an earlier post on this thread. If only it was the case. Instead, conditions for workers only gets worse - with more and more temporary low payed jobs and rising costs of living. And less regulation on businesses so that they can exploit people more like the capitalist pigs that they are! All the time, europe looks more to Britain - to copy the new labour USA free market model.

Well - it stinks, and the only reason why the US beat the USSR in the economics was because of their immoral ways - their backing of dictator puppets to plunder the resources of the third world! While at the time killing and torturing millions of decent people who wanted to utilise the resources for their home country. The capitalist US and allies won much in the way of immoral materials and cheap labour!

Damn their eyes! The third world is one day going to rally and form a 'non trade with US' league. Then we will see how good this capitalism is when its limited to dependance on the resources of only its home ground.