[QatzelOk]

You do know that Jews were the original habitants of Israel, right?

You do know that blue-eyed people were the original Persians, right? And I have blue eyes, so I guess I can go get "my" land back anytime.

What peace and stability is Israel threatening exactly?

Israel is on ongoing colonization project. We live in a post-colonial world. The people around Israel are literate and media-savvy. They don't think of the Israelis as white gods.

This situation - callous colonizers/educated displaced locals - is highly destabilizing. And the colonial narrative has been discredited along with the racial theories that lead to it.

[Dave]

Yes, Israel is supposed to take into account the consequences of its actions, whatever these actions are. And since Israel is under US umbrella, the US should also take into account the consequences of the Israeli's actions.

I'm sorry, but this is silly. If a state has to take into account fucking protestors, nothing will ever get done.

I don't think that in this specific case, it is a simple matter of your own foreign policy.

However...

"Israel has opposed the idea of the Security Council taking any action on the Gaza crisis, whether through a resolution or a non-binding statement.

The US delegation had also been opposed to a resolution but diplomats told Reuters they had dropped their objections and were prepared to back a text that would require what US officials have repeatedly described as a "durable" ceasefire."

Your point? This is limited to the conflict at hand and does not relate to international stability. The problem is just that it makes us look bad. Maybe in some crazy bizarro world our looking bad inevitably leads to world war, but not in the world we live in.

This conflict does not threaten international stability; Mazhi's claim remains asinine.

Israel is on ongoing colonization project.

Your point?

We live in a post-colonial world.

Apparently not, since you admit that there is an ongoing colonization project in the world today. I could cite several others, most notably Morocco in Western Sahara.

The people around Israel are literate and media-savvy. They don't think of the Israelis as white gods.

Frivolous remark.

This situation - callous colonizers/educated displaced locals - is highly destabilizing.

To whom?

And the colonial narrative has been discredited along

By whom?

with the racial theories that lead to it.

Which racial theories, and more specifically, which racial theories are being used by Israel to justify its policies in the occupied territories?

[Noelnada]

If a state has to take into account fucking protestors, nothing will ever get done.

It's not just about protestors.

Maybe in some crazy bizarro world our looking bad inevitably leads to world war

This is not the point i tried to make.

This conflict does not threaten international stability; Mazhi's claim remains asinine.

Still that this conflict could have been avoided and is not advantaging to the US/Israeli interests.

[Dave]

It's not just about protestors.

What else? The damage these protestors cause? Fuck, someone just shoot these demonstrator-gangsters already.

This is not the point i tried to make.

No, but Mazhi was advancing an argument along this line (not world war, but a threat to international peace)

Still that this conflict could have been avoided and is not advantaging to the US/Israeli interests.

Agreed.

[Noelnada]

What else? The damage these protestors cause? Fuck, someone just shoot these demonstrator-gangsters already.

They are part of the workforce our cruel overlords need to make the machine run, so this is an unrealistic proposal. The else is rather, Palestinian and Israeli lives and hopes to live in peace someday.

but Mazhi was advancing an argument along this line

I also did in another thread. That's just rhetorical. I have nothing more to add.

[kyleb]

According to the UN partition plan this is true, but my understanding is that both Gaza and the West Bank have been claimed by Egypt and Jordan previously, and that the borders in both cases reflect the outcomes of warfare and diplomatic treaties. Egypt and Jordan both maintained territorial claims on these areas until recently.

They never had rightful claim, and while I'm not sure about Egypt, Jordan ceded to the PLO what claim it had made around two decades ago.

Is Israel party to any treaties which require it to administer citizenship on a jus soli basis?

Yes:

1. A Contracting State shall grant its nationality to a person born in its territory who would
otherwise be stateless. Such nationality shall be granted:
(a) at birth, by operation of law...

http://untreaty.un.org/ilc/texts/instru ... 1_1961.pdf

And here is the list of the consenting states, inlcuding Israel:

http://www.unhcr.org/cgi-bin/texis/vtx/ ... =3bbb24d54

Furthermore, it was generally accepted international common law well before that, and it takes one cold hearted SOB to argue otherwise.

[QatzelOk]

Rockets from all the countries Israel wants to control have landed just as its air force have gotten their cluster bombs in order.

Rockets from the injuns are justifying the savage behavior of the cowboys, just like they did so many paradigms ago.

[Dave]

They never had rightful claim, and while I'm not sure about Egypt, Jordan ceded to the PLO what claim it had made around two decades ago.

Who determines which territorial claim is rightful? Egypt's claim was abandoned in 2006 as far as I know, Jordan's in 1988.

Yes:

[...]

http://untreaty.un.org/ilc/texts/instru ... 1_1961.pdf

http://www.unhcr.org/cgi-bin/texis/vtx/ ... =3bbb24d54

Furthermore, it was generally accepted international common law well before that, and it takes one cold hearted SOB to argue otherwise.

All right, then if the occupied territories are Israeli, which we (now) agree they are not, then Israel per its treaty obligations would be required to grant the Palestinians citizenship.

I myself am opposed to jus soli in my own country, but that is a separate issue.

[dannymu]

These rocket attacks from Lebanon just reinforce my view our Government should withdraw all our troops from Lebanon NOW. To hell with UN committments. Our troops are doing nothing useful in that country and they are certainly no peacekeepers as they are not there to disarm Hezbollah, the chief trouble-maker in the region. They are there to build schools, houses and to do some mine-clearance. All at the expense of the Portuguese tax-payer. The Lebanese don't pay us anything. And all we've built will no doubt be ruined when the next Israel-Hezbollah war starts. Such war is a matter of when not if. And when this happens it is possible our soldiers are injured or even killed. And if for some reason they get trapped between Hezbollah and Israel then they will be in even greater danger especially considering a naval force sent to rescue them would only get there after several days. And I'm sure our (mis)Government don't want to go to dead soldiers' funerals so they'd better withraw all our troops from that cursed country.

[Abood]

This is just ridiculous.

I think that anyone who wants to attack Israel should do it from Palestine, or Israel, if they manage to get in.

We don't need the fight to spread into surrounding countries.

[kyleb]

Who determines which territorial claim is rightful? Egypt's claim was abandoned in 2006 as far as I know, Jordan's in 1988.

Again, the UN partition plan determined possession of territory for the Palestinians and for Israel. The Palestinians ceded the right to the land Israel conquered in 1948 at Oslo, but still hold rightful claim to Gaza and the West Bank.

[Dave]

Again, the UN partition plan determined possession of territory for the Palestinians and for Israel. The Palestinians ceded the right to the land Israel conquered in 1948 at Oslo, but still hold rightful claim to Gaza and the West Bank.

But did Egypt and Jordan accept this plan?

[War Angel]

This is just ridiculous.

I think that anyone who wants to attack Israel should do it from Palestine, or Israel, if they manage to get in.

We don't need the fight to spread into surrounding countries.

I guess the good people in Lebanon just couldn't help themselves. Besides, both Hizballah and Hamas are run, funded and trained by various Muslim\Arab countries. I've heard they even get their shit from China... so it's all global.

[Maas]

This is just ridiculous.

I think that anyone who wants to attack Israel should do it from Palestine, or Israel, if they manage to get in.

We don't need the fight to spread into surrounding countries.

if Israel didn't cleanse the land to begin with, than the Palestinians would never have been so all over the place and esspecially in the surrounding countries to take some revenge every now and than.

[kyleb]

But did Egypt and Jordan accept this plan?

It was never their place to deny it.

[Nets]

if Israel didn't cleanse the land to begin with, than the Palestinians would never have been so all over the place and esspecially in the surrounding countries to take some revenge every now and than

If the Arabs hadn't declared war you could say the same, Maas.

[kyleb]

You say that as if Jewish militants hadn't already displaced hundreds of thousands of Palestinians throughout both sides of the U.N. partition plan borders before those Arabs declared war.

[Nets]

You say that as if those Jewish militants weren't fighting a civil war against Arab irregulars attacking Jewish towns.

[kyleb]

I know there was some of that, but can't say I've seen anything on a scale that could justify displacing hundreds of thousands of people.

[Oxymoron]

Lets put it this way how ever Israel and Palestine came about doesnt matter. Lets talk about the situation as it is today. Israel wont be forced into the sea, the Palestinians wont be either. When both sides refuse to be pawns of other Nations peace will take place.

You want Oil Prices to spike Lob some Rockets. You want to deflect attention of your Nuclear program lob some rockets. You want the people to elect the right goverment lob some mooder fooking Smart Bombs. Enough with the idiotic posturing.No one pragmatic, questions either sides manhoods get over your victimhoods and respect each others warrior spirit. Enough with this unending conflict, a fair peace will benefit both sides more then either side having dominance.