[R_G]

Since the Roman Empire split into West and East.

I go with the Mongols.

[Oxymoron]

Mongols, But if you factor in longevity then the Turks.

[Siberian Fox]

How are you defining "most victorious"?

[Doomhammer]

then the Turks.

I agree. I don't know why I agree but I do.

[Einherjar]

The initial victories of the Turk were compensated with all the losses he suffered when poor sod became sick.

The most victorious 'nation' is that which collapsed before becoming civilised ergo weak.

[W01f]

How are you defining "most victorious"?

That's what I'd like to know too. The answer depends completely on what "most victorious" means.

Looking at it one way, the most victorious nations ever would have to be the most prosperous nations today, since the victorious always come out on top and those who don't can't be considered victorious. Going by that logic you could say the United States, Canada, Australia and New Zealand are the most victorious nations ever, since along with being amongst the most prosperous nations today, they've never been successfully invaded, occupied, or lost any part of their territory to a foreign power at any point in history. They were also on the winning side of the most recent major conflicts (both World Wars and the cold war).

The British had the largest empire ever in terms of spanning the globe, and their culture and language still dominate the world today (especially if you consider American culture a product of Britain), so they could be considered a contender. Though they did lose a pretty big empire.

I wouldn't say Mongolia or Turkey are contenders at all unless you're speaking strictly in terms of number of military victories. Look at them today, they've both had quite a fall from glory. They're just two insignificant blobs on the map with nothing to be happy about these days. This could hardly be the result of being the most victorious nations ever.

[R_G]

I would put in these definitions:

How long did their power reign last and how vast was their empire, in land and in people under the empire.

Then you factor in cultural identity etc.

I mean, Alexander's Empire by all logic was the greatest in human history simply because he conquered all of the known world and promoted interracial marriages.

The Ottoman and Mongols had relatively vast empire, large influence and last for a while.

While era should also be factored in, I would put British up there, but their heyday was roughly a century, if that.

You can include the United States if you like with commercialism it has generated, I mean, you see Pepsi and Coke everywhere nowadays don't you?

But since the Cold War the United States does have a foot in most doors.

[noemon]

The most victorious nation ever are the Greeks. And not because of Alexander. But because in one way or another the Greeks have always had a statefull and respectable existence as a State even under the most notorious circumstances like the Mongol invasions which all found a wall right at the Byzantine borders just like the Normans and the Slavs and the Arabs and the Persians and the Khazars and countless versions of them and all of them at the extreme height of their power; and not merely as a "people". The Greeks have reached to "world empire"-"global player" more times than any other nation in history(Mycenea-Ionia-Alexander-Heraclius-Basil). Within 3 millenia Greek states have reached to global Empire 5 times, you wont find any nation with a similar success. They have annihilated numerous Empires, nations and you will find evil legends demonizing the Greeks in most religions(Islamic-Jewish-Catholic) and in terms of language they have disseminated their language and culture in the whole of the Globe. You cannot phrase one single sentence and not utilize Greek in one way or another, whether you are European, Arab, Slavic, Persian or Turk.

Ofc, am biased, but there you have it.

[Oxymoron]

Noemon I am so suprised you chose Greece.

Although you assign many faces to one term. Thats like saying Europe is the most victorious.

[noemon]

Although you assign many faces to one term. Thats like saying Europe is the most victorious.

No I dont. All these versions I posted are all Greek versions, am not saying anything of the sort as you claim. And am not ascribing many faces to one term. Greeks have had various faces throughout their history, and these faces I mentioned have all been Greek versions. Mycenea was a Greek Empire, just like the Ionian confederation under the leadership of Pericles was a Greek empire, just like Alexander's was a Greek Empire, just like Heraclius's(note the man who referred to himself as "Vasileus" instead of "Imperator" and replaced Latin with Greek) Empire was a Greek Empire(unless you consider the Holy Roman Empire a "Roman" Empire instead of a German Empire), and just like Basil's Empire was also a Greek Empire. And it was so according to all foreign accounts as well, remember that Europeans, Khazars, Slavs, even the Jarvardar saga all referred to the Byzantine Emperors and the land of Byzantium as Greeks and Greece respectively.

Do you know of any other nation having had so many global empires and for so long throughout the history of history?

I dont know of any.

Ofc as I said am biased, but that does not diminish these facts.

[Oxymoron]

Title of the thread: most victorious NATION, not people or ethinic group.

[noemon]

Yes, nation. All these have been States of the Greek nation, I referred to, not merely "peoples".

In point of civilization, the Greeks were the predominant race in the empire. From the second half of the sixth century, Latin had ceased to be the language of the Government. The legislation eventually became thoroughly Greek, both in language and spirit.

All empires have a predominant nation which governs the Empire. The multi-ethnic demographic of an Empire, does not diminish the role of the predominant one whose governance is responsible for the Empire.

[Oxymoron]

So if you want to answer the question you should say
Sparta or Macadonia, or other Greek states. Using your Logic I would combine the Ottomans,Khazars,Mugals, into one whole Nation?

[noemon]

After Alexander, we speak of one unified nation, the Greek nation. But even before Alexander when Pericles addressed the Greeks he spoke in the name of Greece rather than of Athens when he referred to non-Greek enemies, juts like Leonidas of Sparta and just like Epaminondas of Thebes and Alexander of Macedon and Pyrrhus of Epirus. They were all fighting in the name of Greece according to themselves. And that is why they are all chapters in the Parallel Lives of Noble Greeks and Romans in Plutarch's monumental work, representing the Greek part.

Before Alexander we speak of various Greek states of one nation allbeit less unified than after him, which eventually became one nation, and which were of one nation. The Khazars, Ottomans and Mughals did not become one nation, nor were they ever.

Btw when I answered the question, I specified exactly whom am I referring to. If you see that I have attributed the Greek tag to somebody falsely, point that out.

[Oxymoron]

Ok Noemon whatever you say.

[noemon]

No dude, leave the irony out of this and specify. Where do you see an error? be clear and specific.

[Oxymoron]

But even before Alexander when Pericles addressed the Greeks he spoke in the name of Greece rather than of Athens when he referred to non-Greek enemies, juts like Leonidas of Sparta and just like Epaminondas of Thebes and Alexander of Macedon and Pyrrhus of Epirus. They were all fighting in the name of Greece

When they speak of Greece they are describing a culture, a people a geographic area, not a nation.

[noemon]

When they speak of Greece they are describing a culture, a people a geographic area, not a nation.

This is way too abstract to be relevant, and ofc you are conflating nation with state, but even if such a conflation is taken as valid, then when Alexander said "we are fighting for Greece and our hearts will be upon it" he is clearly referring to the Greek nation and he is head of a League(titled Hellenic League which is composed of 150-200 Greek city-states and tribes and is in itself a state with a body of laws, common currency, language and policy), just like Pericles is(who was head of the Delian League of 150 city-states and tribes, which is also in itself a state with a common body of laws, currency and policy), and Pyrrhus and Homer and Herodotus refer collectively to the "Greek nation"(Ellinikon ethnos).

Also be specific, which one of the States I mentioned above, Mycene, the Ionian confederation under Pericles(aka Athenian empire), Alexander's empire, Heraclius empire and Basil's Empire, was not a Greek nation?

[Aekos]

The Umayyads.

[Miecznik]

I choose Czech Republic as the most victorius nation ever.