the trouble between China and Japan through history - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14284433
China and Japan were never really friendly towards each other. There were some friendly episodes but it was mostly a more cold relationship.

Diplomatic relations between Japan and China are very old and can be traced back till the year 290 before christ. In that time the chinese emperor and our Queen Himiko started to exchange gifts and letters and first diplomatic relations were established.

The following years had relations at low profile but still friendly but there were already rising tensions. Japan started to intervene in Korea and supported the korean Kingdom Baekje while the rest of Korea was a chinese tributary. Later Baekje became a japanese puppet regime and Korea was in constant war. At the end of that process Japan withdraw back home from Korea and a relative long period of "silence started.

Relations between China and Japan started to get better when Japan was ruled from Empress Suiko around the year 600 after Christ. Suiko tried to be friendly with China and China also established friendlier relations with Japan. There was much trade and cultural exchange. But relations colded down again as Japan again tried to interfer in Chinas tributary nations like Korea. Later China under mongol rule tried to invade Japan twice but failed completly. Diplomatic relations were down to zero then. Then there was a relative long period of calm relations till Oda Nobunaga rose to power in Japan. Nobunaga did not start direct actions against China but encouraged japanese prirates to attack and pillage chinese ships.

After Nobunaga Japan was ruled from Toyotomi Hideyoshi. He wanted conquer not only Korea but also China and started the by far most gigantic attack Korea had ever seen. Korea suffered enormous destruction in that war and asked China for help. The Ming Emperor did send troops. So the army of Japan and the Army of China clashed against each otehr in Korea. The effect for Korea was more devastating than WW II and Korea war combined. Korea lost a large part of its population. Not a single korean city survived that war. One third of agricultural land was lost. Almost all of Koreas History was burned to the grounds. At the heights of that war Japan realized it can´t win that war and could only achieve to hold the status quo. Ming China also was exhausted and did seek for peace.

Peace talks were desastrous. It culminated in the fact that Japan did send a young aristocrat to China who acted arrogant and hostile infront the chinese emperor. He closed his speech with asking the emperor of China to sed his daughter to Japan as a whore. He did go home without results and the war went into it´s 2nd round. After few years Japan realized that Korea wasn´t worth the effort anymore and that war would not lead to anything positive and left.

The following centuries were just minimal diplomatic relations. That changed as Emperor Meiji became Emperor of Japan. While Japan did rise to become a major power in the world, China went downwards and faced humilation after humilation from western powers.

In the boxer uprising all mayor powers declared war against China. England, France, Italy, Germany, Russia and Japan started a mayor war against china.

The chinese regent Empress dowager Cixi know the war was lost from the beginning and she did send a letter to Japan tryining to make japan switch sides in that conflict, which failed...

Well thats in short the basics of the old diplomatic relations or foundations. I hope some might find it interesting
#14284652
Sithsaber wrote:Iin the end this is revisionist and ignores the vast cultural influences China had on Japan. China along with Japan were not megalithic blocks, and more of your idealized events (banzai wind especially) had more to do with Mongols than with the more rooted dynasties.


we don't divide between china and mongols. They are same for us.
#14284654
Yeah that's like saying Hawaiians and people from Nagasaki are the same thing. (which is wrong)


I assume you're going by the old barbarian trope, which should have been abandoned a century ago. Historically the Chinese ruling classes had a similar belief, and would have also classified you with the khans.
#14284657
Sithsaber wrote:Yeah that's like saying Hawaiians and people from Nagasaki are the same thing. (which is wrong)


I assume your going by the old barbarian trope, which should have been abandoned a century ago. Historically the Chinese ruling classes had a similiar belief, and would have also classified you with the khans.


Chinese went extinct with Yuan dynasty. Before that we saw them as relative equal. After that they got mixed with mongol. They shouldn't have allowed to be invaded from mongols then. Most of the soldiers trying to invade japan were chinese anyway. Kublai wasn't on the ships himself, his chinese slaves willingly followed his orders. So why should we make a difference?
Last edited by Akuma on 07 Aug 2013 19:19, edited 1 time in total.
#14284663
The Mongols were too busy having rape orgies on top of looted gold to give a shit about such elitist notions.


By the way, Mongols being 100% death demons isn't entirely accurate, (most of it is due to witnessed atrocities and enemy propaganda (gee I wonder what that sounds like) ) and their cultures and administrative centers were things to behold.
#14284875
fuser wrote:Japan got their ass kicked in Imjin war and lost the war, rather than Japan just leaving the war out of exhaustion. Yi Sun Sin (probably the greatest naval commander of all time, sorry nelson) won some epic battles at the sea and forced Japan to look for peace.


Yi Sun Sin?

Sithsaber wrote:The Mongols were too busy having rape orgies on top of looted gold to give a shit about such elitist notions.


By the way, Mongols being 100% death demons isn't entirely accurate, (most of it is due to witnessed atrocities and enemy propaganda (gee I wonder what that sounds like) ) and their cultures and administrative centers were things to behold.


We don´t care.
Last edited by Cartertonian on 07 Aug 2013 20:58, edited 2 times in total. Reason: Back-to-back posts merged
#14284882
@ Akuma



So now your argument (if one can call it an argument and not just trolling) rest on fucking spelling? And btw Admiral Yi and many would be so devasted because a random internet user have no respect for him.

Btw, the point still stands, Japan lost the imjin war and got their ass thoroughly kicked specially by Admiral Yi and peaced out, out of desperation.
#14284887
fuser wrote:@ Akuma

:lol: :lol:

So now your argument (if one can call it an argument and not just trolling) rest on fucking spelling? And btw Admiral Yi and many would be so devasted because a random internet user have no respect for him. :roll:

Btw, the point still stands, Japan lost the imjin war and got their ass thoroughly kicked specially by Admiral Yi and peaced out, out of desperation.



It isn´t trolling.
Last edited by Akuma on 07 Aug 2013 19:17, edited 1 time in total.
#14284912
I don't give a rat's ass about how you or anyone you claim to represent feel. I made a historical point related to the topic and you replied it by posting about your "feelings" about spelling of people's name. No one gives a shit, so now do you have any point regarding the topic or my argument?
#14284918
The fuck? You quoted my response about Yi Sin and posted utter nonsense about spellings and shits and when asked to retry, this is your response? How the fuck is the above reply remotely related to my response you quoted originally?

Oh, fuck it. I don't know why I even bothered.

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