[Julian658]

So you have no argument.

Why are you posting, then?



And?

Do you have an argument?

POD:

You have changed. You used to put up an argument in the old days. Is everything OK?
It seems I am posting stuff you cannot refute.

Have a great day!

[Pants-of-dog]

POD:

You have changed. You used to put up an argument in the old days. Is everything OK?
It seems I am posting stuff you cannot refute.

Have a great day!

If you have no argument, which seems the case, you can simply say so.

As far as I can tell, your “argument” is that no one should discuss Cinfederate flags because white people are being racist in much more significant ways.

While it is true that white people are racist in far more significant ways, this does not mean I am not allowed to discuss Confederate flags.

In fact, I even discussed how black people should not bother with this debate and just take down the flags.

This way, they could not waste time on this and focus on the more significant wyas that white people are racist. It seems you agree.

[Julian658]

If you have no argument, which seems the case, you can simply say so.

As far as I can tell, your “argument” is that no one should discuss Cinfederate flags because white people are being racist in much more significant ways.

While it is true that white people are racist in far more significant ways, this does not mean I am not allowed to discuss Confederate flags.

In fact, I even discussed how black people should not bother with this debate and just take down the flags.

This way, they could not waste time on this and focus on the more significant wyas that white people are racist. It seems you agree.

I agree!
A Confederate flag in front of the home of Bubba in Alabama is not even in the top 1000 problems poor black people have. OK, this is a first, we are in agreement.

Do you agree it is not a good idea to see minorities as defenseless and less than able people?
We are making progress. I see a Red Pill in your future POD.

[Pants-of-dog]

I agree!
A Confederate flag in front of the home of Bubba in Alabama is not even in the top 1000 problems poor black people have. OK, this is a first, we are in agreement.

Right. White people are significantly more racist and oppressive in many other ways. And this is why black people should just take down the flags without discussion.

Do you agree it is not a good idea to see minorities as defenseless and less than able people?

Then why do racist people do that?

We are making progress. I see a Red Pill in your future POD.

No, you are just repeating your stupid idea that people fighting racism are the real racists in a stupid and obvious attempt to distract from the real racism of bigots like people who fly Confederate flags.

And I am simply doing what I always do: getting the discussion to the point where you admit right wing and conservative racists are the real ones.

[blackjack21]

And?

And supporting black people committing crimes gets them in trouble, not you. Nice job white supremacist!

The left often practices condescending racism of low expectations with black people and other minorities (except Asians and Indian immigrants).

Well it's not just that, Tainari88 even includes prisoners and former prisoners. If you get out of prison after 5-7 for armed robbery and manslaughter, does the government really owe you a living on welfare because you don't want to pick strawberries? I find that sort of reasoning mind boggling.

It is not about laziness bj, it is about not having to be exploited.

When my grandmother got here to America, she worked as a maid. She sent money home to Ireland and helped her sister go to nursing school. Then, she was a housewife. To bring in a little bit of extra money, she was a yard duty at a local elementary school. She was lily white. The idea that only black people faced exploitation is a myth spread by today's liberal elite and their race hustler friends to divide blacks and whites on the grounds that somehow my grandmother working as a maid had white privilege while a black colleague was somehow disadvantaged. The issue in exploitation is class, not race.

They are terminating the employer-employee relationship and going with the higher paying employer. It is about OPTIONS. Not being lazy.

What if they say "I can't find work" to the welfare office when in fact they can?

You are the one who thinks people work these jobs because they don't have a work ethic.

Where have I ever said that someone picking crops had a poor work ethic?

They don't work the jobs because they are avoiding exploitation BJ.

They are avoiding hard work in the hot sun, and because it is seasonal and that provides a loophole to get on welfare, that is what they do. Do you know what "picking buds" pays? $16.50 an hour. Some pay as low as $15 an hour. Some pay as high as $20 an hour. It's generally better than minimum wage in most places in California.

There would be no illegal aliens/undocumented workers working those farm jobs in California BJ, if the Mexican employers would be paying a lot higher wages in Mexico.

I don't get to vote in Mexico, unless I do it illegally like many illegal aliens do in the US. So I have limited influence over what happens in Mexico.

A point I made earlier about Bacon's Rebellion which you never address.

I'm perfectly aware of these things. I'm just pointing out that these systems of servitude pre-date capitalism. That's why I suggest reading Harold J. Berman's Law and Revolution. It's not a tome of ideas that you would hear from me. It gives you a history of the evolution of the Western legal system.

Which is obfuscation as Noemon pointed out as one of your avoidance tactics. It is not working.

If you choose to know nothing about law and history, how am I to help you? Do you understand the difference between slavery, indentured servitude, villainy, and serfdom? These all pre-date capitalism. Capitalists campaigned to wipe these systems out, not preserve them.

African Americans are not interested in serving iced tea to some white racist women in Alabama because they got sick of being told how dirty and diseased they were and that even though they were cleaning the house well every day and polishing the silver with their bare hands that the white racist women would eat off every day...they had to go and take a poop separately because everyone knows that the white racist shit is better than the black maid's shit. That is the problem with them accepting those jobs they dumped a long time ago. Why did they get out of those professions? I would too if I had to deal with these women every day being Black BJ.

Segregation is a separate matter from the racist white woman you have constructed in your imagination. If you get rid of segregated bathrooms, what then happens to your system? Then it comes down to emotions--that primitive part of the human brain you seem to extol for some reason.

But you are completely incapable of putting yourself in that position. Why? I can put myself in their shoes? Are you so narcissistic like Trump that you can't understand why African Americans who were never lazy by the way, would avoid working in those positions like picking fruit and vegetables and watching kids and cleaning houses? They avoid exploitation.

Rubbish. I have a first cousin once removed who emigrated from Ireland, married an American woman who had an excellent job as a buyer for Macy's. She runs a daycare in her home now. Why? It pays more. Does she feel exploited? No. She's the one doing the exploiting. Do you think my maid feels exploited? She gets her asking price and a tip every week. She got paid during the coronavirus lockdowns when we wouldn't have anyone in the house. She gets a Christmas bonus. When my uncle comes down for the holidays, he's surprised because she greets him like he's her own family (he does that to her too, but forgets as he's 86 now and doesn't remember well). When my gardeners came after a few weeks of not being able to come, they still got their monthly pay and I gave all three of them a $20 cash tip. Are they getting exploited? No. They don't declare all their income, so they are undertaxed comparatively. They have to live a shady life in a legal sense, but economically they are better off than people on welfare.

Because if you have a permanent maid or servant in your home? The rich and middle-class pendejo employers would slide into exploitation shit mode, and the Department of Labor had to cope with it.

No. That's not the whole of it. Sure, you get fuckwits who won't pay. However, the reason is often that if your maid lives in your home, she is also legally a tenant. Pendejo Marxists can accept a job, get through the first pay stub, quit the job and live in your house rent free for the six months it takes to get the unlawful detainer case to trial. It's surprising that a Marxist like yourself doesn't know this first hand. I actually take a very big risk in letting my maid have a key to my front door rather than letting her in and out myself, but she is more or less like family as she serves my sisters homes, and some of my other friends too. So she just comes to the house and opens the front door and says "Hola" to announce that she's here. You don't take on a majordomo without a lot more going on. There is no more Alice at the Brady Bunch house anymore; and, that's another reason you see so much homelessness. If you cut the poor a break, the courts will hold you to it and you end up having to sell your property and move elsewhere to get out of the situation. I guess you've never heard of such situations or are so disposed to the Marxist line on everything that it does not occur to you why most rich people do not have staff that live on premises anymore when they can more than afford it.

Here is a little clip reminding you why a Black woman in those times and with that job might consider saying no to that job if she had a choice of another job or even working for her own janitorial business instead?

Most people doing that work are doing it as their own business. They also usually have a W2 job and claim poverty. They do not declare the income from their housecleaning jobs. You are remarkably naive for someone with such a strong opinion on this topic.

No, they don't love it. No one does. Get that through your skull BJ.

Nobody loves scrubbing toilets. That's why the people who can afford to pay someone else to do it are keen to do so. When someone volunteers to do it and names their price and you pay them their stated price, that is not exploitation.

Now they have Latin American women doing the jobs and they are still complaining about their lack of being able to find English speaking help. Assholes I say.

To be more accurate and polite, you could just say "rich Democrats."

In fact, I even discussed how black people should not bother with this debate and just take down the flags.

Yeah, so you could get them charged with criminal trespass and theft, and then call white people racist...

And this is why black people should just take down the flags without discussion.

That's so easy for you to say when you're not the one who is going to get arrested and have a criminal record.

[Pants-of-dog]

I fully support black people intentionally disobeying unjust laws, as we all have the moral obligation to do so. I also think that black activists are smart enough to choose their battles wisely and therefore are smart enough to engage in civil disobedience in a way that benefits their communities.

Anyone who thinks that black activists are going to blindly follow the posts of a random immigrant to Canada obviously thinks that black activists are stupid, and should be ignored because of this not-so-subtle racism.

[Tainari88]

And supporting black people committing crimes gets them in trouble, not you. Nice job white supremacist!

No Blackjack21 you don't deal with an entire system that is designed to make money off of private prison and private prison labor that is low. 10 cents an hour. That is what many prisons pay for prison labor. The prison gets paid by the state to house prisoners, they pay prison guards $9 dollars an hour and no benefits in small backwater towns like in Louisiana and then they go and farm out the prisoners for making license plates or etc for some below minimum wage to another exploiter and then they let out the prisoners with hardly any cash and they got to go and get a job and pay back a bunch of money for a lot of crime that is about drug abuse and bad choices in life. They get frustrated with their dead-end existence and prefer to go back to prison rather than have to face a life of always having nothing to look forward to. Some nations do prison a lot better than the USA does--but prison reform is not your thing BJ. Like it is not for a lot of people who think punitive stuff makes for better human beings. It never does. You treat people very badly and there is not the magical change into a better human. I read a piece on a German prisoner who killed a woman and he was in prison for a long time but the prison dealt with his mental health issues and his lack of empathy problems in a very intelligent and modern way. He wound up keeping a job and doing well and not re-offending. But the mentality for prisons in the USA doesn't like that. Safety depends on people not going nuts and feeling hopeless.


Well it's not just that, Tainari88 even includes prisoners and former prisoners. If you get out of prison after 5-7 for armed robbery and manslaughter, does the government really owe you living on welfare because you don't want to pick strawberries? I find that sort of reasoning mind-boggling.

Did you see the piece on Morgan Spurlock and on the farmers that own and run these huge farms in SoCal? Yes or no? They say the American citizens don't last at all. They don't work hard enough and they don't do the required work for the entire season. They are UNRELIABLE. Why are they unreliable? Because they have jobs that are less problematic for them to get and probably pay them better and or they don't have the physical strength for it. It is very hard on backs, arms, and etc. They complain to OSHA or get some injury and worker's comp or some form of unemployment. They don't last Blackjack. Accept it. The Mexicans are the only way those people can pick the fruit and veggies in time at peak season. Accept that the prisoners and the US citizens have other options and avoid exploitation. They won't show up. Period. They won't show up. Mexicans get paid almost nothing for farm labor in Mexico. Driscoll's exists in California and they have farms in Mexico. They pay horrible in Mexico and ship the berries from Mexico into California. Make larger profits. Ask them to raise wages in Mexico and agitate for that? They get killed. Tons of labor union Mexican organizers get shot and they find their dead bodies in Mexico all the time. Why? Trying to raise wages. You are dealing with the forces of global capitalism BJ. That is who they are. Shooting dead people trying to take their profit away. Period. Face the reality of the capitalist system that makes the Mexican and Central American workers flee their nations to work picking berries for $12 bucks an hour in California. where office workers making more than that are living in vans and cars in parking lots. Face it BJ. Don't run.


When my grandmother got here to America, she worked as a maid. She sent money home to Ireland and helped her sister go to nursing school. Then, she was a housewife. To bring in a little bit of extra money, she was a yard duty at a local elementary school. She was lily-white. The idea that only black people faced exploitation is a myth spread by today's liberal elite and their race hustler friends to divide blacks and whites on the grounds that somehow my grandmother working as a maid had white privilege while a black colleague was somehow disadvantaged. The issue in exploitation is class, not race.

You are putting words in my mouth. If you had been paying attention to what I write instead of getting defensive for calling you out on your racist shit commentaries? You would realize that the Bacon's Rebellion was about the landed gentry getting scared of white indentured servants and Black slaves getting together in 17th Century Virginia and pressuring or uniting as one against the upper class. So they created codes and laws to divide and conquer. Your mother was an immigrant and yet you are what anti immigrant? Lol. Most Mexicans do the same thing your mother did. Looking for work to support their families back home. Yet because they are the next door neighbors in terms of nations? They are what? Not entitled to be some low skilled worker like your mother was and help their sisters get through nursing schools in Mexico? What is the justification for your lack of tolerance for the Mexican vs the Irish. The Irish no longer have reasons to be coming to the USA en masse. Ireland started producing jobs for them at home. Mexico is still paying two dollars an hour and no real way of getting ahead. Thus the reason for the trip and even that is drying up now. Because the youth are finding ways of self employment now. And they are not interested in the fruit crop deal in California. So the Guatemalans are doing that and the Hondurans fleeing violence. You got to realize BJ? Human conditions are human conditions. And exploitation is not good. Women like your mother do low paid work. They usually do all over the world.

What happened to my mother? Since we are talking about our mothers? My mother was placed in a classroom based on racist shit that was horrible in her day. She finally made it out of that classroom and worked hard and got a Regent's diploma in NY state. She qualified for Nursing school because in the fifties BJ women's careers were only about three tracks. Nurse, Teacher, and Secretary. She was good at all three. She decided to go for a Nurse. She applied to Fordham University's Nursing program and as usually studied her ass off. She kept getting F's. An Irish girl (talking about Irish girls there Maureen O'Reilly decided to switch papers with my mother and names and suddenly my mother's exam was an A and Maureen's with my mother's name on it was an F. They confronted the professor and the dean of the nursing school. She said and I quote according to my mother, "No you are not going to be coming into my nursing school and messing it up with your garbage and rat-infested Puerto Rican self and bringing roaches and infestation into this fine nursing program. You people are some mixed-race low life pigs trying to make it in NYC. I will make sure you fail every course here. Go and draw pretty pictures or something. You are good at drawing but nursing is for intelligent white people, not you spics." Unquote. What should my mother have done with such a racist foul bitch? They did that BJ to black people, Puerto Rican people. Asians, etc. SYSTEMIC fucking racism of the worst sort. Consistently. That is why the Civil Rights Movement happened. Because of those incidents BJ. It is not just about exploitation. it is about not allowing people to progress due to their own innate intelligence or skills. REFUSAL TO ACCEPT THAT THERE ARE intelligent blacks, intelligent Puerto Ricans, and people from all nonwhite groups that are or can be professionals, presidents of countries, geniuses and talented individuals. But from the 'wrong' race. That is what the USA was prior to 1964.

Exploitation jobs are always there. The problem becomes like in the 1921 Tulsa Race Riots...when the Blacks become as good or better and outperform the whites and want Black POWER. That is when it becomes a problem. When they want power and won't wait and won't bow their heads down to such a racist fucked up society Blackjack. It is to be ENRAGED with such things. My mother wasn't a housewife BJ. She went to the UPR was the valedictorian of her graduating class was offered a senate seat and a free law school education and turned it down to go and study education. And she did. She moved to San Diego and got a Masters and then she went to your part of California Berkeley/Walnut Creek/San Francisco and got a doctorate there. She became an expert in curriculum and teaching and educational methods. And worked for Princeton, the American University and became a professor at Rutger's, for a while. Labor studies. A brilliant woman and very very active for justice. Due to her experiences. It led her to keep fighting. Always. No matter what. Otherwise, you accept that shit they used to dole out to people in the 1950s. Do you see BJ? How someone can not be a fucking conservative with those kinds of American experiences? Do you see why African Americans might not be pro-Republican bullshit? Do you see why there is a LEFT that screams about fucking racist shit day and night? Because there was a PROBLEM. And it was systemic and BAD. And had to be changed. That is why BJ. If your mama was told because she was Irish and wanted to go to Nursing school and could not because her people were roaches and she studied and got Fs regardless she was HAPPY? With that racist shit or would she fight for her rights? You tell me? My mother won a United Nations Human Rights award after she died. Who was she? Fighting for human rights for ALL PEOPLE of all groups from all the world. ALL OF THEM. Stop avoiding the reality of my mother's life and every Black person's experiences in those days. Because that shit did not disappear out of some two-party mierda system never feeling the pressure. They felt the pressure and they needed to get kicked in the ass. Yes, they did. (Read the part about the sixties I wrote and heads being blown off and suddenly change occurs). Next.


What if they say "I can't find work" to the welfare office when in fact they can?

Most people want to make more money than what welfare gives them. They are not going to be doing well on welfare allotment for sure. More worried you should be about corporate trillions bailout funds that the neoliberals love and endorse. But too focused on some alcoholic people who are so fucked over in life that they have to lie about only going to one job interview instead of the three a week they are supposed to do and don't. And standing in line at a food bank when the food stamp card is spent and they need one more week's worth of food. You are worried about them ripping you off rather than that massive fucking bailout they did for the uber-wealthy and the 1%. Trump has fudged his taxes and looked for loopholes that cost you a lot more than the alcoholic person on welfare that did time for ripping off a TV from Walmart for the second time in his or her life. Are you serious with this shit argument BJ?


Where have I ever said that someone picking crops had a poor work ethic?

You don't want the 'illegals' here. They are all hard work ethic Mexicans and Central Americans. Not a lazy one in the bunch. But they are what? Low skilled workers? Your mother was low skilled? Should have been sent back for not being some math genius from Ireland with a PhD to make America great again, and instead just worked menial jobs. Only genius people are supposed to be here and not shithole potato farmers or something. Do you see how disgusting that is BJ? Or do you want more examples?


They are avoiding hard work in the hot sun, and because it is seasonal and that provides a loophole to get on welfare, that is what they do. Do you know what "picking buds" pays? $16.50 an hour. Some pay as low as $15 an hour. Some pay as high as $20 an hour. It's generally better than minimum wage in most places in California.

Do you think I am stupid BJ? I worked as a social worker in Colorado? You cant get on welfare not having a legit social security number. They don't allow it. Only citizens get welfare and it is a fucking pittance and not enough to pay rent or get ahead and it is severely limited in certain states. In Colorado, it is two years that is it. If you are not a senior citizen, if your kids are citizens they give you some pittance for them but nothing for you. And in this pandemic and forced unemployment, you think people get what they used to earn while working? No, they don't. And you again worry about them getting something but you don't worry about those neoliberal ripoff freaks getting TRILLIONS in tax breaks and bailouts? The beaurocrats in the welfare office have to scan your birth certificate to make sure it is not fake and they scan your state-issued ID. The fraud is low or nil. WTF are you whining about!!


I don't get to vote in Mexico, unless I do it illegally like many illegal aliens do in the US. So I have limited influence over what happens in Mexico.

Another lie and false premise. Where is the overwhelming evidence that illegal Mexicans are voting in USA elections? You got to present two forms of ID in most polling places or in most states. I had to present my birth certificate in the Colorado voter registration deal a long time ago. Mexicans who don't have visas aren't into trying to vote illegally. That is a lie. They hardly can read ballots in English and ask for Spanish ballots and the ones who ask for Spanish ballots are the older folks who don't speak English well but are citizens. Who are they? MY HUSBAND. He grew up in Puerto Rico and prefers Spanish ballots. He can legally vote. Period. Mexicans who became USA citizens after 20, 30, or 50 years working in the USA and getting their citizenship. They vote. A lot don't bother to vote either. They don't care about who the fuck runs the country because their ass needs to be at work on the November Tuesday and making their salaries is more of a priority than voting. They should make it a paid holiday off from work and encourage them to vote. It is old and out of date with that shitty system in the USA. Here the Mexicans all vote on a holiday or a day off. Paid by the government or employer. If you don't vote? You have consequences like not getting your ID renewed until you do. Etc. You think you are living in a democracy? Lol. I get to vote from Mexico because I am A USA Citizen BJ. Your fucked up government invaded Puerto Rico and against a Puerto Rican vote imposed citizenship on us. Based on incorporation. This means the land of Puerto Rico belongs to the USA but the people on it are not constitutional citizens. But we can vote if we LEAVE OUR HOMELAND. In the USA mainland. Your gov't made the fucked up rules from hell about Boricuas voting and not me. How crazy is making people USA citizens and not letting them vote to cite legal codes from 1902 that is about the exclusion of rights? BULLSHIT is what it is. I can vote from Mexico. I won't vote for that fucking Trump. Biden sucks. I will vote my conscience. But if you bug me enough I might bother you about it. Hee hee hee. I will wind up voting twice in six years. One as a USA citizen and once as a Mexican one. I will go for double citizenship and go for socialists in both nations. Double whammy vote. The wave of the future. Global citizens who don't believe in your boxed in one nationality bullshit BJ. How do you influence Mexico? You join international worker rights organizations BJ. There are a whole lot of Americans who want living wages for people all over the world. It is called fair trade initiatives. You probably don't know about it because it sounds like a Leftist thing. You prejudiced against the Left in Northern Cali. Love the workers all over the world. Stop exploitation. Love wage justice dude!


I'm perfectly aware of these things. I'm just pointing out that these systems of servitude pre-date capitalism. That's why I suggest reading Harold J. Berman's Law and Revolution. It's not a tome of ideas that you would hear from me. It gives you a history of the evolution of the Western legal system.

I still have to get through the history of Roman Law given to me by Roberto M. a far-left Mexican lawyer in Mexico who wants me to read Mexican legal history in my spare time? He thinks American legal codes regarding Puerto Rico is total complete hypocritical bullshit and anyone who reads it has to realize how false it all is. I agree with the Mexican man who loves Emiliano Zapata and has Jesus Christ next to Benito Juarez in his office. Lol. He has Jesus Christ and Che and Emiliano Zapata and Benito Juarez...the Revolutionaries in that Mexican mans' office. I hired him to make a will for my son to make sure he inherits anything if I croak in Mexico. Children do not automatically inherit a parent's property in Mexico BJ. Not like Puerto Rican law where it falls to the children automatically. here it is different. Harold J Berman's? Hell BJ. You have no idea how hard books in English are to get in Mexico do you? Especially legal history ones...no, you don't know Senor. I do.

If you choose to know nothing about law and history, how am I to help you? Do you understand the difference between slavery, indentured servitude, villainy, and serfdom? These all pre-date capitalism. Capitalists campaigned to wipe these systems out, not preserve them.

No BJ they did not campaign to wipe them out. They had to stomp them out because the system they were implementing had to dominate. It had to expand. That happens BJ. Don't get defensive with me over what is obvious. Systems die off due to changing economic, sociological, and structural conditions in those societies. New systems emerge. I did study history BJ. A lot. You have been in technical fields for most of your life. Computer coding. I have been reading through ancient history and urban anthro and sociological texts and philosophies of everything, economics and everything else. So our 'information' is different and always will be BJ. If you want to play the condescending one with me go ahead. I don't give a shit. I don't believe I am the one who never read about Black histories of Latin American histories. You never did that and should just say, "No Tainari I never read that stuff. Thought it all fluff and liberal bullshit. I am a right-winger. Reagan is my dude. History about minorities and little countries is not my deal." Lol. It should be. But it is not. Que sera sera...


Segregation is a separate matter from the racist white woman you have constructed in your imagination. If you get rid of segregated bathrooms, what then happens to your system? Then it comes down to emotions--that primitive part of the human brain you seem to extol for some reason.

You think being told to go and shit in a separate bathroom is not going to bring up some emotions? How about this problem from real life in the movie Hidden Figures?
Oblivious to what that means. You have the same problem. That is not your deal. You lack a sense of putting yourself in someone else's shoes BJ. Why don't you do that?

Rubbish. I have a first cousin once removed who emigrated from Ireland, married an American woman who had an excellent job as a buyer for Macy's. She runs a daycare in her home now. Why? It pays more. Does she feel exploited? No. She's the one doing the exploiting. Do you think my maid feels exploited? She gets her asking price and a tip every week. She got paid during the coronavirus lockdowns when we wouldn't have anyone in the house. She gets a Christmas bonus. When my uncle comes down for the holidays, he's surprised because she greets him like he's her own family (he does that to her too, but forgets as he's 86 now and doesn't remember well). When my gardeners came after a few weeks of not being able to come, they still got their monthly pay and I gave all three of them a $20 cash tip. Are they getting exploited? No. They don't declare all their income, so they are undertaxed comparatively. They have to live a shady life in a legal sense, but economically they are better off than people on welfare.


No. That's not the whole of it. Sure, you get fuckwits who won't pay. However, the reason is often that if your maid lives in your home, she is also legally a tenant. Pendejo Marxists can accept a job, get through the first pay stub, quit the job and live in your house rent free for the six months it takes to get the unlawful detainer case to trial. It's surprising that a Marxist like yourself doesn't know this first hand. I actually take a very big risk in letting my maid have a key to my front door rather than letting her in and out myself, but she is more or less like family as she serves my sisters homes, and some of my other friends too. So she just comes to the house and opens the front door and says "Hola" to announce that she's here. You don't take on a majordomo without a lot more going on. There is no more Alice at the Brady Bunch house anymore; and, that's another reason you see so much homelessness. If you cut the poor a break, the courts will hold you to it and you end up having to sell your property and move elsewhere to get out of the situation. I guess you've never heard of such situations or are so disposed to the Marxist line on everything that it does not occur to you why most rich people do not have staff that live on premises anymore when they can more than afford it.


Most people doing that work are doing it as their own business. They also usually have a W2 job and claim poverty. They do not declare the income from their housecleaning jobs. You are remarkably naive for someone with such a strong opinion on this topic.


Nobody loves scrubbing toilets. That's why the people who can afford to pay someone else to do it are keen to do so. When someone volunteers to do it and names their price and you pay them their stated price, that is not exploitation.


To be more accurate and polite, you could just say "rich Democrats."


Yeah, so you could get them charged with criminal trespass and theft, and then call white people racist...


That's so easy for you to say when you're not the one who is going to get arrested and have a criminal record.

You are getting me very very angry BJ. You don't even realize how condescending and horrible you sound do you? I told you long ago to go and ask the Latina maid of yours to tell you why she did not go to college? Ask her that question? Why won't you? You will get an answer if you sound interested? Does she speak English enough to answer your question? She will tell you. My parents had to work for a living and where I grew up going to college or finishing high school meant money we did not have. She will lay it out for you. The reasons why people wind up cleaning up after some white people who trust them enough to clean their homes but the ones who are asking for citizenship should not come from poor places on the globe like that Trump talking about wanting Norweigians as citizenship candidates and not the Mexicans...yet he says shit like that and you don't think of your trustworthy maid and how she makes a living and is not being exploited. Ask her if she had a kid or has a child if she dreams of having them do the same work as she does? Because that is the issue BJ. Having that Latino maid of yours child become an engineer, a doctor, a professional and not to have to be doing some Republican man's laundry in Walnut Creek.

How are you going to get her there? Being a Republican foolish racist or being a man fighting for justice? That is what I want to know!

You don't see your mother in that woman? I see my mother in all mothers fighting for their kids and making a better life. So should you!

I am pissed. Better I take a breather before trying to finish a reply from your 'thoughts'. You sound horrible.

[Atlantis]

The mask is off. Trump and his supporters are openly using Nazi symbols used for designating concentration camp inmates.

The inverted red triangle was used for political prisoners. Inverted triangles of other colors were used for criminals (grey), emigrants (blue), homosexuals (salmon-colored), etc.

“Using it to attack political opponents is highly offensive,” Jonathan Greenblatt, the CEO of the Anti-Defamation League, said of the symbol on Twitter. “[The president’s] campaign needs to learn its history, as ignorance is no excuse for using Nazi-related symbols.”

The posts appeared both as organic and paid content, and were published by Trump’s Facebook page as well as his running mate Mike Pence’s account.

“We removed these posts and ads for violating our policy against organized hate,” a Facebook spokesperson said in a statement. “Our policy prohibits using a banned hate group’s symbol to identify political prisoners without the context that condemns or discusses the symbol.”

Facebook removes Trump re-election ads that feature a Nazi symbol

[Godstud]

Why am I not fucking surprised?

Time for the trump cunts to leap to his defense?


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[Atlantis]

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Liftoff, do we have liftoff?

[blackjack21]

You are getting me very very angry BJ.

Gulp.

You don't even realize how condescending and horrible you sound do you?

Is that a crime?

I told you long ago to go and ask the Latina maid of yours to tell you why she did not go to college? Ask her that question? Why won't you?

I already know the answer. She could not afford to, and probably wasn't encouraged to anyway.

Does she speak English enough to answer your question?

No. She doesn't. She also doesn't know how to drive a car.

My parents had to work for a living and where I grew up going to college or finishing high school meant money we did not have.

That's a common situation.

The reasons why people wind up cleaning up after some white people who trust them enough to clean their homes but the ones who are asking for citizenship should not come from poor places on the globe like that Trump talking about wanting Norweigians as citizenship candidates and not the Mexicans...yet he says shit like that and you don't think of your trustworthy maid and how she makes a living and is not being exploited.

See, you can't see past a racial dimension. I told you my mother's mother was an immigrant from Ireland and worked as a maid. She was white, and also worked for white people. I guess someone forgot to tell her she had white privilege? Is her experience not relevant, because she was white? Is "no Irish need apply" not bigotry or should she have looked in the mirror and seen a white woman staring back at her and felt privileged?

Ask her if she had a kid or has a child if she dreams of having them do the same work as she does?

She has three kids. Does she dream of having them do the same work she does? One of them, yes. The other two, no.

Because that is the issue BJ.

Oh, that's the issue now? I thought the issue was that black people should not have to pick strawberries, because their ancestors were oppressed. I thought US citizens should not have to pick strawberries, and it's okay for them to be "unable to find work" and for the government to pay them welfare benefits so that they don't have to pick strawberries. But it isn't about that. It's about a mother's aspirational love for her children? Am I following this correctly now? So if a black man gets out of jail having served a sentence for murder and nobody wants to hire him but a strawberry farmer, the US government should give him welfare and allow illegal aliens and migrant workers into the US to pick those strawberries because blacks were hitherto exploited and his mother loves him and has aspirations for him to do better? Maybe a doctor, lawyer, or engineer? That's your well thought out position?

Having that Latino maid of yours child become an engineer, a doctor, a professional and not to have to be doing some Republican man's laundry in Walnut Creek.

So what is your problem with doing someone's laundry? Is it the pay? Do you know what my maid gets paid? $20 an hour cash + $20 for the 30 minutes to and from travel time to my house. That's almost twice what she makes working at Target. You think that is a horrible indignity, but working for less and paying taxes to the local, state, fed, FICA, Social Security, Disability and UI + health care is a great deal? You may have finished a college education Tainari88, but I'll bet you my maid is better at math than you are.

And what makes you think these other jobs are so pleasant? My father was a medical doctor. Let's say your job is to do colonoscopies? "Hey Joe! How did your day go?" "Same old, same old. Ran an endoscope up a bunch of people's asses looking for polyps. How'd your day go?" I can't imagine it's all about the "dignity," because there's not always a hell of a lot of dignity in being a medical doctor. However, it does pay better than doing laundry.

How are you going to get her there?

Get her where? Get her to where her "wild daughter" as she puts it didn't end up with a teenage pregnancy? Tell her that her Catholic faith is just pointless, and she should have made her daughter get an abortion?

Being a Republican foolish racist or being a man fighting for justice?

I'm not a Republican. Can you point out to me where the injustice is in this? And the racism too. Where do you get the idea that doing laundry is racist?

You don't see your mother in that woman?

No.

I see my mother in all mothers fighting for their kids and making a better life.

Oh.

So should you!

And you think if I do this, some sort of magical transformation will take place. Is that it?

I am pissed.

Your argument seems to be primarily an emotional one based on your own life experiences, and seems to have very little to do with my situation or with the problem of US citizens who "can't find work" where immigrants can find it.

You see? Have you heard me say "black people should not be allowed to be medical doctors"? No. You haven't. Dr. Ben Carson--a black brain surgeon, retired--is Donald Trump's HUD director. He could have been surgeon general, director of health and human services, etc. Yet, he wanted to run Housing and Urban Development. He's a Republican, and a medical doctor. Is he a racist too? Do you see your mother in his mother? Do you see your mother in Donald Trump's mother? Do you see your mother in Melania Trump? I'm guessing that a disconnect occurs when there is a difference of political ideology. At any rate, your assertions seem highly emotional more than about pay rates or dignity.

[Tainari88]

Gulp.


Is that a crime?


I already know the answer. She could not afford to, and probably wasn't encouraged to anyway.


No. She doesn't. She also doesn't know how to drive a car.


That's a common situation.


See, you can't see past a racial dimension. I told you my mother's mother was an immigrant from Ireland and worked as a maid. She was white, and also worked for white people. I guess someone forgot to tell her she had white privilege? Is her experience not relevant, because she was white? Is "no Irish need apply" not bigotry or should she have looked in the mirror and seen a white woman staring back at her and felt privileged?


She has three kids. Does she dream of having them do the same work she does? One of them, yes. The other two, no.


Oh, that's the issue now? I thought the issue was that black people should not have to pick strawberries, because their ancestors were oppressed. I thought US citizens should not have to pick strawberries, and it's okay for them to be "unable to find work" and for the government to pay them welfare benefits so that they don't have to pick strawberries. But it isn't about that. It's about a mother's aspirational love for her children? Am I following this correctly now? So if a black man gets out of jail having served a sentence for murder and nobody wants to hire him but a strawberry farmer, the US government should give him welfare and allow illegal aliens and migrant workers into the US to pick those strawberries because blacks were hitherto exploited and his mother loves him and has aspirations for him to do better? Maybe a doctor, lawyer, or engineer? That's your well thought out position?


So what is your problem with doing someone's laundry? Is it the pay? Do you know what my maid gets paid? $20 an hour cash + $20 for the 30 minutes to and from travel time to my house. That's almost twice what she makes working at Target. You think that is a horrible indignity, but working for less and paying taxes to the local, state, fed, FICA, Social Security, Disability and UI + health care is a great deal? You may have finished a college education Tainari88, but I'll bet you my maid is better at math than you are.

And what makes you think these other jobs are so pleasant? My father was a medical doctor. Let's say your job is to do colonoscopies? "Hey Joe! How did your day go?" "Same old, same old. Ran an endoscope up a bunch of people's asses looking for polyps. How'd your day go?" I can't imagine it's all about the "dignity," because there's not always a hell of a lot of dignity in being a medical doctor. However, it does pay better than doing laundry.


Get her where? Get her to where her "wild daughter" as she puts it didn't end up with a teenage pregnancy? Tell her that her Catholic faith is just pointless, and she should have made her daughter get an abortion?


I'm not a Republican. Can you point out to me where the injustice is in this? And the racism too. Where do you get the idea that doing laundry is racist?


No.


Oh.


And you think if I do this, some sort of magical transformation will take place. Is that it?


Your argument seems to be primarily an emotional one based on your own life experiences, and seems to have very little to do with my situation or with the problem of US citizens who "can't find work" where immigrants can find it.

You see? Have you heard me say "black people should not be allowed to be medical doctors"? No. You haven't. Dr. Ben Carson--a black brain surgeon, retired--is Donald Trump's HUD director. He could have been surgeon general, director of health and human services, etc. Yet, he wanted to run Housing and Urban Development. He's a Republican, and a medical doctor. Is he a racist too? Do you see your mother in his mother? Do you see your mother in Donald Trump's mother? Do you see your mother in Melania Trump? I'm guessing that a disconnect occurs when there is a difference of political ideology. At any rate, your assertions seem highly emotional more than about pay rates or dignity.

BJ, I am not able to talk to you probably for a long time. I am really really angry. It is about things that don't have to do with you.

It is about a whole life time of calls, and worrying about my mother getting shot at by the KKK and racist violence. I have to cope with that now. Try to work through it. It has nothing to do with you.

You are just some guy swimming in that racist shit your entire life and you don't even know how it comes out on some written format.

It is very different than my life experiences Blackjack21.

Maybe that is what it is about Relampaguito? People with vastly different life experiences and it is very hard to find something they know is about commonality when it is about privileges and level of consciousness.

You and I are on two different planets.

Debates help in knowledge.

I am incensed right now....about a lot of things you have no clue about.

So I think I need to not talk for a long time here....focus on the positive. It got me through a lot doing that.

Use your instant pot there and do something with varying your recipes. It is good.

Adios Relampaguito. Adios.

[blackjack21]

BJ, I am not able to talk to you probably for a long time. I am really really angry.

Yes. I know that.

It is about things that don't have to do with you.

I've known that for a quite some time. I appreciate your maturity in acknowledging that fact, without dismissing my own shortcomings.

It is about a whole life time of calls, and worrying about my mother getting shot at by the KKK and racist violence.

I know nothing about this, and you haven't shared it with me. You have told me about your son being singled out on a race basis. I understand the fears of the KKK, as they have been notoriously anti-black for a long time. They were anti-Catholic too. My grandfather was asked to join the KKK and he declined. They didn't know he was Catholic. At his 100th birthday--and you should have seen him, you'd be so impressed--he sang to the audience. I had the opportunity to spend some time with one of his friends. A black man, and his wife, up in the Berkeley hills. It was a place of luxury homes and views then, but he had told me of how when they were young, they'd come up to the hills and enjoy the views and get drunk, and ummm. hmmm. hmm... and so forth. He told me that my grandfather was his boss, and was tough about the rules but very fair. If he had a sick kid, he could go home and tend to him, but he had to come back and do his hours. He said, after my grandfather retired, they never had a boss like that again. It was always strict, by the book.

One side of my family is posh, and has been for a very, very long time. The other is not. I am more familiar with these resentments than you give me credit, and that I don't sympathize with them does not mean I do not care about the poor.

You are just some guy swimming in that racist shit your entire life and you don't even know how it comes out on some written format.

You've been hurt badly, humiliated. You're too proud to share it. That's a big part of being a Spaniard. Pride. I will not taunt you to respond, becauese I know already that you have cursing me, but somehow you know that I have a kind heart--hardened by experience.

It is very different than my life experiences Blackjack21.

Oh, yes Azuquita. It is very different. There is an old saying, "Be careful what you wish for." Perhaps, you feel that I mock you when I talk of someone performing colonoscopies. That's not an unfair conclusion. There is a lot of element of truth to it. Do you know how a doctor feels when s/he loses a patient? How much money is that worth? It's not an easy question to answer. How do your feel as a lawyer, if you really believe your client is innocent, but gets convicted? Do the legal fees make you feel better?

Last night, I spent the evening on my houseboat with my police officer friend. He was really disturbed by this:

DA cites insufficient evidence, won’t charge SF man in fatal shooting of woman

Do you understand why? A lot of the police funding is to protect poor people from other poor people (read, protect black people from other black people). They patrol these neighborhoods. They know these people. They know them on a first name basis. So these two women get in a fight. One of them destroys the other's car. They report it to the police. An arrest is made. The son of the woman arrested is so angry-----------allegedly----------he shoots the other woman in the face. There is one witness. It's not enough for a conviction, but it's enough for an arrest. They let the murder suspect go. Do you know what my cop friends are feeling? Do you know what they are thinking? The witness is going to be killed. They did their jobs and all they did was get an innocent man killed, because of the grandstanding social justice warriors. You don't know how that feels. I don't know how that feels, but I do have to keep a cop feeling strong and worthwhile and purposeful, because he can never show that weakness to his wife. That's the way he is. A man. I'm not a Latina, but I do know something of people who feel pride in everything they do.

People with vastly different life experiences and it is very hard to find something they know is about commonality when it is about privileges and level of consciousness.

But is that about race Tainari88? They are taking down statues of Columbus. Yes, he was an Italian. But he sailed for Spain.

You know I like you, but I do not agree with you. What does my white grandmother's experience mean to you? Did she have white privilege when she was told "no irish need apply"? I don't have an answer.

Very rich white people are often very bad. Does that make all white people bad? Does that make for white privilege? Or are the guilty parties trying once more to put the yolk on the working classes to pay for their own wrongs (or their ancestors), which makes them naturally very rich?

You and I are on two different planets.

You make that so, because you invest more in your emotions than in your thoughts. You have a powerful mind, but you're afraid of it.

I am incensed right now....about a lot of things you have no clue about.

Certainly. However, I did provoke it, and you were not able to retort in your majestic manner. I hit a nerve. You are a Spanish woman. You will pick up your sword and fight me again, you will. But will you acknowledge my points? We shall see...

Adios Relampaguito. Adios.

We have a long few months ahead of us. You'll be there. Hell, if a guy like @Godstud finds himself interested in American politics, I'm pretty sure you will be here.

You thought you were going to give me the spanking Tainari88. My little Azuquita. Yes. I know your are angry. You are a Latina. That is your nature. Embrace it.

[annatar1914]

@blackjack21 ; ''A few long months ahead of us'' indeed, my friend. But, we'll get through it.

It's hard with family and friends on various kinds of divide, political and otherwise. My Russian girl, my dear heart, she doesn't understand America very well, or so I thought, but maybe she understands America better than I realized at first...

You can't eat ideas. America is built on the notion that you can, in a manner of speaking.

Politics, history, it all represents things that threaten those things that matter to a woman most, and so women are more sensible sometimes intuitively when it comes to safety, peace and security. He who dares, wins, and they love us for it when we do and have proven our success, but the circumstances that force us to make the hard adult decisions can cause friction in the interim.

[blackjack21]

@blackjack21 ; ''A few long months ahead of us'' indeed, my friend. But, we'll get through it.

Yes. Hopefully for the better. I've asked for the breakdown of the establishment, and I'm getting what I asked for, but there is a lot of ugliness in that, which I more or less dismissed out of hand.

As for our Azuquita, I'm perhaps more fond of her than she is of me. She was a little overconfident of putting me in my place, and it was not my intention to humiliate her, but just to acknowledge the inconsistencies in logic, etc.

It's hard with family and friends on various kinds of divide, political and otherwise. My Russian girl, my dear heart, she doesn't understand America very well, or so I thought, but maybe she understands America better than I realized at first...

I always assumed you were Russian. You're not, but married to one?

I dated a bunch of Russian women in the 1990s. They were all stunningly beautiful, but I found no emotional connection with them--except of course, when they disagreed with me. I remember a lecture about how Boris Yeltsin was a great man, and then he wasn't some time later, and I was wrong both times. Women are beautiful, but they come without an instruction manual.

You can't eat ideas. America is built on the notion that you can, in a manner of speaking.

Well... in an agricultural sense... if you have a hard work ethic and some implements, it's yours for the taking. America was more or less settled that way.

Politics, history, it all represents things that threaten those things that matter to a woman most, and so women are more sensible sometimes intuitively when it comes to safety, peace and security.

Yes, and Tainari88 is every bit of lovely. I will never take that away from her.

He who dares, wins, and they love us for it when we do and have proven our success, but the circumstances that force us to make the hard adult decisions can cause friction in the interim.

I've said nothing but the same thing. I'm not even saying it's morally right, but that nature favors the bold as such. And the other bits...

Let's always raise a glass to a good woman like Tainari88!

[Hindsite]

Let's always raise a glass to a good woman like Tainari88!

You must have not read the racist things she said about White people.

[Godstud]

Piss off, @Hindsite you lying shit. Tainari's said no such thing and your racist ass knows it!

[blackjack21]

Piss off, @Hindsite you lying shit. Tainari's said no such thing and your racist ass knows it!

Tell us @Godstud what brilliant insights you have.

[Godstud]

Racists stick together, don't they @blackjack21.

[Hindsite]

Piss off, @Hindsite you lying shit. Tainari's said no such thing and your racist ass knows it!

I believe most of us already know that you are another Trump hater, probably with Trump Derangement Syndrome, that will call any Trump supporter a lying racist for just having a difference of opinion with you.