[Agent Steel]

Please define socialism using your own words. Thanks.

In my own words, ok.

A socialist believes that everyone in a society should try to share all the resources between each other so that every citizen can have a decent quality of life. Everyone's basic needs are met. This differs from capitalism in which people compete for resources.

@Agent Steel We can only go by what we've seen and I've never seen you ascribe to Socialism. Left-wing? Not from what I've seen...

This is an opinion, of course, and does not change what you might believe.

I have written threads in favor of socialism. Here's one from time ago:

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=172537&p=14879920&hilit=agent+steel#p14879920

I have also written threads supporting liberalism and attacking conservatism:

viewtopic.php?f=30&t=123872&p=13520936&hilit=evil#p13520936

[Unthinking Majority]

I'm -3, -4 on the political compass.

[Drlee]

@Agent Steel

If you really are a former socialist turned conservative I would ask you to tell me where you get your information that defines conservatism. Clearly there is a vast range. There is Finfinder on one end and myself on the other. That does not mean that I am not a classic conservative.

Here are some thoughts to temper your assertions.

It is possible to be a republican conservative who believes that the PPACA (Obamacare) is too far right. Indeed it is quite possible for the most ardent capitalist to believe that universal, single payer, health care is the best way to go.

It is possible for a republican conservative to posit that the minimum wage ought to be raised. Indeed many do.

It is possible for a socialist to believe that same-sex marriage is wrong and that abortion should be banned.

Opposing Donald Trump and therefor voting for Biden does not make one a "liberal" or a democrat. And for the umpteenth time, Biden is certainly not a liberal or a progressive though he has compromised with many to form the coalition that elected him. This is not much different from Trump throwing in to the Christian fundamentalist movement to get votes even though you probably could not find anyone less attuned to their beliefs. He is the very antithesis of a Christian not to mention a fundamentalist.

Leave the labels to the simple people who need them. A young person may choose to test drives many belief systems before landing on the beliefs that will guide his/her life. And even when we feel our most confident in those beliefs something comes along that knocks us off of our smug certainty.

[Agent Steel]

@Agent Steel

If you really are a former socialist turned conservative I would ask you to tell me where you get your information that defines conservatism. Clearly there is a vast range. There is Finfinder on one end and myself on the other. That does not mean that I am not a classic conservative.

I got my information by listening to conservative broadcasters. I know how they think. I would find myself in agreement with much of their views but in stark, vehement disagreement when it came to social programs and the economy.

The only way I could learn just how socialism doesn't work is to kind of live and experience things for myself. But also much of it I would just think deeply about and come to some big revelations as a result of thoughtful analysis.

[XogGyux]

I got my information by listening to conservative broadcasters. I know how they think. I would find myself in agreement with much of their views but in stark, vehement disagreement when it came to social programs and the economy.

The only way I could learn just how socialism doesn't work is to kind of live and experience things for myself. But also much of it I would just think deeply about and come to some big revelations as a result of thoughtful analysis.

I cought you lying. "conservative broadcasters" don't think.

[Pants-of-dog]

In my own words, ok.

A socialist believes that everyone in a society should try to share all the resources between each other so that every citizen can have a decent quality of life. Everyone's basic needs are met. This differs from capitalism in which people compete for resources.

No. That is incorrect. Your definition sounds more like a first year university student who wants to like socialism but stopped listening in Intro to PoliSci when the phrase “means of production” came around.

I have written threads in favor of socialism. Here's one from time ago:

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=172537&p=14879920&hilit=agent+steel#p14879920

I have also written threads supporting liberalism and attacking conservatism:

viewtopic.php?f=30&t=123872&p=13520936&hilit=evil#p13520936

Yes, I know. None of this means that you actually know what socialism is.

Can you, for example, list three socialist movements that you have supported?

[Drlee]

Can you, for example, list three socialist movements that you have supported?

I'll answer that.

There are no significant socialist movements in the US. None.

There are some progressive issues that are supported by the Democratic Party such as universal health care but that is not really socialist. Certainly not Obamacare FGS. One swallow does not a spring.....

Careful about the so-called conservative broadcasters. They will call any government program that transfers money to people outside of the corporate welfare they support as "socialist". Socialism is NOT on thing at a time.

[Agent Steel]

No. That is incorrect. Your definition sounds more like a first year university student who wants to like socialism but stopped listening in Intro to PoliSci when the phrase “means of production” came around.

I know what socialism is. Anyone can cite a textbook definition, but I was asked to put it into my own words, which I did. At least I can think independently, whereas you can only recite what other people have told you.

[Pants-of-dog]

I know what socialism is. Anyone can cite a textbook definition, but I was asked to put it into my own words, which I did. At least I can think independently, whereas you can only recite what other people have told you.

Your insults are irrelevant.

If you cannot correctly define socialism and also cannot name any socialist movements that you support, it is more likely that you incorrectly believed yourself to be a socialist when you were not.

[Agent Steel]

I supported Bernie Sanders' movement.

I know full well what socialism is. What I stated above is entirely accurate. I'm aware that in socialism the government controls the means of production. This is totally in line with what I already stated above, that under socialism the goal is for everyone's basic needs to be provided for.

I'm not even insulting you. I'm expounding on the definition because I know what it is. This shows that I can think independently and interpret ideas.

[Pants-of-dog]

Sanders is not a socialist.

His policies would be considered centrist in Canada or most European countries.

And if you do not understand how you are being insulting, then you need to be more self aware.

[Pants-of-dog]

@Agent Steel

Again, Sanders is not a socialist. His policies are mainstream in almost all developed capitalist countries. Even according to your definition of state ownership of the means of production m he is not a socialist since he does not support that.

[Agent Steel]

@Pants-of-dog

Not only has Sanders unapologetically claimed to be a socialist for decades, but all of his critics and detractors have described him as one.

If I used to follow Sanders, then yes, I am a 100% a former socialist.

[Pants-of-dog]

@Agent Steel

If one person makes an incorrect claim, it does not magically become correct if a whole bunch of people repeat it.

[Julian658]

@Pants-of-dog

Not only has Sanders unapologetically claimed to be a socialist for decades, but all of his critics and detractors have described him as one.

If I used to follow Sanders, then yes, I am a 100% a former socialist.

For people like POD Bernie Sanders is a right winger.

[Godstud]

You aren't reading what @Pants-of-dog is saying, @Julian658. He said that from most other European or even Canadian points of view, Bernie Sanders would be more right-wing, seeing as most European and Canadian politicians are much more center than even him.

In most developed countries, universal healthcare is a GIVEN. Sanders is not a Socialist to see this.

[Julian658]

:roll: You aren't reading what @Pants-of-dog is saying, @Julian658. He said that from most other European or even Canadian points of view, Bernie Sanders would be more right-wing, seeing as most European and Canadian politicians are much more center than even him.

In most developed countries, universal healthcare is a GIVEN. Sanders is not a Socialist to see this.

I am in favor of Medicare for all. The private health insurance system is a scam, not real capitalism.

Btw, if you ask a real socialist like POD why socialism never had any success he will say “that was not real socialism”.

[Godstud]

@Julian658 I am sure that you need to ask @Pants-of-dog that question, and not me. I don't think I have ever heard him classify himself as a socialist, but then I doubt very much that you even know what a real Socialist is, as you're an American. Americans seem to have a very warped sense of what Socialism actually is. They also don't understand how Socialism can operate with Democracy.

[Julian658]

@Julian658 I am sure that you need to ask @Pants-of-dog that question, and not me. I don't think I have ever heard him classify himself as a socialist, but then I doubt very much that you even know what a real Socialist is, as you're an American. Americans seem to have a very warped sense of what Socialism actually is. They also don't understand how Socialism can operate with Democracy.

The basic definition of bigotry is to judge a person according to the group rather than as an individual.

The good coning Marxist will never be clear or concise about the definition of socialism.

Karl Marx described a socialist society as such: ... The same amount of labor which he has given to society in one form, he receives back in another. Socialism is a post-commodity economic system and production is carried out to directly produce use-value rather than toward generating profit. WIKI

Socialism is beautiful. The problem is that it does not work and must be imposed by coercion by the state.

There are stupid people that think Canada and the Scandinavian countries are socialists. Nope they are capitalists.

[Godstud]

@Julian658 So you're saying you're a bigot?

Nobody is "coning" anyone.

Americans do not understand that a socialist system can operate within the confines of a democracy, which Canada and so many Scandinavian countries are doing, to great success. Also, enacting socialist policies does not make a country "Socialist", which is something you and others think is Marxism(Communism). Also, there are DEGREES of things, and Socialism does not need to be an all or nothing sort of thing.

Socialism does not need coercion by the state. it merely needs to be seen as important by most of the people living within a population. Rampant capitalism, without checks, seen in USA, is having a detrimental effect on the society, with the wealth focused within a small group of people, and no one else benefitting from it.