[Agent Steel]

2020 was a shit year.

Economically, 2020 was disastrous for me, including the still SHIT stock market. The people who tell you it's good are full of shit. 30 stocks holding up the entire market are not representative of a good stock market!

I've lost about $100k this year and have had to resort to living on savings for the first time in a very long time. My investments aren't making any money, either. 2021 can't be any worse than 2020.

Lol, you must really bad at investing. I have no experience with the stock market and yet I was able to make money over the last year. It is a FACT that the stock market has been up while Trump has been in office.

You lost 100 thousand dollars? ROFL. No wonder you're a socialist. You can't make any money so you want me to give you mine. I get it.

[Julian658]

Lol, you must really bad at investing. I have no experience with the stock market and yet I was able to make money over the last year. It is a FACT that the stock market has been up while Trump has been in office.

You lost 100 thousand dollars? ROFL. No wonder you're a socialist. You can't make any money so you want me to give you mine. I get it.

The Trump stock market has been a boom for me too. You must realize Godstud is a lefty and they tend to hate the stock market.

[Pants-of-dog]

POD, you question is illogical. Capitalism evolved naturally. It was not imposed by the state.

No, this is wrong.

If you are unable to see how capitalism is enforced by the state, then you are not able to see things accurately enough to have an intelligent conversation.

[late]

No, this is wrong.

If you are unable to see how capitalism is enforced by the state, then you are not able to see things accurately enough to have an intelligent conversation.

You're both wrong.

It's a cooperation between business and state, and always has been.

When England was evolving into the first fully capitalist economy they did a ton of crap to make it happen, estate taxes, regulations, taking over bridges and roads, R&D money, it's a long list.

The people that held most of the power were the ultra-conservative landed gentry and nobles. They hated a lot of what they did, but they also knew they had to or kill the golden goose laying all those golden eggs.

[Rancid]

Personally, it's been a good year. However, for many, it has not been a good year. Especially the poor and uneducated.

[Pants-of-dog]

We have also been lucky. None of us lost our jobs. One of my daughters even got one. All of us are healthy.

[wat0n]

I was promoted at my job, so I can't complain personally. Those who did lose their jobs or lost relatives, on the other hand...

Now, as far as humanity as a whole is concerned, I've never heard of any year with a pandemic going on that was "good". I might be wrong though.

[Rancid]

forgot to mention.

My mom and dad beat COVID. Because my GENEs ARE STRONG!!! : Pounds on chest and grunts :!

Mom was sick, but didn't need to go to the hospital, dad shrugged it off, never felt symptoms. This was the only point in 2020 where we were a bit worried. I felt bad for my son, he was SUUUUUUUUUPER worried about his grandmom. Constantly asking me to call in and check on her. Which was super sweet of him.

[Julian658]

You're both wrong.

It's a cooperation between business and state, and always has been.

When England was evolving into the first fully capitalist economy they did a ton of crap to make it happen, estate taxes, regulations, taking over bridges and roads, R&D money, it's a long list.

The people that held most of the power were the ultra-conservative landed gentry and nobles. They hated a lot of what they did, but they also knew they had to or kill the golden goose laying all those golden eggs.

Yes, you are correct. Capitalists have always scratched the back of those in positions of influence to facilitate business. And quite often those that run the state are heavily corrupt.

POD is insinuating that the state imposes capitalism. This leaves out the individuals who on their own create business empires. Perhaps POD is talking about the state capitalism of communist China. However, Chine remains a socialist nation.

[Unthinking Majority]

So, @Unthinking Majority? Most Canadians think that we SHOULD have free post secondary education.

Nonsense.

That doesn't make it Socialism for wanting a well educated, debt-free, population.

De-privatizing a part of the economy and making it free for all who want/need it is socialism. No different than socialized medicine.

I think highly subsidized post-secondary education is a good thing so it's affordable, unlike in the US where it can be a very expensive for-profit industry.

[Pants-of-dog]

Yes, you are correct. Capitalists have always scratched the back of those in positions of influence to facilitate business. And quite often those that run the state are heavily corrupt.

This is the inevitable result of capitalism.

POD is insinuating that the state imposes capitalism.

No, I am saying that outright. I am not being subtle at all.

This leaves out the individuals who on their own create business empires.

No.

My uncle, for example, built a business empire. He was only able to do so because the state enforced capitalism. The state does so by enforcing laws and arresting people who break the laws.

Perhaps POD is talking about the state capitalism of communist China. However, Chine remains a socialist nation.

You seem to have no idea what I am talking about.

————————

@Unthinking Majority

Some places in “Canada” have subsidised PSE, for certain institutions and programs. I use scare quotes because it is actually in Quebec.

[Julian658]

No, this is wrong.

If you are unable to see how capitalism is enforced by the state, then you are not able to see things accurately enough to have an intelligent conversation.

Capitalism is an economic system in which private individuals or businesses own capital goods. The production of goods and services is based on supply and demand in the general market—known as a market economy—rather than through central planning—known as a planned economy or command economy. WIKI

[Pants-of-dog]

@Julian658

The fact that you simply quoted the definition and ignored my point about how the state supports and imposes capitalism suggests that you have still not understood my argument.

[Julian658]

You seem to have no idea what I am talking about.

Stop speaking in riddles. Tell me in your own words in a coherent short paragraph how the state enforces capitalism on the population.

[wat0n]

Stop speaking in riddles. Tell me in your own words in a coherent short paragraph how the state enforces capitalism on the population.

How about protecting property rights? You can't have capitalism, or any market system, without that.

[Pants-of-dog]

Stop speaking in riddles. Tell me in your own words in a coherent short paragraph how the state enforces capitalism on the population.

@wat0n already mentioned property rights. State enforcement of contracts is another example. In fact, most laws made by politicians, enforced by police and interpreted by courts are laws dealing with and supporting private ownership.

[Julian658]

@wat0n already mentioned property rights. State enforcement of contracts is another example. In fact, most laws made by politicians, enforced by police and interpreted by courts are laws dealing with and supporting private ownership.

What is wrong with honoring a contract?
What is wrong with owning something?

Do you realize all civilized societies need rules to live by?

Leviathan

A book written by Thomas Hobbes (1588–1679). The work concerns the structure of society and legitimate government, and is regarded as one of the earliest and most influential examples of social contract theory. WIKI

Without a government to enforce the laws you despise we have chaos.

[Julian658]

How about protecting property rights? You can't have capitalism, or any market system, without that.

No one is forcing you to own stuff. You can become a monk and take a vow of poverty. You can give away all your belongings and no one will stop you. Who us forcing you to own property? Can you tell me?

[wat0n]

No one is forcing you to own stuff. You can become a monk and take a vow of poverty. You can give away all your belongings and no one will stop you. Who us forcing you to own property? Can you tell me?

Who's forcing you not to steal others' property?

[Julian658]

Who's forcing you not to steal others' property?

Leviathan