[Cheesecake_Marmalade]

But you're wrong. You can't just make claims about language and say "this is how it is!" Back it up with some actual sources of someone other than you saying "all texts are poetic" or whatever.

[Suska]

I can agree to that with some reservation, it seems to me somewhat a matter of how loosely or tightly one interprets the meaning of words. The basic promethean (or Apollonian) complain about the poet (the Dionysian) is that words are used too loosely, but I think they are both valid and useful and a complete toolset entails being conscious of both styles and the way the particular audience (there is no "one" audience anywhere in the world)... will most likely interpret it.

The idea that all texts are poetic is as true as all texts are scientific. The pure scientist is of course wrong if he believes he has evidence by having words that relate a story, but also the pure poet is wrong if he believe he has art merely by presenting a collage of pretty words.

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But you're wrong. You can't just make claims about language and say "this is how it is!" Back it up with some actual sources of someone other than you saying "all texts are poetic" or whatever.

If you've studied Barthes youll see that he has done so, in fact this is really the first time I've seen Qatz use references properly. Qatz I wonder if you've studied Nietszche or Graves?

[Ideational Ontarian]

Can we even verify the authors or the actual sources for the Torah, Koran, or Gospels? I mean, Qatz seems to be saying that the Jewish Bible is what caused the Jews to be anti-social (allegedly) but so what? It's not like there was one guy who decided they would write a religious text that would result in a Jewish state ages into the future. So what of all this bullshit? What practical reason is there for this other than a search for a more accurate history? And if it is just a search for a more accurate history then maybe we could dispense with all the ridiculous conclusions people are making.

[QatzelOk]

Qatz seems to be saying that the Jewish Bible is what caused the Jews to be anti-social (allegedly) but so what?

That a text supplanted social reality for so many Jews since that text became "legitimate" is of concern to anyone who cares about politics, IO. A particular book can ruin millions of lives over centuries, both Jews and non-Jews.

It's not like there was one guy who decided they would write a religious text that would result in a Jewish state ages into the future.

Most religious texts are written by more than one person, and are the result of years of collective knowledge or insight. So they are socially-constructed just like the societies that produce them (and they, in turn, produce societies, and so on, and so on.)

Text can send humanity into dangerous feedback loops that destroy everything that is real and true, and that is the major problem I have with it. Inappropriate use of important texts has plagued humanity, and it can be asked whether mankind has even benefited from it at all.

Garden of Eden versus Axis of Evil

[babilonian]

Thats what I'm talking about. Muslims always go around trying to question the bible and the torah. Never though question the quran. thats simply because they think that its God's word and therefore no need to investigate or research. does anyone know Where is the oldest copy of the quran is? How old is it?
Most people don't know that the original arabic text of the quran was written without dotts. This will have multiple meanings of words if its reasearched. But ofcourse Muslims would never dare to question that.
I once had a conversation in a flea market with a muslim selling islamic books. when he mensioned to me that Muhammed is the "RING" of the prophets. I explained to him that the word doesn't mean "ring" but means "seal" as in the last prophet. But ofcourse there was no use.
Here is a perfect example of a muslim who's mother tongue is not Arabic, interpreting the Quran as he was taught.
I am not surprised at all when there are people that kill in the name of Islam because of their interpretation of the Quran.

[Potemkin]

I once had a conversation in a flea market with a muslim selling islamic books. when he mensioned to me that Muhammed is the "RING" of the prophets. I explained to him that the word doesn't mean "ring" but means "seal" as in the last prophet. But ofcourse there was no use.

A seal can be on a ring, can't it?

[Celebriton]

I also wonder if Roman try to exile the Jewish from Palestine, when Roman is collapse, why Jewish don't come back home. Why still living in other people countries or exile?

Palestinian said they are not Arab people, they are just Palestinian, not Egyptian, Phoenician or Persian. So according from article above, Palestinian is a Jewish who convert to Islam. And Israel fight with the Palestinian, actually they fight with their own brothers?

That's ironic.

[QatzelOk]

That's ironic.

It's not ironic. The rich Jewish Europeans who wanted to grab a piece of the Middle East knew exactly what they were doing.

The Palestinians who were living in that region are the original inhabitants, and the story about "Jewish people leave and go to Europe to run the banking systems there" was invented to give gravitas to their caste.

Stories are invented out of self interest. Whoever controls the texts controls the progression of history. (But he can never control the earth with lies)

[Oxymoron]

Roman try to exile the Jewish from Palestine, when Roman is collapse, why Jewish don't come back home. Why still living in other people countries or exile?

Because the Muslims or Crusaders controlled the land and were no thrilled with having hundreds of thousands of infidels and Herritics living in the Holy Land.

Palestinian said they are not Arab people, they are just Palestinian, not Egyptian, Phoenician or Persian. So according from article above, Palestinian is a Jewish who convert to Islam. And Israel fight with the Palestinian, actually they fight with their own brothers?

Which Palestinian said he was not an Arab? Although genetically close to Jews they are not Jews, they are in fact Semitic. Kurds are more related to the Jews then the Palestinians in any case.

[R_G]

So??

Kosovo has no real history at all, but the Albanians won't stop bitching about their " sovereignty ".

[QatzelOk]

genetically close to Jews

Is this gene really prominent in Kazaria?

[Oxymoron]

Is this gene really prominent in Kazaria?

No the Khazars are related to the Turks, and have slightly(By slightly I mean insignificantly) altered the Ashkenazi Gene Pool.

[QatzelOk]

No the Khazars are related to the Turks, and have slightly(By slightly I mean insignificantly) altered the Ashkenazi Gene Pool.

But Israeli historian Schlomo Sand says,

"The most significant mass conversion occurred in the 8th century, in the massive Khazar kingdom between the Black and Caspian seas. The expansion of Judaism from the Caucasus into modern Ukraine created a multiplicity of communities, many of which retreated from the 13th century Mongol invasions into eastern Europe. There, with Jews from the Slavic lands to the south and from what is now modern Germany, they formed the basis of Yiddish culture."

"Since the 1970s supposedly scientific research, carried out in Israel, has desperately striven to demonstrate that Jews throughout the world are closely genetically related."

"By validating an essentialist, 
ethnocentric definition of Judaism it encourages a segregation that separates Jews from non-Jews – whether Arabs, Russian immigrants or foreign workers."

"The Israeli forces who seized Jerusalem in 1967 believed themselves to be the direct descendents of the mythic kingdom of David rather than – God forbid – of Berber warriors or Khazar horsemen."source

This historian apparently disagrees with your "take" on Jewish history, Oxy. You might want to check him out.

[Oxymoron]

Qatz, I like this game but we play way to often. I have provided you with genetic research that proves Eshkenazis are for the most part Semitic, with a small percentage of varies European genes. What this historian claims, is just not backed up by hard evidence.

[Nets]

I love how Qatz picks and chooses to bolster his argument.

This one researcher agrees with my ideology, so all ignore all the other ones.

Oxy, I don't know why you are bothering to discuss anything with him.

[QatzelOk]

This one researcher agrees with my ideology

I actually don't have an ideology regarding the genetic 'quality' of historically-constructed master races, Nets.

Unlike you and Oxy who seem very attached to a particularly self-interested group of sense data.

[Bosnjak]

The Kazara were assimilated by Jewish women, slowly. They took like Awars Slaves, and mixed them.

[Bosnjak]

The Assimilation happened over generations, like the Slawics who assimilated the Bulgars.

Kazara exists still a Tribe in Afghanistan. Are these the same?

[Shah]

Bosjnak, I believe you're confusing Kazara with Hazara, which is an ethnic group in Afghanistan. There are different theories regarding their origins, but the most widely accepted one is that they are descendants of Mongols, who made their way to Afghanistan and eventually settled/assimilated into the culture. They have nothing to do with this Khazar Theory.

[Bosnjak]

They were one of Dshingis Khan lead tribes who came also to russia and Ukraine, the Golden Horde.