Ethics Poll - Page 3 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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What do you think should happen:

We should give the visitors what they need and wish them well
7
35%
We should imprison the visitors and study/interrogate them to find out what we can for all of humanity
3
15%
We should imprison the visitors and study/interrogate them to find out what we can and turn it to our advantage
4
20%
Other(please explain)
6
30%
#14878688
Option 2 is "...for all of humanity"; option 3 the same, but ending "...and turn it to our advantage". So "our advantage" is not the human species. Could be all of Earth, I suppose; but I got the feeling that, as an ethics question, "we" was a smaller group in that 3rd option.
User avatar
By Godstud
#14878691
We'd be obligated to help them, as it is doubtful that they would be alone, and not be able to communicate with others of their kind. It'd be a pretty sorry human race if aliens came to rescue their friends and found out we'd exploited, and tortured their friends. Bye bye humanity...

We'd also have a tough time saying we HAD humanity, were we to do such things, too. Helping them would be the only thing that could possibly avert disaster, and in exchange they would probably help us out with some possibly trivial things, with their advanced tech.

Thinking we could reverse engineer alien technology is like thinking a cave man could reverse engineer a F-117 Stealth fighter. :lol:
User avatar
By 4cal
#14878754
Godstud wrote:Everything you can find on earth can be found in larger and purer quantities in other places in the universe. Earth is, by no means, unique as far as resources go. It’s actually quite low in them.

Really? What planet has more palm trees? Please post pictures to illustrate your intellect (or lack thereof)

Godstud wrote:I'm not worked up. I find the Hollywood mentality to be quite silly, and very ignorant, though.

Clearly…that is why you’re on at 3 AM discussing it.


Godstud wrote:What does two idiots in the wild have anything to do with aliens not needing our help or primitive technology to survive? Are we going to introduce them to vaccines? Are we going to teach them the wonders of internal combustion engines?


It highlights the silliness of your position. For all we know, the only “edge” the aliens have on us is that they have developed interstellar travel. Their civilization may have no music, no poetry, no helium….whatever. The clear analogy that you missed in your non-worked-up rant was that you can be ultra advanced in one area and totally clueless in another.

I’m guessing that if Warren Buffet was asked to explain Motzart’s genius, he’d probably sound as like Fred Flintstone. Monetary genius? Absolutely. Classical music forensic specialist? I’m betting not.
User avatar
By 4cal
#14878756
Prosthetic Conscience wrote:Option 2 is "...for all of humanity"; option 3 the same, but ending "...and turn it to our advantage". So "our advantage" is not the human species. Could be all of Earth, I suppose; but I got the feeling that, as an ethics question, “we" was a smaller group in that 3rd option.


correct…purposely left it to the reader to determine what “our advantage” meant.
User avatar
By fuser
#14878880
Can we fuck them? Will I get space aids? So many questions so little time....
By foxdemon
#14878887
So, I was thinking....

Imagine if you are on a space ship travelling between the stars. Since it is such a long journey, you grow your food. Alfalfa and mushrooms. That’s it for 20 years.

Finally you arrive in a new star system inhabited by an alien species. Surely, after 20 years of alfalfa and mushrooms, the first thing to cross your mind when you meet them is to wonder what they taste like. Some ET burgers would sure be a nice change.

We must expect the aliens to be like us. Therefore it might be advisable to run in terror if you encounter aliens before you get served up on the BBQ.
User avatar
By SolarCross
#14878898
4cal wrote:It highlights the silliness of your position. For all we know, the only “edge” the aliens have on us is that they have developed interstellar travel. Their civilization may have no music, no poetry, no helium….whatever. The clear analogy that you missed in your non-worked-up rant was that you can be ultra advanced in one area and totally clueless in another.

I’m guessing that if Warren Buffet was asked to explain Motzart’s genius, he’d probably sound as like Fred Flintstone. Monetary genius? Absolutely. Classical music forensic specialist? I’m betting not.

This is a good point. To add to it we tend to think of interstellar travel as being particularly difficult but actually a lot of that difficulty comes down to the technical challenges posed by our own particular physical condition and not so much from actual technical difficulty of pelting a solid object into the heavens:

- we don't live too long, so for us to cross the vast interstellar distances in a reasonable amount of time we would need to push as close to the speed of light as we can or just accept intergenerational flight times on a space ark either approach are highly energy and resource intensive and thus technically demanding. But for a species with a very long lifespan or the ability to go dormant for long periods then travel times taking centuries or even thousands of years are bearable and so consequently even primitive rockets such as we have now would do just fine for interstellar travel.

- outer space is a supremely hostile environment for us, a lot of the technical challenge of space travel comes down to keeping our biological bodies alive in this environment utterly hostile to us, lacking atmosphere, oxygen, awash with deadly radiation etc. Aliens with a different physiology might find the interstellar vacuum less fatal, perhaps even being able to survive without cover in the vacuum. For such a species interstellar travel would present a much easier technical challenge.

- Earth has a fairly steep gravity well. Earth is a moderately big and dense planet consequently it's gravity well is steep. This makes for a substantial barrier for getting out into space which affects all the logistics of space travel. An alien from another world which was smaller or lighter would be able to get to and from space much easier.

Consequent to these factors it is quite possible that these hypothetical aliens weren't even that advanced in space technology depending on their physiology and such.
User avatar
By 4cal
#14878909
SolarCross wrote:This is a good point. To add to it we tend to think of interstellar travel as being particularly difficult but actually a lot of that difficulty comes down to the technical challenges posed by our own particular physical condition and not so much from actual technical difficulty of pelting a solid object into the heavens:

- we don't live too long, so for us to cross the vast interstellar distances in a reasonable amount of time we would need to push as close to the speed of light as we can or just accept intergenerational flight times on a space ark either approach are highly energy and resource intensive and thus technically demanding. But for a species with a very long lifespan or the ability to go dormant for long periods then travel times taking centuries or even thousands of years are bearable and so consequently even primitive rockets such as we have now would do just fine for interstellar travel.

- outer space is a supremely hostile environment for us, a lot of the technical challenge of space travel comes down to keeping our biological bodies alive in this environment utterly hostile to us, lacking atmosphere, oxygen, awash with deadly radiation etc. Aliens with a different physiology might find the interstellar vacuum less fatal, perhaps even being able to survive without cover in the vacuum. For such a species interstellar travel would present a much easier technical challenge.

- Earth has a fairly steep gravity well. Earth is a moderately big and dense planet consequently it's gravity well is steep. This makes for a substantial barrier for getting out into space which affects all the logistics of space travel. An alien from another world which was smaller or lighter would be able to get to and from space much easier.

Consequent to these factors it is quite possible that these hypothetical aliens weren't even that advanced in space technology depending on their physiology and such.


Good analysis. All the trips to the moon did from a technological standpoint was demonstrate that we mastered heavy lift capabilities. I seem to remember that the science of studying the moon was an afterthought to putting our flag up there ahead of another group.

But in our hypothetical, the leaves are worthless to us pretty much but mean everything to them. I would wonder what our response actually would be as humans if faced with such a scenario.
User avatar
By Bulaba Jones
#14878932
How do you suppose an aggressive, territorial, yet technologically inferior species would feel about aliens (who are probably not that much more advanced than us if their source of fuel is carbon-based plant matter) wanting a resource that happens to be plentiful on Earth, but scarce for them?
User avatar
By Godstud
#14879002
4cal wrote:Clearly…that is why you’re on at 3 AM discussing it.
Well, since I am retired and live in a different time zone, what you call 3 AM, is not 3 AM for me. Read up on it.

4cal wrote:Really? What planet has more palm trees?
:lol: So they need palm trees for space travel? Things are made up of chemicals and they'll have the ability to create those chemicals, so palm trees will hold no mysteries for a space travelling society. It's a mundane fucking plant.

4cal wrote:It highlights the silliness of your position. For all we know, the only “edge” the aliens have on us is that they have developed interstellar travel. Their civilization may have no music, no poetry, no helium….whatever. The clear analogy that you missed in your non-worked-up rant was that you can be ultra advanced in one area and totally clueless in another.
That's extremely unlikely. A species that has made it to space travel is going to be far more advanced in everything that matters, and that is related to technology of space travel, and if they have no concept of music, art, etc, it's only because it holds no value to them. This is a sort of human centrism you display.

No helium? :lol: :lol: :lol: It's an element, not magic.

Helium is all over the universe—it’s the second-most abundant element.
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-ne ... eTlluGl.99
User avatar
By Ter
#14879022
fuser wrote:Can we fuck them?


Get in line, you are late to the party.
Drlee and I are checking which of their orifices would be fit for that purpose.
We thought we found one earlier but a smelly green muck came out of it.
User avatar
By 4cal
#14879040
Godstud wrote:Well, since I am retired and live in a different time zone, what you call 3 AM, is not 3 AM for me. Read up on it.

Even more hilarious is that you're still arguing the point....yeah...you're not worked up at all.

Godstud wrote: :lol: So they need palm trees for space travel? Things are made up of chemicals and they'll have the ability to create those chemicals, so palm trees will hold no mysteries for a space travelling society. It's a mundane fucking plant.

No.

You said everything we have on earth is in abundance in the Universe.

Show me palm trees on other plantets. Either that or kindly feel free to remain quiet as I have proven you to be full of shit.

Godstud wrote: That's extremely unlikely.

A species that has made it to space travel is going to be far more advanced in everything that matters, and that is related to technology of space travel, and if they have no concept of music, art, etc, it's only because it holds no value to them. This is a sort of human centrism you display.

And there go the goal posts. Lift with your legs, not your back.

Godstud wrote:No helium? :lol: :lol: :lol: It's an element, not magic.

Helium is all over the universe—it’s the second-most abundant element.
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-ne ... eTlluGl.99


Gee, maybe it's not "important to them"...LOL :lol:
User avatar
By 4cal
#14879042
Bulaba Jones wrote:How do you suppose an aggressive, territorial, yet technologically inferior species would feel about aliens (who are probably not that much more advanced than us if their source of fuel is carbon-based plant matter) wanting a resource that happens to be plentiful on Earth, but scarce for them?


I would hope that we would just give them the leaves and let them be on their way. The component piece to me would be the political tennis match that would get played before hand. I can see the governor and President kicking it back and fourth (you handle it...no YOU handle it) as public opinion polls show about the same divide we have here; then foisting it on to some unsuspecting Incident Commander like Thad Allen with the BP spill.
User avatar
By Godstud
#14879057
4cal wrote:Even more hilarious is that you're still arguing the point....yeah...you're not worked up at all.
:roll: I am responding to your statement, that was an incorrect assumption. I am not arguing it.

4cal wrote:You said everything we have on earth is in abundance in the Universe.
Everything is made up of elements. Are you going to deny that? What possible need could an interstellar alien life form need with coconuts?

4cal wrote:And there go the goal posts. Lift with your legs, not your back.
I responded to your quite infantile argument that a species that manages to advance to that of interstellar travel, isn't going to be as "advanced culturally", as humans. That's ludicrous, but in line with your human superiority idea. :roll: I suppose I should expect that.
User avatar
By 4cal
#14879068
Godstud wrote:

Everything is made up of elements. Are you going to deny that? What possible need could an interstellar alien life form need with coconuts?

What need would they have for ___________. That information isn't given to us in the thesis. All I did was point out how silly your argument is that outerspace has coconut milk (or the atoms necessary for it) when nothing remotely close to that has ever been proven.

Godstud wrote:I responded to your quite infantile argument that a species that manages to advance to that of interstellar travel, isn't going to be as "advanced culturally", as humans. That's ludicrous, but in line with your human superiority idea. :roll: I suppose I should expect that.


Never said that humans were superior...in your rage you must have just dreamt that up. What I did say was that the species only has one known "edge" on us and that is interstellar travel. They may know nothing about anything else that we have long since mastered.... they may know everything we know. However, it does beg the question. While you were blinded by rage and worried about "why would they need coconuts" when I never said they did...I just asked you to prove the existence of palm trees elsewhere..why wouldn't they not know about it...if they are supposedly more advanced than we are in every way as you keep insisting?
User avatar
By Godstud
#14879073
Wow. Everything's about emotion to you, isn't it. I'm sorry I hurt your feelings.

Do you have an actual argument, or are you going to drone on about how atoms and molecules are different for aliens and humans?

Aliens who have mastered interstellar travel ARE going to be technologically superior. Their civilization is also going to be more advanced. It stands to reason.

User avatar
By fuser
#14879114
Ter wrote:Get in line, you are late to the party.
Drlee and I are checking which of their orifices would be fit for that purpose.
We thought we found one earlier but a smelly green muck came out of it.


C'mon now you guys are too old for this shit... :p

I as the representative of all young people of Earth am ready to take this challenge for the team and for science.
User avatar
By 4cal
#14879878
Godstud wrote:Wow. Everything's about emotion to you, isn't it. I'm sorry I hurt your feelings.

Do you have an actual argument, or are you going to drone on about how atoms and molecules are different for aliens and humans?

Aliens who have mastered interstellar travel ARE going to be technologically superior. Their civilization is also going to be more advanced. It stands to reason.



Hilarious.

I simply posited a question to the board; you’re the one who tried desperately to insult it. If it was such a non-starter why did you bother to comment?
User avatar
By Godstud
#14879991
You wanted to discuss it, so I am discussing it. That is what threads on different subjects are for. I was never "insulting it" but merely pointing out how flawed it was. I cannot help it if you take an attack on your argument as a personal attack.
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