[pikachu]

Someone here claimed the UN ruled the operation illegal. I don't remember this and I can hardly imagine it given America's permanent place on the security council. Can anyone link to the resolution?

[Oxymoron]

Again using georgian figures, 9 of Georgias 12 regions were bombed which could be grouped into 36 general areas (24 near villages, 6 near towns, an adminstrative unit and infrastructure. A bare minimum of 84 raids were made with 255 unexploded aviation bombs found unexploded (conservative dud rate of 20% = at least 1250 munitions dropped), this doesnt include rockets or missiles deployed. So in all a wide range of targets were enagaged with a huge range of munitions but all conducted with strict rules of engagement, which is why civil casualties were low and civil infrastructure relatively undamaged, Isreal could take note.

Perhaps it has to do with the fact that Russias aim of stopping the Georgian military and securing Assetia, and is different from Israels Aim of stopping Rocket fire into its territory. If Georgia was shooting Mortars and Grads from Civlian areas into Russia Proper Im sure the Air Assault would have been much larger and targetted those areas.

[reddeath26]

Someone here claimed the UN ruled the operation illegal. I don't remember this and I can hardly imagine it given America's permanent place on the security council. Can anyone link to the resolution?

Not so much the resolution that you were asking for, but here is the statement by the secretary general condemning the magnitude of the attacks.

http://www.un.org/apps/sg/sgstats.asp?nid=3637

While recognizing Israel's right to defend itself, I have also condemned the excessive use of force by Israel in Gaza.

[R_G]

Legit.

It's not Palestine it's freaking Israel!

[Typhoon]

Perhaps it has to do with the fact that Russias aim of stopping the Georgian military and securing Assetia, and is different from Israels Aim of stopping Rocket fire into its territory. If Georgia was shooting Mortars and Grads from Civlian areas into Russia Proper Im sure the Air Assault would have been much larger and targetted those areas.

While the objectives of the two wars were different the important point from all this is that Russia respected the distinction between the civil population and the enemy force, showing restraint when selecting and engaging targets, even when operating in areas containing or in close proximity to the civil population.
War in the modern age is not just about firepower but also about the control of information, as with the lebannon Isreal has shot itself in the foot ravaging its own image to achieve some debatable objectives with even more questionable and barbaric tactics. Very little appears to have sunk in from the 2006 Lebannon conflict, it is unlikely to achieve its stated objective, will crucify itself internationally and betray the morality its population supposedly stands for.

[Adam_Smith]

I agree with GandalfTheGrey, the context matters . The Palestinian rocket attacks were foolish -- far too ineffective to be intimidating but more than enough to provoke a vicious response. They were the result not of strategic design but unreasoning frustration over the siege. To blame Hamas, or the Gazans generally, is like blaming the victim of an armed robbery for angering his assailant by offering foolishly feeble resistance.

[Nets]

They were the result not of strategic design but unreasoning frustration over the siege.

Yes. And the hundreds of rockets fired between the withdrawal from Gaza and Hamas' violent take over of the strip were the result of the siege as well?

[redcarpet]

The Palestinian rocket attacks were foolish -- far too ineffective to be intimidating

Exactly. If Israel is so right, why do they have to lie all the time? Just tell the truth. Easy.

[Adam_Smith]

quote
They were the result not of strategic design but unreasoning frustration over the siege.

Yes. And the hundreds of rockets fired between the withdrawal from Gaza and Hamas' violent take over of the strip were the result of the siege as well?

My reference was to the rocket attacks following the end of the six month truce, (during which Gaza was under siege). It is these rocket attacks being cited by Israel as justification for the current Israeli military actions. No doubt the earlier rocket attacks following the Israeli withdrawal were also foolish and, although I have not reviewed the circumstances of the time, condemnable as terror.

Each side justifies its own violence by citing some earlier violence by the other. However, I fault the Israeli government for foolishly expecting the brutal collective punishment of the Gaza siege to produce anything other than bitter Palestinian recalcitrance naturally led by Hamas, which is only strengthened by posing as the defender of Palestinian dignity.

[Fasces]

Dead men can't defend anything.

Radical Islamism must be stricken off the face of the Earth if there is any hope for human progress - in Europe and beyond.

[reddeath26]

Dead men can't defend anything.

Radical Islamism must be stricken off the face of the Earth if there is any hope for human progress - in Europe and beyond.

Let me make sure I am following you. Your solution to the middle eastern problems is to beat them at their own game? I find your protect the world from crimes against humanity by committing world wide genocide to be quite amusing.

[Fasces]

Nonsense. A deliberate misunderstanding in a rather silly attempt to undermine what I actually said. If you want to respond to my actual statement, feel free too.

[Dave]

Radical islamism doesn't have to be defeated. Just take all of Europe's muslims and run them out on a rail. As an Iberian fascist you must surely be appalled that the first mosque since the Reconquista was completed opened in Spain not too long ago.

[Fasces]

What's to be done? The people forget their own identities, it is hardly surprising that a people that remembers theirs will soon overtake them.

[dilpill]

Both Sucks

Obviously Hamas (or whomever you think was responsible) shouldn't have been shooting the rockets into Israel, but did they really need to respond with the intensity that they did? A smaller scale bombing campaign would have been much more "moral".

[reddeath26]

Nonsense. A deliberate misunderstanding in a rather silly attempt to undermine what I actually said. If you want to respond to my actual statement, feel free too.

You claim you are not advocating mass genocide on a global scale?

Dead men can't defend anything.
Radical Islamism must be stricken off the face of the Earth

I am at this stage unable to see how this is anything less than Genocide.

if there is any hope for human progress - in Europe and beyond.

Then you proceed to explain that such a move is the way to achieve human progress. Now answer me how, I was twisting your words?

[Fasces]

I do not advocate the mass murder of an ethnic or religious group, thus I do not advocate genocide. I do advocate the destruction of all Radical Islamists. This would not be genocide unless all Muslims are Radicals, which I am continually told they are not.

Real progress will be made only when everybody stays in their own homes, and lives as they want to. The Qu'ran says all Muslims must live in a Muslim nation. I see no problem with enforcing that.

[Typhoon]

I do not advocate the mass murder of an ethnic or religious group, thus I do not advocate genocide. I do advocate the destruction of all Radical Islamists. This would not be genocide unless all Muslims are Radicals, which I am continually told they are not.

So not genocide technically, just mass murder on a genocidal scale, what a clarification!

[Fasces]

Hardly what I said. I suspect there are many hear who would quickly have the entire BNP rounded up and shot. Does that make it a genocide? Were Stalin's purges, then, a genocide?

Please. The term genocide has lost all meaning, truth be told, as bleeding hearts continue to abuse it like an old whore.

[Typhoon]

Does that make it a genocide?

No, again it would just be mass murder and personally though I dislike the BNP I wouldnt wish them all destroyed (too many amusing gaffs). Though the major powers may not act to prevent genocide as well as they could I believe it is still a powerful term, just consider the lengths some go to avoid being labelled with the word. It is also a well defined term though I admit that people do use it in situation where it isnt technically correct.