[stephen50right]

Goon is a filthy Trot of course.

As for my assertion being correct of course it is. All the arguments you right wingers make about Marxism being bad are based on you arguing against straw men and tearing down opinions that no Marxist actually holds (aside from in your own imagination).

The truth is that none of you are actually against Marxism as none of you even have the vaguest clue what Marxism is.



They are not part of our movement, Marxists hate liberals and liberals hate us. You might have heard of the cold war? It was a conflict between liberalism and Marxism where many people died (bay of pigs, Vietnam war, Korean war etc).

Liberalism and Marxism are totally opposed ideologies that claim totally different things about the world and have totally different goals out here in the real world. Speaking of the real world maybe you should leave the world inside your own imagination and step out into the real world and have a look around one day?

I speak as an American. Karl Marx wrote The Communist Manifesto. Communism since its inception, in reality, has stood for tyranny, and you know it. Doesn't matter how you wish to define Marxism, tyranny is the result, and that's all that matters.

Americans love freedom and liberty and will not stand for a tyrannical government. Some European countries historically seem to tolerate tyranny in their government. Perhaps because Europeans were at war with each other for so many years, the general population being frightened, looked to a tyrannical leader such as a king to protect them from outside invaders.

My country got rid of a king in 1776 and there will never be another one here. We have our Constitution, we have our freedom and liberty, and we will never accept a malignancy such as communism to rule over us.

[The Immortal Goon]

@stephen50right

I'm sure you tried very hard, and it is true that the Americans declared independence in 1776. That's a good attempt to add facts to your discourse.

But nothing else has a fact associated with it, just your sad feelings.

For instance:

speak as an American. Karl Marx wrote The Communist Manifesto. Communism since its inception, in reality, has stood for tyranny, and you know it. Doesn't matter how you wish to define Marxism, tyranny is the result, and that's all that matters.

And the only administration in US history to have a friendly correspondence with Karl Marx was Lincoln's.

Just one of several reasons that Marxists love Lincoln.

[ingliz]

freedom and liberty

Prison population (2015)

US: 2,145,100 ; rate 666/100,000

China: 1,649,804 ; rate 118/100,000

Source: ICPR

[stephen50right]

Prison population (2015)

US: 2,145,100 ; rate 666/100,000

China: 1,649,804 ; rate 118/100,000

Source: ICPR

Try organizing a protest against the Chinese communist government in Tiananmen Square and see how that works out? Hold up a sign that says "Chairman Mao sucks" and see what happens?

[ingliz]

Try organizing a protest against the Chinese communist government in Tiananmen Square

Tried organizing a peaceful protest against the American capitalist government at Standing Rock. The Governor of North Dakota, who served as an adviser to Donald Trump’s presidential campaign, declared a state of emergency, and mobilized the National Guard.

[stephen50right]

Tried organizing a peaceful protest against the American capitalist government at Standing Rock. The Governor of North Dakota, who served as an adviser to Donald Trump’s presidential campaign, declared a state of emergency, and mobilized the National Guard.

Hey, I would agree with you that Native Americans in the US have gotten F*ed over the years.

However, that situation is NOT even close to equivalent to what the Chinese communist government does to their entire population, and you know it.

[ArtAllm]

I speak as an American. Karl Marx wrote The Communist Manifesto. Communism since its inception, in reality, has stood for tyranny, and you know it. Doesn't matter how you wish to define Marxism, tyranny is the result, and that's all that matters.

Communism was/is just a tool of Globalists to destroy the national states (like it is today the case with Islamism, to).

If you are a minority and want to create a Global Dictatorship, you have to use proxies. Commies, like Trotsky, were such proxies, they helped to destroy national states and national identities. During WWII Russia abandoned the doctrines of original Communism, it became a National State, Russian patriotism was restored, that is why the banksters declared "cold war" on the Soviet Russia, and eventually destroyed it. The same with China, it can not be used as a Globalist tool. Original Communism was dead since Trotsky was not in power any more. BTW, Communism was most violent under Trotsky.

Americans love freedom and liberty and will not stand for a tyrannical government.

Americans have been successfully subverted by Commies, but they are too stupid to understand that. Today, the Commie-Ideology, called Cultural Marxism, is implemented in the USA more rigorously, than it was ever implemented in any former Commie country.

Some European countries historically seem to tolerate tyranny in their government.

Europe is de facto under the control of USrael.

So yes, they have to tolerate American tyranny, especially Germany that is de facto not a sovereign country.

Perhaps because Europeans were at war with each other for so many years, the general population being frightened, looked to a tyrannical leader such as a king to protect them from outside invaders.

Europeans are not stupid, they know that their leaders are just puppets, controlled by the International Banksters and suppressed by USrael.

It does not matter, who is the leader and what he promises to his voters, he has to serve his foreign masters. Most Europeans understand that they cannot change anything, so they just live according to the principle: après moi le déluge!

My country got rid of a king in 1776 and there will never be another one here. We have our Constitution, we have our freedom and liberty, and we will never accept a malignancy such as communism to rule over us.

If you live in a Western Country, then you have only an illusion of freedom and liberty. Your country is culturally a Marxist country, ruled by USraeli banksters.
It does not matter, whom you elect, your representative will behave like a puppet.

And in most Western countries, that call themselves "free countries", you can be imprisoned if you have a non-violent opinion about some historical events that contradict the officially approved version of history.

Recently, the "Ministry of Truth" even forced Amazon to remove some books that question some historical events of the former century.

Sorry, but I cannot see any difference between this kind of "free world" and the Communist tyranny.

[Godstud]

However, that situation is NOT even close to equivalent to what the Chinese communist government does to their entire population, and you know it.

Once again, talking about something you know totally nothing about. Chinese cannot publicly criticize their government(eg. protests), but I have met enough Chinese nationals, to know that they do criticize their government, and it's not as bad as you might believe.

A lot of US propaganda against China, is just that. China most definitely has its problems, but it's not any more an evil state, than the US. Actually, I'd argue that the US is far worse, with it's foreign policy.

[stephen50right]

Once again, talking about something you know totally nothing about. Chinese cannot publicly criticize their government(eg. protests), but I have met enough Chinese nationals, to know that they do criticize their government, and it's not as bad as you might believe.

A lot of US propaganda against China, is just that. China most definitely has its problems, but it's not any more an evil state, than the US. Actually, I'd argue that the US is far worse, with it's foreign policy.

Yes, the Chinese can criticize their government, but it must be done within certain parameters of they will be arrested.

For example, they are allowed to complain if the trash isn't being picked up on time or if the mail isn't being delivered correctly...but they CANNOT complain about political matters. If anyone there would say that Xi Jinping is a lousy leader, they would be swiftly arrested and likely imprisoned.

[ingliz]

a malignancy such as communism

Capitalism (2015):

20% of American children live in poverty.

Around 13% of households (48 million Americans) cannot afford to eat at times; 5% of households go hungry everyday.

likely imprisoned.

You are over 5 tines as likely to end up in prison in the US.

At current levels of incarceration a black male in the United States today has greater than a 1 in 4 chance of going to prison during his lifetime, while a Hispanic male has a 1 in 6 chance and a white male has a 1 in 23 chance of serving time.

[stephen50right]

Capitalism (2015):

20% of American children live in poverty.

Around 13% of households (48 million Americans) cannot afford to eat at times; 5% of households go hungry everyday.


You are over 5 tines as likely to end up in prison in the US.

At current levels of incarceration a black male in the United States today has greater than a 1 in 4 chance of going to prison during his lifetime, while a Hispanic male has a 1 in 6 chance and a white male has a 1 in 23 chance of serving time.

http://www.migrationpolicy.org/programs ... statistics

Chinese migration into America: 2,104,000
American migration into China: 27,000

That is a 77 to 1 ratio.

Whatever argument you are pursuing, it's not going to work. Case closed.

[Godstud]

That might mean something if China didn't have very very strict controls on who it allowed to immigrate to their country.

Are you going to say Japan is shit because they allow practically no immigration and yet about 10,000 immigrant to the USA each year?

False equivalences is your demon, once again!

[AFAIK]

Number of Americans who visited the moon: 10
Number of Mooners who visited America: 0
Conclusion: America is shit, moon is superior.

[Godstud]

Damn. You're good, AFAIK.

Same logic.

[ingliz]

Chinese migration into America: 2,104,000

'Chinese migration' does not mean migration from the People's Republic of China.

With the passing of the Displaced Person’s Act of 1948, a quota of 15,000 Chinese were able to claim refugee status and change their citizenship to that of the United States.

In 1953, the Refugee Relief Act allowed for persons living in Communist countries to vie for American citizenship. Of the 205,000 places, 2000 were allotted to Chinese.[

After the Communist party took control in mainland China, many Chinese fled to Hong Kong and this in turn led to a refugee situation in Hong Kong. thus from 1962-1965 the Attorney General allowed 15,000 Chinese to enter as parolees due to refugee situation in Hong Kong.

Furthermore, in 1962 president John F. Kennedy's Emergency Immigration Act lead to the acceptance of 5,000 Chinese immigrants as refugees into the United States during the period of the "Great Leap Forward" in the People's Republic of China.

In 1979, the United States broke diplomatic relations with the Republic of China with the Taiwan Relations Act and gave Taiwan a separate immigration quota of 20,000 from that of mainland China.

The U.S. government's proclaimed One-China policy is not the PRC's One-China Policy.

[AFAIK]

Thanks Godstud.
It probably works for N Korea, too.

[MememyselfandIJK]

Yes, the Chinese can criticize their government, but it must be done within certain parameters of they will be arrested.

For example, they are allowed to complain if the trash isn't being picked up on time or if the mail isn't being delivered correctly...but they CANNOT complain about political matters. If anyone there would say that Xi Jinping is a lousy leader, they would be swiftly arrested and likely imprisoned.

Actually, I heard from various people who live/have lived in China that they can complain about political matters to some extent. For example they can complain about Tiananmen square, so long as they don't organize political action around it.

https://www.quora.com/History-of-China-Is-it-dangerous-for-people-in-China-to-talk-about-Tiananmen-Square-Massacre-on-Quora

Chinese migration into America: 2,104,000
American migration into China: 27,000

That is a 77 to 1 ratio.

This is mainly because of other factors besides communism. Here in the US, there is a lot of anti-China attitude, some of which may be justified (although China is looking a lot more like the adult in the room these days; they are tackling climate change and are pushing for peaceful interaction between DPRK and the US). In China, people hear about the "American Dream" (Which no longer really exists) and emigrate.

As a side note, China is hardly communist anymore. It retains the label, but is more of a mixed economy now days.

Finally, this is not my article but it is very factual and cites its sources and I feel that it is relevant:
http://writetorebel.com/2017/03/12/maos-china-a-counter-history/

[ingliz]

2,104,000

His figures are wrong by at least a factor of 2, probably more.

Before the 1980's the Chinese state was built upon a foundation of immobility: people were not supposed to move, either internally or internationally.

Emigration from the PRC to the US (2014).

Student visas (1990 - 2013): 51,000 did not return to China (got a green card, stayed on as illegals, moved to a third country, died?).

Call it 2,300 per year and count them all.

EB-5 visas: 9,100

Family visas: approx 18,000

Unskilled migration : 0 to mainland US

Total: 29.400


* Emigration to the US was a fair bit lower before 1995 (emigration policy was not fully liberalised until 1995).

** There are initiatives to encourage return but I can't find any figures for those returning.


Source: Biao Xiang, Emigration Trends and Policy in China


PS. As of June 2016, the State department's consular section estimated that there are 9 million non-military U.S. citizens living abroad: 2.9% of US pop.

As compared to 9.3 million Chinese: 0.67% of PRC pop.

[skinster]

You seem to be having difficulty with citations, and facts in general.

I can help with this. Start by watching this video:

You will see that it is standard practice, even for children, to cite where their information comes from. It is helpful for a variety of reasons.

However, you have yet to cite a single source, or use a single fact thus far. Mostly it's your feelings versus citations. Since you seem to be having trouble with the last video I sent you about your little problem, here's a slower one for younger children.

With a little practice, maybe you can start using facts too

If you're still having difficulty seperating your feelings from facts, let me know and we can try to work it out together! I have taught children before, so I should be able to explain simple things to you

[stephen50right]

'Chinese migration' does not mean migration from the People's Republic of China.

Actually, it does.

That might mean something if China didn't have very very strict controls on who it allowed to immigrate to their country.

Doesn't matter the reason, the fact is the ratio is 77 to 1