On genocide - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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Read Scenario Below

Yes, a genocide has occured, your enemy was the victim
No votes
0%
Yes, a genocide has occured, your country was the victim
1
4%
Yes, both countries committed genocide against each other
No votes
0%
No, a genocide has not occured.
23
92%
Other (please explain)
1
4%
By Wolfman
#13224486
Lets say your country went to war with one of your neighbors. This is the basic breakdown of events:
* The war was started for political reasons, with both sides pointing the finger at the other (similar scenario as the start of WWI)
* Your country eventually kills about 25% of your enemies total population, and over half that figure is civilian casualties
* Your country eventually has about 10% of your total population killed, and about 2/3 of your deaths are civilians
* However, your country has allied deaths about equal to your total deaths.
* Civilians weren't activily targetted by either side, but everyone knew that civilians were being killed, but no one cared enough to even pretend to try to stop.
* Most civilian deaths were from artillery mistakes or bombing runs over cities.
* Total civilian deaths are roughly equal
* Populations are roughly equal.
* Your enemy had higher total deaths then any other country involved.
* Genocide is defined for this scenario as: "The systematic and widespread extermination or attempted extermination of an entire national, racial, religious, or ethnic group."

So, has a genocide occured, and if so, who committed it on who?
Last edited by Wolfman on 05 Nov 2009 04:53, edited 3 times in total.
User avatar
By W01f
#13224492
Other - It depends on who started the war and why. "Political reasons" doesn't tell us much. If we started an unjust war and that scenario played out, it would be genocide (assuming we were actively targeting civilian population centers). But if we were defending ourselves from the aggressors, it would not be genocide, as our intent is not to exterminate them, but to cripple them to the point where they cannot sustain a war.
By Aekos
#13224511
Other - You haven't given the circumstances. How did those civilians die? Was the enemy attempting to capture areas that happened to have a lot of people who didn't leave yet or were people systematically taken away?
User avatar
By Bosnjak
#13224529
Yes, a genocide has occured, your country was the victim

A Serb leader said 1/3 We will kill, 1/3 We will deport, 1/3 We will make out of them Muslim Serbs.
By Aekos
#13224531
A Serb leader said 1/3 We will kill, 1/3 We will deport, 1/3 We will make out of them Muslim Serbs.


Yeah, some paramilitary extremist idiot says something and now that's somehow representative of a military force. Also, the last third wouldn't be necessary. ;)
By Wolfman
#13224532
Other - You haven't given the circumstances. How did those civilians die? Was the enemy attempting to capture areas that happened to have a lot of people who didn't leave yet or were people systematically taken away?


Ammended. Poll possibly restarted.
User avatar
By Nets
#13224541
No.
User avatar
By Bosnjak
#13224542
Aekos, The Serbian President, Karadzic threatened before the War: Bosnia will turn in Hell, and the Muslim People will dissappear, if you declare independence.



The Bosnian people declared independence with a vast majority over 70 or 80 %, the Serbs tried then to wipe us out and then to get our country. Villagante Groups attacked the Yugolav Army Bases to get weapons. In areas where the Attacks were successfull we survived, in areas where they failed we were genocided.

Most Civilian Deaths were executions.
Last edited by Bosnjak on 05 Nov 2009 05:18, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
By Nets
#13224547
Goddammit Bosnjak, that has absolutely nothing to do with Wolfman's poll, get a grip and take your Balkan sniping to the Balkan Party.
User avatar
By Bosnjak
#13224554
Mod Note: Use the username to address people. One more slip and I will have to take more serious action.

We fought at least. The Germans slaughted you without any ressitance.
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By Brio
#13224556
Umm, his user name is Nets. Unlike you he doesn't feel the need to name himself after his ethnicity. :roll:

I vote Other: The winner will hold the loser's leaders on charges of genocide regardless of whether it really is genocide or not.
Last edited by Brio on 05 Nov 2009 05:51, edited 3 times in total.
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By W01f
#13224559
Changed my vote to no given the changes to the scenario. If there is no clear aggressor and civilians aren't being deliberately and systematically killed, it cannot be considered genocide.
User avatar
By Bosnjak
#13224562
aren't being deliberately and systematically killed, it cannot be considered genocide


deliberately are often civilians killed in a war. Systematically is genocide.
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By hannigaholic
#13225145
No. Genocide has not been committed

* Genocide is defined for this scenario as: "The systematic and widespread extermination or attempted extermination of an entire national, racial, religious, or ethnic group."

Unless the reason for the war was to attempt the extermination of the other country, then it depends whether 'systematic and widespread extermination' has occurred. I don't think it has. It's a fucking tragedy, and quite possibly a war crime in this day and age, but not a genocide IMO.
User avatar
By Dr House
#13225480
No, a genocide hasn't occurred. Massive collateral damage and the systematic elimination of an ethnic group are nowhere close to being the same thing.
User avatar
By Sephardi
#13225545
We fought at least. The Germans slaughted you without any ressitance.


There was huge resistance. The Serbs would have slaughtered you all if you haven't cried to the EU and the UN. Kosovo Is Serbia.
User avatar
By Bosnjak
#13225642
@Sephardi, except the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising which was a brave fight for surviving, there was no resitance.

We cried a lot, but no help come. Only help (weapons and money) came from Turkey and Iran, without them we would be death, the Western Support was not substantiel.

Al Quds is Palestine.

Kosovo is an American colony.

By New2Politics
#13225674
hannigaholic wrote:No. Genocide has not been committed.

* Genocide is defined for this scenario as: "The systematic and widespread extermination or attempted extermination of an entire national, racial, religious, or ethnic group."

Unless the reason for the war was to attempt the extermination of the other country, then it depends whether 'systematic and widespread extermination' has occurred.

What he said.
User avatar
By El Gilroy
#13225718
25% of the population?
That is genocide, pretty much. Your mileage might vary, of course, but I'd say the term becomes rather useless if you set the bar much higher than that.

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