Is This The Solution In Palestine? - Page 2 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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Polls on politics, news, current affairs and history.

A Non-Ethnocentric Palestine?

Yes
18
46%
No
20
51%
Other
1
3%
By Celtic Communism
#13365421
Your bias is clear, PI, by the fact that this multiethnic state would keep the name Palestine.


Palestine is by far the more civilised name for it, as that is what the Romans and Byzantines called it.
By Aekos
#13365449
No, this would turn the Palestine region into an Arab state, and there are plenty of those already. The Jews, on the other hand, would once again have nowhere to go.
By InterestedInPolitics
#13365465
That's not necessarily true, A. It's a good crutch to use though, to make excuses for not making progress towards peace.
User avatar
By Sayed Zakerya
#13365487
Two states solution will never work. One secular state is the only solution. History does not support the iron wall theory. Those who believe in coesxitance are the citizens of this secualr state. Zionists should drop thier racism dreams. The have to search for some other gauranty for thier existance in Palestine than force.
User avatar
By telluro
#13365488
Yes, that was Israel, before it was attacked several times by surrounding Arab states, forcing the division between Jew and Arab. Now the situation is different, and it's mostly of Arab making.
User avatar
By Sayed Zakerya
#13365491
that was Israel, before it was attacked several times by surrounding Arab states, forcing the division between Jew and Arab. Now the situation is different, and it's mostly of Arab making
history proves that the 600.000 Jew settler in Palestine supported Palestine UN partition plan in 1947 that was opposed by the Palestinians. Arab states interferreed on May 1948 to stop the Zionist
Haganah D plot cleansing & massacres that were being executed in Palestine since March 1948. Among these massacres was Dir Yassin in April 1948 & Haifa palestinians expell on the End of April 1948.
By InterestedInPolitics
#13365528
I guess what you guys are suggesting is that we simply should just give up hope of there ever being peace between Isreal, Palestinians and Arabs. People are saying we should just quit and throw in the towel. We should just be quitters. Just call it quits. I call bullshit.
By Political Interest
#13365579
No. It would be a disaster. Multicultural Arab countries don't even work, look at the clusterfucks that are Iraq and Lebanon. Why would it ever work between Jews and Arabs? This naivete that a single-non-ethnic state would stay non-ethnic is foolish. When has their ever been a non-ethnic/religious Arab majority state? Almost all the Arab countries call themselves Arab republics and Islam has some role in their constitutions. Why would Palestine be any different?

I want nothing to do with the Palestinians. The best outcome would be to finally settle the border so that as few Arabs as possible are on the Israeli side, build a wall and forget the Palestinians exist after that. Unilaterally if need be.


Those Arab states are usually either Arab Fascist with large government run industries or they are monarchies. In both cases there are certainly many governments in the region which are corrupted, however, not all need necessarily be like this.

You wish to have nothing to do with the Palestinians? That is rather naive and tough considering that Israel was formed right in the centre of the Middle East in a land known as Palestine. You'd think you might have to deal with them on occasion. Why should they be consigned to the West Bank or Gaza Strip? Is this just and fair, to create a lanlocked Palestinian state, or one that is very small?

No, bad idea, this cannot work. Two state solution only way. Yes in ottoman times jews and arabs lived together, but then they didnt have ""strong western'' allies to **** with both sides and creating nevr endidg conflict.


What is to say that the two state solution will bring about peace? Will there not be war even after this two state solution is enacted?

Israel should be supported to annexate all Palestinian territories including its inhabitants.
The Palestinians should give up all pretentions of the stillborn state. And fight for their equal rights within the state of Israel itself. It will be violent and difficult, but eventually they will emancipate as equal citizens of the state that succeeds Israel under apartheid.


Please tell me why Palestinians should have to live as second class citizens within Israel. Why must Israel take precedence over the native people of the land and why should they live as second class citizens within a state known as Israel?

No: I live with Arabs and I do not wish that upon anybody else, multiculturalism sucks, that is basically what I'm trying to say.


Do they truly effect you in your day to day life? Canada is not in debt or crumbling to the ground because of Arabs, she is doing very well. What do you suppose is the solution to the Palestinian question?

Your bias is clear, PI, by the fact that this multiethnic state would keep the name Palestine.


What would you prefer it be called, Israel?

The Jews called it "Palestine" before Israel was founded.. (and with no negative connotations)


Very true and Palestine was seen as the Holy Land of all the faiths, not pertaining to any ethnicity.

No, this would turn the Palestine region into an Arab state, and there are plenty of those already. The Jews, on the other hand, would once again have nowhere to go.


There are plenty of people who have no where to go. Where do the Basques go? Where do the Sami go? Where do the Scottish go? There are plenty of peoples throughout the world who do not have an ethnic homeland. Why must the Jews receive this right when others are deprived of it? Furthermore, why in such a sensitive place?

I guess what you guys are suggesting is that we simply should just give up hope of there ever being peace between Isreal, Palestinians and Arabs. People are saying we should just quit and throw in the towel. We should just be quitters.


Sadly this seems to be the general tone of things now days. At least in the past people were more willing to compromise, now it seems there has been a shift towards refusing negotiations. Look at how Likud have won in Israel.
By Aekos
#13365594
There are plenty of people who have no where to go. Where do the Basques go? Where do the Sami go? Where do the Scottish go? There are plenty of peoples throughout the world who do not have an ethnic homeland. Why must the Jews receive this right when others are deprived of it? Furthermore, why in such a sensitive place?


The Basques have an autonomous community in Spain and an active separatist movement. The Scottish have a devolved government that will probably declare independence in the future. The Sami are few in number and live in a Finnic state (the Sami are a Finnic people).

Anyway, all of that is irrelevant because the Jews already have a state - Israel. Taking it away from them wouldn't be very fair. I believe that every ethnic group has the right to a state, as long as it can prove that it can keep it independent. The Jews have more than proven themselves capable, in fact, they are infinitely more capable than any ethnic group of comparative size.
User avatar
By Nets
#13365598
Those Arab states are usually either Arab Fascist with large government run industries or they are monarchies. In both cases there are certainly many governments in the region which are corrupted, however, not all need necessarily be like this.


Again, I'd like to see an Arab state that is functional before I consider turning over the reins to them. The Arab world is so dysfunctional, the thought of getting a lesson in democracy from the Arabs is just laughable.

You wish to have nothing to do with the Palestinians? That is rather naive and tough considering that Israel was formed right in the centre of the Middle East in a land known as Palestine. You'd think you might have to deal with them on occasion.


Well obviously. But I'd like to see a wall built with as many Jews as possible on one side and as many Arabs as possible on the other. Let the two sides cool off a little bit.

Why should they be consigned to the West Bank or Gaza Strip? Is this just and fair, to create a landlocked Palestinian state, or one that is very small?


The Arabs own 9.3% of the Earth's surface, Israel has 0.013%. The Arabs already have 83% of the Palestine Mandate.
User avatar
By Cookie Monster
#13365744
Please tell me why Palestinians should have to live as second class citizens within Israel. Why must Israel take precedence over the native people of the land and why should they live as second class citizens within a state known as Israel?

To be clear, I am not saying that the Palestinians should become second class citizens, I am saying that the Palestinians are second class citizens because the Palestinian state has no effective control nor viable territory. The state of Israel is hegemon in all of Palestine. So rather than to externalise their claims, they should seek their rights from within.
By InterestedInPolitics
#13365749
Political Interest wrote:Sadly this seems to be the general tone of things now days. At least in the past people were more willing to compromise, now it seems there has been a shift towards refusing negotiations. Look at how Likud have won in Israel.


Well, that's not an acceptable tone. I don't accept this tone. The security of my country is linked with what happens between the Isrealies and the Palestinians. The bickering between the Palestinians and Isrealies, costs American lives indirectly and it's not about appeasing anybody. An acceptable agreement needs to be found between the Isrealies, Palestinians and Arabs. I don't accept this status quo. Something will have to change.
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By Panjandrum
#13365762
It would require a rigorously non-partisan constitution enforced by binding commitments from regional and global powers, which while unlikely doesn't seem impossible in theory.

Tentative Yes
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By War Angel
#13365765
VforVendetta:
You know WA, I think it's possible for the Palestinians and the Isrealies to live side by side in peace and both Isrealies and Palestinians will eventually have to find a way to live in peace together. The cycle of violence can't continue forever.

Oh, certainly - just not in one country, where the Arabs are the absolute majority.
By InterestedInPolitics
#13365788
It's a shit sandwich in your part of the world. I don't know much about the Isreali Palestinian conflict, but, no doubt, it's a shit sandwich. But, some sort of acceptable agreement has to come about between the Isrealies and Palestinians. I think it's possible, but it's going to be very tough.
User avatar
By pikachu
#13366083
Good article Nets.

What about a Bosnia-type enforcement then? Bosnia has seen even worse, probably much worse crisis than Israel and Arabs ever did, and yet the Great Powers came I and forced the Bosnians to accept a single-state solution. What if we imagine a similar scenario for Israel and Palestine? A single state of two national groups, perhaps with their own autonomous entities akin to Bosnia, with a rotating presidency and where each group is assured veto power over state-wide decisions. A contingent of international troops may be deployed to ensure security. This will sacrifice a lot of sovereignty, but hey, at least Bosnia hasn't seen any wars since 1995.
By Aekos
#13366111
What about a Bosnia-type enforcement then? Bosnia has seen even worse, probably much worse crisis than Israel and Arabs ever did, and yet the Great Powers came I and forced the Bosnians to accept a single-state solution.


Because the result wasn't a failed state that won't survive the decade. :roll:
User avatar
By pikachu
#13366167
Whether it survives another decade or not is up to the international community to decide. It will survive for at least as long as they want it to.
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By Captain Sam
#13366342
Muslim wrote:I am looking. What?

Did you not read my entire post? Hard to believe you didn't, since it is quite short.

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