[Melodramatic]

In general agreement with Basshole, I'd say that centrists are usually just conservatives, with the simplest definition of the term, conserving the invented equilibrium that was fed to them. Centrism sometimes feels to me like fear of change and political apathy.

Even you Carter, the most (metaphorical) life I've felt from you was when you were defending leftist values, not your centrist claims.

[The Clockwork Rat]

We can point to events that prevented communism from developing "correctly" in the same way we can with fascism, though since the events were larger they had larger effects. There's the whole fact that the USSR had to industrialise insanely quickly to prevent being overrun by reactionaries and the Nazis.

[Cartertonian]

You may gather that I've abandoned my Centrist claims in the political sense, however I still crave balance and consensus.

[LehmanB]

Conserving pragmatic reality is often the best sollution. Genery I believe changes are better to occure slowly.

[BassHole]

Extremists doesn't use the very same tools to make people docile?

Oh, I'm not saying that. Extremists, however, are far more obnoxious in the way they go about it. "Moderate" governments are able to do so unchallenged, because they act in a more subtle manner. Basically, you know where you stand with extremists; the same is not necessarily true of the current "world order".

[Melodramatic]

You may gather that I've abandoned my Centrist claims in the political sense

oh, good . ain't I silly than?

however I still crave balance and consensus.

don't we all?

*reviews Pofo's poster list*

scratch that.

[Figlio di Moros]

We can point to events that prevented communism from developing "correctly" in the same way we can with fascism, though since the events were larger they had larger effects. There's the whole fact that the USSR had to industrialise insanely quickly to prevent being overrun by reactionaries and the Nazis.

Points in all countries? The industrialization of the USSR was necessary, but doesn't that simply draw a vulnerability that it required impeded "true communism"?

[The Clockwork Rat]

In the same way that fascism requires an "other" which leads to the strengthening of extremism.

[Figlio di Moros]

Fascism rose in plenty of countries with an "other", you can't take Nazi Germany as the only example. However, even if that were the case, it doesn't negate or draw a parallel to communism developing differetly than it's ideological format.

[The Clockwork Rat]

True, it also rose in Romania; what happened there?

Communism rose in Cuba, that's an incredibly dangerous state there isn't it?

Honestly, I'm not entirely opposed to fascism. I am a collectivist before I am a communist, but I find nationalism and hierarchy extremely distasteful and can't be fucked using word games to worm my way out of them; ergo, communist.

[Figlio di Moros]

How are they distasteful? I could, perhaps, see jingoism and caste structure as distasteful, but why should you not take pride in your culture, or be opposed that some may need to lead? Is it distasteful for a parent to discipline their child, or teach them their values? For a foreman to give direction in constructing a building, or on a factory floor? Even more so, for someone to take charge in planning and implementing a modern rail system, especially in a land as vast as America?

[The Clockwork Rat]

why should you not take pride in your culture?

Because I'm British

In seriousness, I don't necessarily see all culture as bad. Some aspects are excessive and wasteful, but others are less so. Still, pride in culture leads to the idea that one group is essentially better than another; I even see that talking to Americans with similar ideological stances to me.

Is it distasteful for a parent to discipline their child, or teach them their values?

"Discipline" is part of socialisation. Socialisation is necessary, but I don't know whether physical discipline leads to healthier children or not (honestly, I don't) so I wouldn't rule that out. Values are something that I associate with liberal thinking so I might use a different term to describe what is my

balls... I'm knackered. Pester me tomorrow and I'll try to respond more fully. I find it useful to re-evaluate my position.

[Plaro]

Because I'm British

In seriousness, I don't necessarily see all culture as bad. Some aspects are excessive and wasteful, but others are less so. Still, pride in culture leads to the idea that one group is essentially better than another; I even see that talking to Americans with similar ideological stances to me.

No it does not, to have respect and appreciation of what you are does not lead you to become an arrogant chauvinist.

[The Clockwork Rat]

But the people who make the most deal out of it tend to be aggressive nationalists

[Thompson_NCL]

To a Polish Nationalist in 1946, I'd wager Communism was the most dangerous ideology, despite German Nationalism being the cause of the biggest war in human history only a few years before. And likewise, I think many in the Saudi theocratic regime would view Neoliberalism as a dangerous ideology.

In conclusion, all ideologies are dangerous to outsiders, with no exception.

But as I despise commies, I voted for them

[Old Brit]

A difficult choice between Communism and Anarcho-Capitalism, one strips the earth bare, the other strips humanity bare, take your pick at which is worse.

[wat0n]

Centrism sometimes feels to me like fear of change and political apathy.

It's skepticism. It tends to lead to "fear of change" and "political apathy", as you say.

[three_lions]

Communism/Anarchism is my vote because both would result in the destruction of civilisation. Second place for me goes to Representative Democracy, an idea that empowers those who should be have power.

[Dave]

Centre-left (Left-liberalism, Social democracy)

This ideology is destroying the entire world.

Its commitment to libertinism and the annihilation of hierarchical moral authority undermines the basis for civilization.

Its commitment to a universal welfare state is extremely dysgenic and worsens the quality of the human species.

Its commitment to democracy paralyzes the state and shifts the locus of authority to money power and academia.

Its commitment to neoliberal capitalism annihilates the middle class and allows money relations to determine all social relations. At the same time, it threatens to senselessly deplete vital resources and destabilize the global environment.

[Rei Murasame]

It's really a bit bizarre to me how ultranationalism has got 32 votes on it at this moment, while Neoliberalism is still down at 15.

Do people really find ultranationalism to be more dangerous than neoliberalism, in 2010, after all that has been done and witnessed over the past 25 years?