Was Jesus Christ a Good Person? - Page 2 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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Was Jesus Christ a Good Person?

Yes
34
53%
No
7
11%
Other
23
36%
#13893356
Godstud wrote:Why not provide some evidence to counter, instead of creating an idiotic logical fallacy?


You honestly doubt that Jesus the man existed? :eh: There are plenty of sources that say he did exist, and none (that I know of) that say he did not exist. The point of contention is whether he was the son of god or a prophet, which is not something I am entering into.
#13893391
YES

Jesus Christ (pbuh) was such a great prophet, even the Muslims love him. 8)

Jesus: the Muslim prophet

Image

Christianity is rooted in the belief that Jesus is the Son of God, so is Islam’s version of Christ a source of tension, or a way of building bridges between the world’s two largest faiths?

Christians, perhaps because they call themselves Christians and believe in Christianity, like to claim ownership of Christ. But the veneration of Jesus by Muslims began during the lifetime of the Prophet of Islam. Perhaps most telling is the story in the classical biographies of Muhammad, who, entering the city of Mecca in triumph in 630AD, proceeded at once to the Kaaba to cleanse the holy shrine of its idols. As he walked around, ordering the destruction of the pictures and statues of the 360 or so pagan deities, he came across a fresco on the wall depicting the Virgin and Child. He is said to have covered it reverently with his cloak and decreed that all other paintings be washed away except that one.

Jesus, or Isa, as he is known in Arabic, is deemed by Islam to be a Muslim prophet rather than the Son of God, or God incarnate. He is referred to by name in as many as 25 different verses of the Quran and six times with the title of "Messiah" (or "Christ", depending on which Quranic translation is being used). He is also referred to as the "Messenger" and the "Prophet" but, perhaps above all else, as the "Word" and the "Spirit" of God. No other prophet in the Quran, not even Muhammad, is given this particular honour. In fact, among the 124,000 prophets said to be recognised by Islam - a figure that includes all of the Jewish prophets of the Old Testament - Jesus is considered second only to Muhammad, and is believed to be the precursor to the Prophet of Islam....

newstatesman
#13893397
Just because he said a few nice words doesn't change a fact that he believes 2/3 of this world deserves to suffer for eternity, just because we don't believe in him. Most people don't think you should spend more then a couple of years in prison for stealing a car, yet he believes people deserve to be tortured till the end of time for thought-crime.
#13893463
You don't believe Jesus existed? Well in that case nor did Mohammed, Henry V, Gandhi or Hitler. Ron Paul probably didn't exist either.


So far as I'm aware there's no historic evidence for the existence of Jesus. There is, however, plenty of historic evidence for the rest of your examples. Though I'm not sure about the existence of Mohammed.
#13893478
What would you consider "historic evidence" ? There are singular mentions of "Jesus" or "Chrestos" in the works of non-Christian writers like Josephus Flavius and Tacitus, for example. It's not like we can count on finding much more than this.

As far as I know the historicity of Mohammed isn't seriously questioned by anybody. Who led the Muslim armies if he wasn't real ?




I vote yes, but I'm also tempted to apply Lightman Rule here.
#13893494
What would you consider "historic evidence" ? There are singular mentions of "Jesus" or "Chrestos" in the works of non-Christian writers like Josephus Flavius and Tacitus, for example


They probably also mentioned Ra in their works. Does that mean that Ra exists?

As far as I know the historicity of Mohammed isn't seriously questioned by anybody. Who led the Muslim armies if he wasn't real ?


I've heard some claim that the stories of Mohammed are possibly an amalgamation of a few people, but that the actual person "Mohammed" didn't exist.
#13893501
Publius wrote:They probably also mentioned Ra in their works. Does that mean that Ra exists?


Great :up:

Only that some of those sources mention Jesus specifically as a man who instigated political riots (which we know for sure actually took place then) and who was tried by Pontius (a man we also know to have existed), that's a far cry from purely mythological stories (altough granted - not the be all and end all of proofs). And as I said, those writers weren't Christians, even often hostile to the religion, so they had no reason to just make him up.


In Palestine at that time there were many traveling preachers (like Hanina ben Dosa), a guy like Jesus is not out of place. It's simply that his shit sold and lasted, while others' didn't.
#13893527
You mentioned it yourself: Travelling preachers weren't uncommon at the time. It is very possible that there was some guy actually named Jesus who was a wandering preacher, and he became synonymous with all wandering preachers. Or the fact that Jesus means "God saves" and Christ means "The anointed" could mean it was a catch-all name for wandering preachers and that the historic evidence of Jesus (or maybe even the biblical stories of Jesus) were just thrown together from different wandering preachers called "Jesus Christ"
#13893530
Q wrote:you might as well ask whether this is good or not: Image
This is evil.
#13893531
Jesus (or Yeshua in Hebrew) was a fairly common name back then. The real question is, assuming there was at least 1 preacher named Yeshua, did he have enough influence to the point of threatening the Roman Empire through his preachings as described in the New Testament? If so, how come there is only incidental evidence of his existence besides the New Testament?
Last edited by wat0n on 10 Feb 2012 18:30, edited 1 time in total.
#13893535
I love it when people pretend their minds are made of meat so they can say of someone elses signifiers they are meaningless. Its a free circus here, clowns and chicken head eating freaks make me laugh. I hear you guys saying "Look at the fools using 'words' as if talking didn't mean you were wrong..." and if I point out that you're talking too will you say that its different? Someone standing on the mountain peak says he can see all the way to the ocean, you - a bit of the ways down that mountain, you think he must be lying...

Jesus is or never was, stop trying to measure people's faith with a shoe sizer.
#13893568
You can't measure faith. You either have it, or you don't. There's not scale of 1 to 10, for it. :lol:

Thompson_NCL wrote:You honestly doubt that Jesus the man existed?
There are plenty of sources that say he did exist, and none (that I know of) that say he did not exist. The point of contention is whether he was the son of god or a prophet, which is not something I am entering into.
Please provide these sources, if this is the case. I don't need to provide sources to demonstrate that Ron Paul, Gandhi, etc. exist. You are well aware of it. It's history.

Despite North America being heavily religious(Christianity-wise), we still do not have Jesus Christ mentioned in history class. Why? Because there's really no scientific evidence of his existence. He's not a historic figure like those other men you mentioned.

For that matter we know King Arthur didn't exist as the person we heard of in stories, too. Some think he might have been a 5th century warlord, but the rest is fanciful embellishment.
#13893585
Zionist Nationalist wrote:Mohammed was a terrorist


A "terrorist" would have blamed Jews for the crucifiction of Jesus Christ. 8)

"That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-
Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise;" —Qur'an, sura 4 (An-Nisa) ayat 157-158
#13893588
TruePolitics wrote:Godstud, I'm starting to get a little tired of your "tone".
So? Are you going to scold me? :lol:

You don't have to agree with me, but is there any actual scientific evidence of Jesus Christ's existence?

I do think that there might have been a person similar to him, but I think that they did some vast embellishments, like in that King Arthur analogy I used.
#13893663
Spike Spiegel wrote:Just because he said a few nice words doesn't change a fact that he believes 2/3 of this world deserves to suffer for eternity, just because we don't believe in him.

You're projecting a later(Augustinian) interpretation onto a text that was interpreted quite differently by many of its earlier followers.
#13893666
Godstud wrote:So? Are you going to scold me? :lol:

You don't have to agree with me, but is there any actual scientific evidence of Jesus Christ's existence?

I do think that there might have been a person similar to him, but I think that they did some vast embellishments, like in that King Arthur analogy I used.

You sound like a reader of Dr. Robert M. Price.

I happen to agree with you totally. Even if 'Jesus Christ' existed, he's not the guy in the Bible. The Bible is a bunch of nonsense; it's so historically impossible only Fundies and Orthodox Jews pretend it is even remotely plausible (how can a guy be from a town, Nazareth, that positively did not exist?)
#13893894
Oxymoron wrote:No People who think all Myths are fiction.
So which myths are not fiction, and how much of the myths are actually true, and how much is bullshit?
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