Free abortion/contraception? - Page 2 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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Polls on politics, news, current affairs and history.

Which poll option reflects your view (everything that's free is paid for by the state)

Women should get free abortions and free birth control drugs even during a deficit.
16
57%
Women should get free abortions and free birth control drugs within a balanced budget.
2
7%
Women should get free abortion only if under the age.
No votes
0%
Women should never get free abortion and free birth control drugs even if the state has the available funds.
3
11%
Other (please elaborate)
7
25%
#13899700
I'm not sure why you think it's okay when it's privately funded, but suddenly not-okay when publicly funded.


I don't think it okay, but this is outside the scope of the question.
#13899748
Nets wrote:Because the state should not fund the murder of society's most defenseless human beings.


This is a rhetorical appeal to emotion.

Do you have a real reason?
#13899797
PoD wrote:This is a rhetorical appeal to emotion.

Do you have a real reason?


Because the state should not fund the murder of society's most defenseless human beings.
#13899808
Nets wrote:Because the state should not fund the murder of society's most defenseless human beings.


Nets, I don't think you get it.

PoD is one of the most defenseless human beings. He's curious as to why you care about him.
#13899881
Rei Murasame wrote:So what's the plan for all the surplus foetuses? Who is going to raise them, school them, and give them jobs?


Do you concede that your argument is based on practicality? Anyway, last year in my country there were 180,000 plus abortions, this number doesn't come close to the number of women seeking to adopt, which tends to be around the 500,000 mark, the number of women who actually apply to adopt is around 100,000. So with an effective strategy, I think you could save alot of lives.
#13899894
Of course my argument is based on practicality.

But your answer doesn't tell me how - in this scenario - we are supposed to give all these children jobs when they grow up, nor does it tell us how the treasury is going to look when inevitably unemployment would be through the roof in 25 years (too many people in the country, population did not track to the economy since you broke the link between the woman and her own ovaries), all of whom we would have to place on Jobseekers Allowance (social programme) or an Employment Protection Programme (social programme plus fiscal injection).

Meanwhile, having such a large reserve army of labour would kill the incentive for companies to develop labour-saving devices or more efficient processes, since they'd see a large population and assume - wrongly - that they can relax, thus adopting the very lazy strategies that will make them go out of business later when competition hits them from overseas and the state runs out of money to subsidise their failures.

Furthermore, wages would be in the floor due to more people bidding for the same jobs, and so quality of life would fall and personal debts would rise and saving rates would fall, which would negatively affect bond purchases and tax revenues and further deplete the government's ability to pay for things, so it would perhaps have to turn to foreign lenders.

When that perfect storm combines with the pressures on public infrastructure and rising crime, someone will realise that we basically are a nation with a ballooning population of useless eaters and a contracting economy with no hope of ever paying off any of our debts, so the IMF would step in and lend us money on the condition that we dismantle our social services and social security systems.

As quality of life plunges into the floor and the global resource crunch hits us, the interest rates on our borrowing would just keep rising and we'd have to put bond yields into the stratosphere to get anyone to consider buying them. A massive sell off of our bonds, currency, and etc, plus hyperinflation would then turn us into a completely broke laughingstock of the world, which would then be starving and taking UN Food Aid.

And all because someone decided that every sperm is 'sacred'.

This scary scenario illustrates why opposing abortion and opposing birth control, is a disastrous idea.
#13899906
Nets wrote:Because the state should not fund the murder of society's most defenseless human beings.


In other words, you have no real reason. Instead, you want to misuse the words "murder" and "human being".

I am glad we clarified that.
#13899911
Why are you so thirsty for human blood?
#13899915
But seriously, a fetus is not a human being...why exactly?
#13899917
Rei Murasame:

The first paragraph that outlines some of the erm... economic arguments for aborting babies is quite fallacious; because these are not problems excessive population have created. And of course you put forward so many assumptions about these children; how do you know the babies that could be saved will go on to encounter problmes like unemployment for instance? I would suggest if these babies were adopted by two parent families, by and large they would not fall into these social traps.

The rest of the article is economically illiterate and full of the presumptions you outline at the very start of your post. And by the way how do you know I think human life is sacred?
#13899919
Nets wrote:But seriously, a fetus is not a human being...why exactly?


Semantics discussions aside, a clump of cells smaller than your pupil is not a human being by any stretch of the imagination.
#13899922
And a fetus with a brain and eyes and fingers and kidneys? What sort of logical hoops must one jump through to claim that an advanced fetus is not deserving of society's protection?
#13899926
Nets wrote:And a fetus with a brain and eyes and fingers and kidneys? What sort of logical hoops must one jump through to claim that an advanced fetus is not deserving of society's protection?


Let's be realistic. A fetus with all those things is fairly developed, right?

Anyone getting an abortion done at that time is doing it because of medical reasons. At that point, it doesn't matter if it is a human being by any definition. There are more pressing medical reasons, as it is not elective.
#13899930
Let's be realistic. A fetus with all those things is fairly developed, right?


8-10 weeks I believe.

Anyone getting an abortion done at that time is doing it because of medical reasons.


No.
#13899943
Nets wrote:8-10 weeks I believe.


At that early age, no, it's not a human being.

No.


In the first trimester, you're probably right, but a first trimester fetus is not a human being.
#13899944
Why not? Looks human to me.

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