Politics Forum.org | The international political discussion forum.
Your PostsActive Topics  | Display:DesktopMobile
Log-in to remove these advertisements.

What should Greece do?

POST REPLY

What should Greece do?

Default
17
71%
Debt repayment
4
17%
Other
3
13%
 
Total votes : 24
User avatar
Political cogitations: 6066
Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2007 1:30 am
Ideology: Conservative
Unperson
Post Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:48 am
Should Greece accept the EU deal for bailouts in exchange for the loss of its fiscal sovereignty and at least a decade of painful austerity and debt repayments that as a share of its GDP are higher than what Germany had to pay after Versailles, or should it default and return to the drachma, experiencing a sharp dip but one that (if the experience of other countries is anything to go by) will quickly fade away and start rebuilding its economy from a more competitive basis?
My name refers to the film by Tarkovsky. See Wikipedia link in profile.
User avatar
Absolutely Corrupt (x11)
Political cogitations: 22883
Joined: Sun Dec 31, 2006 3:29 am
Ideology: Fascist
Absolutely Corrupt (x11)
Post Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:19 pm
This train will promptly stop when it reaches Italy; I doubt enough money can be printed to bailout the Italians.

Default is the only answer and is essentially inevitable, particularly when looking at the larger Southern European economies. The political system the Euro currency is tied to is entirely unsustainable. With the introduction of Balkan and developing nations as member-states, the average Germans don't want this, nevermind the Greeks.

It is absolutely a loss of sovereignty, but also financial terrorism directed at the Greek nation which is being hijacked by those from outside. The entire Greek political discourse is now expected to take its cues from foreigners. Might as well just raise the Turkish flag over Athens; it wouldn't be any more insulting to a Greek patriot. Default.
"I am never guided by a possible assessment of my work" - President Vladimir Putin

"Nations whose nationalism is destroyed are subject to ruin." - Muammar Qaddafi
User avatar
Absolutely Corrupt (x3)
Political cogitations: 6856
Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2009 3:47 am
Ideology: Conservative
Absolutely Corrupt (x3)
Post Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:36 pm
1) Greece should become a German colony.
2) Greek citizens should have to work off their debt.
3) The Greek language should be replaced by German.

Obviously, this is a country that has no sense of dignity. It shouldn't be treated as if it does. Any Greek who refuses should be sent off to Siberia.


Russia wouldn't mind punishing a rival natural gas pipeline anyway.
______________

Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream.
3% Corrupt
Political cogitations: 76
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:12 pm
3% Corrupt
Post Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:43 pm
FRS is quite right, a default is inevitable to avoid decades of stagflation across Southern Europe. Better to pull off the band-aid in one quick jerk than this endless prodding, teasing and adjusting.
Image
User avatar
Absolutely Corrupt (x2)
Political cogitations: 4404
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2009 5:14 pm
Ideology: Liberal
Absolutely Corrupt (x2)
Post Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:35 pm
Debt repayment
It is harder to build yourself if you collapse, than rebuild yourelf now. This is good for the citizens to experience hard years, they are lazy and used to get money for no work. Everything but default.
Neverthless, I support the citizen's struggle, since there is some unjust where the rich in Greece remains untouched. The fear the rich might escape is partly right, but it allows them to escape any oblegation. hundreds of thousands shall not be fired before extra taxes are been taken from this layer of society. I think than than- even if it cause some of the money to flee out- it may crete social solidarity and a path to rebuild the state.
R_G
[+-]
User avatar
Absolutely Corrupt (x5)
Political cogitations: 10591
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2005 10:55 pm
Ideology: Libertarian
Absolutely Corrupt (x5)
Post Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:29 pm
Greece should just become a province of Deutschland.

Those bums need to repay and that's the only way to do it.
What is crime if the end result affects only the individual who commits it?
User avatar
Red Card
Political cogitations: 16901
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 10:00 pm
Ideology: Libertarian
Red Card
Post Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:31 pm
Other: Greece (and the other 'PIIGS') should ask the rest of the Eurozone (and their lenders in general) for a 10 year 'break' on their debt, where they don't have to pay back their debt, their debt doesn't collect interest, and they cannot have budget deficits. They would use this time to restructure their government, education, economy, and possibly infra/superstructure to be competitive in the global market again. I see the actual method of this being somewhat similar to the actions of the Four Asian Tigers from the 1940s-1960s, or Germany and Japan during their rebuilds from WWII.

Making Greece pay back their debts would crush their economy, and defaulting on their debts would cause a global depression, and neither would actually fix Greece's real problems.
[+-]
Absolutely Corrupt (x5)
Political cogitations: 11761
Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2010 5:24 am
Absolutely Corrupt (x5)
Post Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:36 pm
If Greece defaults it will be basically kicked out of global debt markets, thus austerity will happen anyway so they are pretty much fucked in this regard.

The real issue is whether they should leave the Eurozone or not. I'm not sure about it.
Absolutely Corrupt (x2)
Political cogitations: 4354
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2009 8:46 pm
Ideology: None
Absolutely Corrupt (x2)
Post Tue Feb 21, 2012 7:35 pm
Default. the EU is gonna collapse sooner or later so they should just get out of there as soon as possible and avoid the suffering

Image
[+-]
User avatar
Absolutely Corrupt (x5)
Political cogitations: 10691
Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2011 12:43 am
Ideology: Communist
Absolutely Corrupt (x5)
Post Wed Feb 22, 2012 4:01 pm
I don't truely understand why all of this world debt is so damaging. The money did not go away. It is out there somewhere. Why don't we go find it?
libertarians - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.
KSR

The Tea Party is a rear guard, not a vanguard.
CS
User avatar
24% Corrupt
Political cogitations: 490
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2012 6:17 pm
24% Corrupt
Post Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:11 pm
Drlee wrote:
I don't truely understand why all of this world debt is so damaging. The money did not go away. It is out there somewhere. Why don't we go find it?


The young attractive Greeks are sitting on it
User avatar
Absolutely Corrupt (x6)
Political cogitations: 12481
Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2005 12:18 pm
Ideology: Socialist
Absolutely Corrupt (x6)
Post Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:01 pm
R_G
[+-]
User avatar
Absolutely Corrupt (x5)
Political cogitations: 10591
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2005 10:55 pm
Ideology: Libertarian
Absolutely Corrupt (x5)
Post Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:26 am
Zionist Nationalist wrote:
Image


See, this is what always gets me. Why the fuck did the super states in Europe give a shit about Portugal, Ireland and co when they had a good thing going to begin with.

Belgium
France
West Germany
Italy
Luxembourg
Netherlands

Yeah, Italy was the weak link but one that could be pulled.

Then they included Spain, Portugal and Greece and that's when shit hit the fan but only the German brought it up.

The other seven:

Austria
Denmark
Norway
Portugal
Sweden
Switzerland
United Kingdom

I'll let you pick out the retarded cousin.....


Why they started included the garbage can members I have no clue.
What is crime if the end result affects only the individual who commits it?
User avatar
19% Corrupt
Political cogitations: 381
Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2010 10:56 pm
Ideology: Conservative
19% Corrupt
Post Thu Feb 23, 2012 2:48 am
Default. Frankly, the only question is when it will do so, and this is likely to be quite soon. I'd say that the optimal response would also include a decoupling and a currency devaluation. Greece can't begin to grow and export its way back to health, because its currency is overvalued and sacrificed to the Euro monstrosity. Tourism and shipping, its two primary sectors, would benefit immensely from a competitive devaluation. It'll be a long procedure regardless, but it does beat the alternative, or some manner of ghastly solution like defaulting within the Euro.

Repayment would effectively consist of Greek taxpayers giving to Eurocrats for bailouts that primarily benefited the financial institutions that made bad investments in the first place, breeding further malinvestment and moral hazard - the Greek government itself only saw 19 cents of every dollar from the bailouts. Effectively, it is making the poor and middle-class pay for the mistakes of the wealthy and providing less incentive to not repeat said mistakes.
HERE COME THE DRUMS!
Image

For a long time I wouldn't kill anyone in GTA games because I thought it was wrong. - grassroots1
[+-]
Absolutely Corrupt (x5)
Political cogitations: 10341
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2009 10:37 pm
Ideology: Liberal
Absolutely Corrupt (x5)
Post Thu Feb 23, 2012 3:33 am
Drlee wrote:
I don't truely understand why all of this world debt is so damaging. The money did not go away. It is out there somewhere. Why don't we go find it?


The issue is not the debt, the issue is that the western governments have massive liabilities, they need a massive amount of resources to pay all the costs they have for pensions and healthcare etc and problems then arise when you have small generations of young people who are not particularly productive and this creates a resource crunch which the various governments try and cover by seizing these resources forcefully via outbidding of resources with money from a printing press.

The debts levels are a side effect of the deficit spending since it gets funded by central banks printing monopoly money and using them to enable government debt creation, the debt is a symptom of the disease, not the real underlying problem.
User avatar
Absolutely Corrupt (x11)
Political cogitations: 22883
Joined: Sun Dec 31, 2006 3:29 am
Ideology: Fascist
Absolutely Corrupt (x11)
Post Thu Feb 23, 2012 3:44 am
Isn't Croatia now awaiting EU integration?

I would like to hear someone intelligently explain why this entire project isn't slated for disaster?
"I am never guided by a possible assessment of my work" - President Vladimir Putin

"Nations whose nationalism is destroyed are subject to ruin." - Muammar Qaddafi
[+-]
Absolutely Corrupt (x5)
Political cogitations: 11761
Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2010 5:24 am
Absolutely Corrupt (x5)
Post Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:16 am
wat0n wrote:
If Greece defaults it will be basically kicked out of global debt markets, thus austerity will happen anyway so they are pretty much fucked in this regard.

The real issue is whether they should leave the Eurozone or not. I'm not sure about it.


By the way, it should be noted that by "default" I mean a 100% haircut for bondholders. Technically speaking, Greece has already defaulted by restructuring its debt (and the 50%+ haircut for bondholders)..
User avatar
19% Corrupt
Political cogitations: 381
Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2010 10:56 pm
Ideology: Conservative
19% Corrupt
Post Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:16 am
Far-Right Sage wrote:
Isn't Croatia now awaiting EU integration?

I would like to hear someone intelligently explain why this entire project isn't slated for disaster?

Eurocrats are desperate and Croatia is led by morons?
HERE COME THE DRUMS!
Image

For a long time I wouldn't kill anyone in GTA games because I thought it was wrong. - grassroots1
POST REPLY

Back to: Opinion Polls

Log-in to submit your comments.
More Political Forums: The Politics Forum UK. Historical Forums: The U.S.S.R. Forum, The History Forum.
© 2003-2016 Siberian Fox network. Privacy.