[Alexander]

I'm sorry, but there's no way an apologist for the Taliban can be considered a technocrat.

[The Clockwork Rat]

Oh, just forget I fucking said anything then.

[apparatchik]

My God-saved friend, Potemkin and me (apparatchik)!

[Daktoria]

I'm sorry, but there's no way an apologist for the Taliban can be considered a technocrat.

How so? The Islamic Empire had a golden age of academic success. Islamism often takes pride in that golden age justifying its earlier jihads.

[Maas]

I see people voting for Maas, but Maas is not actually a leftist, he is a liberal dressed in red. Maas is a guy who - in various arguments with me - has asserted the following:

• He thinks finance is vital to the functioning of the world economy and cannot be brought into check.
• He'd like to suppress worker's wages so that he can get a new kitchen put in for less than 2000 Euros. (seriously!)
• He'd like more immigration so that wages will be reduced.
• He thinks banks make the world go round.
• He thinks some regulation of banks is necessary, though. (Oh, is he not merciful? )

• I have bought a beautifull kitchen for 2400 euro's and installed it myself. Afterall, I'm an engineer and my dads background is nuclear physics. I'm not going to pay some highschool dropout 60eu an hour for that.
• low paid jobs should be done for low wages. Its vital to the economy.
• money makes the world go round. Banks just play a role in that.
• The unchecked financial world caused such a crash that governments had to step in. Ergo, the unchecked financial world is a thread to the stability of the economy of countries, and so must be checked and regulated enough to reduce the thread to "some" minimum.

and on the side...
I think about all you people don't get Dutch politics one bit. The rest of the world is trapped in left = Liberal vs right = Conservative. In Dutch politics the opposite of Conservative is Progressive... and both have nothing to do with left or right wing. I'm somewhere center left to center right and progressive.

As an example:
You see PVV as extreme right wing conservatism
PVV is actually for us conservatism and not left or right

Communism as is almost advocated by the Dutch party called SP
is progressive left wing. I'm nowhere near that. I'm far to rich for it too.

[Smertios]

The rest of the world is trapped in left = Liberal vs right = Conservative. In Dutch politics the opposite of Conservative is Progressive... and both have nothing to do with left or right wing.

That varies a lot from country to country. Here left normally means socialism, and right means liberalism, for some reason. Conservatives are normally considered extreme right...

[Donna]

I'm not actually that far-left. I tend to side with bourgeois politicos if they are actively breaking down national or patriarchal relations, even if this causes significant detriment to working people or the cohesion of whole nations; but this is because I consider both nation and family as the parents of anti-communism and counter-revolution.

[Rich]

How so? The Islamic Empire had a golden age of academic success. Islamism often takes pride in that golden age justifying its earlier jihads.

AKA Grand Theft Civilisation on the Byzantines.

It took a few centuries for them to turn it into a shit hole.

[Alexander]

Oh, just forget I fucking said anything then.

Easy there... don't take disagreements personally.

How so? The Islamic Empire had a golden age of academic success. Islamism often takes pride in that golden age justifying its earlier jihads.

Not all Islamism is the same, and the Golden Age was a very long time ago. The current trend in the Muslim world is a very disturbing, reactionary one. Just looking at the way the Taliban ruled last time they were in power should tell you that they are hardly the friends of progress. In fact, given how brutal and mediaeval their ideas are, it's rather strange hearing the so-called "left-wingers" constantly making excuses for them.

[Maas]

That varies a lot from country to country. Here left normally means socialism, and right means liberalism, for some reason. Conservatives are normally considered extreme right...

yeah.. normally to others. But for us, you were able to label China as extreme left conservatism. But they opened up, and so became a lot more progressive but still far on the left.

But that is still to left and not progrssive enough for my taste.

Just looking at the way the Taliban ruled last time they were in power should tell you that they are hardly the friends of progress. In fact, given how brutal and mediaeval their ideas are, it's rather strange hearing the so-called "left-wingers" constantly making excuses for them.

You're an idiot when you think the Taliban is a good representation of the average muslim world.
Excuses my ass. You're just being dishonest to drag them in as a current trend.

[Red Barn]

Just looking at the way the Taliban ruled last time they were in power should tell you that they are hardly the friends of progress. In fact, given how brutal and mediaeval their ideas are, it's rather strange hearing the so-called "left-wingers" constantly making excuses for them.

I think what you're seeing is two separate phenomena:

1.) "Liberals" (as opposed to the actual Left) defending a broadly vilified group because they're fixated on "racism" in and of itself, and

2.) The actual Left trying to draw attention to the West's role in the radicalization of minorities within the Middle East in the first place.

The second position is much more inclusive, I think, and acknowledges the fact that pretty much any population will produce reactionary and aggressive subsets when faced with an external - or externalized - threat. (Witness the rise of Christian Fundamentalism in the US, where economic decline has triggered a whole host of imaginary scenarios in which Jews, Muslims, Kenyans, lizard people and Communists plot to take over the world.)

I agree that there's a minority trend that's quite disturbing. The question is, though, how does one understand this "trend" in larger terms?

[Alexander]

You're an idiot when you think the Taliban is a good representation of the average muslim world.
Excuses my ass. You're just being dishonest to drag them in as a current trend.

I didn't say that the Taliban was a "good representation" of the Muslim world. You're twisting my words, because you're too lazy to justify your constant defence of backward tribal culture.
And left wingers do constantly make excuses for the Taliban. On this forum, you, Igor and GandalftheGrey are the prime culprits in this regard. In mainstream discourse, look at people like Salma Yaqoob, or George Galloway. Couple that with the left's almost fanatical obsession with Israel, and the constant displays of "solidarity" with groups like Hamas and Islamic Jihad in Palestine, (I mean, the clue's in the name, for fuck's sake) and the myth of being "progressive" is exposed to everyone as a sham.

The actual Left trying to draw attention to the West's role in the radicalization of minorities within the Middle East in the first place.

I understand where you're coming from, but this sort of argument essentially denies any responsibility in the hands of the perpetrators. It's possible to be opposed to the Western presence in Afghanistan without advocating a backward interpretation of the Sharia, and throwing acid into women's faces if they don't wear a burqa. It's possible to be opposed to Israeli settlements in Gaza without flying a plane into the World Trade Centre to kill "infidels". Yes, Western policy plays a role in igniting anti-Western sentiment. However, radical Islam isn't a "last resort", as so many like to portray it. These people were hardly secularist doves before Western involvement.