[Dagoth Ur]

Why do only designed things have a purpose? Define how being a part of an extant system, which requires your input, is not a purpose.

[layman]

Why do only designed things have a purpose? Define how being a part of an extant system, which requires your input, is not a purpose.

We are not born into a system though are we? I mean can be born in a country that has systems, purpose and all that. This is not an objective truth though. It is just a bunch of inter-subjective ideas in peoples heads.

We have no objective purpose. Nature, evolution etc I mean.

purpose:
the reason for which something is done or created or for which something exists.
"the purpose of the meeting is to appoint a trustee"

This is the definition I think of.

[Zamuel]

We have no objective purpose. Nature, evolution etc I mean.

Just because you don't know what it is, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Zam

[Bulaba Khan Jones]

Sure Bulaba, I'm an atheist myself. I understand. Just wondering what your perception of that might be, but I understand if you can't really answer that question.

I honestly can't answer it with any degree of certainty because I don't know. Life's a mystery, and while I generally lean towards accepting the idea there's only this life and this world, I've had two incidents in my life that were, by definition, undeniably not only spiritual but supernatural (not that I really think they were supernatural). As with going on a journey as a psychonaut, it's just stuff inside you: ideas, clarity, subconscious insights that you can bring to the surface and realize about yourself. But the things that happened to me were so powerful and happened while I wasn't taking drugs that I could never adopt a fully atheistic perspective (despite the fact I generally lean towards atheism rather than anything theistic), so I remain a cautious, skeptical agnostic. I reject the idea of cosmic plans, a point to existence, a "purpose of life", sky king deities, etc, but I'm open to certain other ideas.

I hope I've imparted some of my general confusion with the universe onto you.

[Pants-of-dog]

Just because you don't know what it is, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

That is true, so instead we should look at evidence and see what it says.

Evolution and the uncertainty principle certainly indicate that chance and randomness play a part in objective reality, which in turn indicates that there is no purpose or if there is a purpose, it is one that does not include all things.

[SolarCross]

That is true, so instead we should look at evidence and see what it says.

Evolution and the uncertainty principle certainly indicate that chance and randomness play a part in objective reality, which in turn indicates that there is no purpose or if there is a purpose, it is one that does not include all things.

That seems a non-sequitur. Random elements = no purpose? Many games have a random element with dice throws or cards drawn from a shuffled deck yet they are hardly purposeless activities.

[Pants-of-dog]

That seems a non-sequitur. Random elements = no purpose? Many games have a random element with dice throws or cards drawn from a shuffled deck yet they are hardly purposeless activities.

And these dice and cards introduce enough elements of chance that you are unable to know who will win. If that is the case, it would be impossible to create a plan that involves one specific person winning.

[SolarCross]

And these dice and cards introduce enough elements of chance that you are unable to know who will win. If that is the case, it would be impossible to create a plan that involves one specific person winning.

That is not true for all games with a random element and even then it is besides the point there is still a purpose to the game even in games of pure chance like snakes and ladders. Is there a purpose to any of your posts?

[Rancid]

You puny humans just don't get it.

[Pants-of-dog]

That is not true for all games with a random element and even then it is besides the point there is still a purpose to the game even in games of pure chance like snakes and ladders.

I am not going to discuss board games with you.

What part of my claim do you want to address?

Is there a purpose to any of your posts?

Yes. If you see I purpose to my posts, I invite you to stop responding to them.

[Political Interest]

Yes (Monotheist)

The point of life is to go through it and come out the other end uncorrupted, as blameless as possible and ready to face judgement before the Lord.

Life is not about pleasure, life is not about having fun, life is about surviving. This does not mean there are not happy and joyous moments but ultimately life is not something easy or secure.

Life is not about how rich you become or how successful you are. Life is about how you handle the challenges you encounter and what sort of person you turn out to be in the end.

[mikema63]

That sounds worse than not having any point at all, my whole life lived to meet some dude in the sky's standard of morality.

[Political Interest]

That sounds worse than not having any point at all, my whole life lived to meet some dude in the sky's standard of morality.

You misunderstand my idea.

Even if you are not religious, the same idea applies.

Consider this, at the end of the day, would you rather be happy or would you rather be considered a good person?

[mikema63]

Happy, it doesn't matter to me if other people think I'm particularly good or not, I'm just going to do what I think is right and the world can judge me however it likes.

[SolarCross]

I am not going to discuss board games with you.

What part of my claim do you want to address?

The reference to games was to illustrate that situations with random elements still have purpose, that randomness does not imply purposelessness. I already addressed you claim and refuted it, see above.

Is there a purpose to any of your posts?

Yes. If you see I purpose to my posts, I invite you to stop responding to them.

No need to get huffy, when I asked if there was a purpose to your posts it was meant as an illustration that there is purpose in existence, you can hardly deny that you have purpose in writing your posts after all. Try not to be so thin skinned, friendly advice.

[Political Interest]

Happy, it doesn't matter to me if other people think I'm particularly good or not, I'm just going to do what I think is right and the world can judge me however it likes.

And how can a person be happy if they don't believe they are good person?

[Potemkin]

PI, you are an angel exiled on Earth. You were not meant for such a world as this.

[Rancid]

Potemkin,

Wait wait wait wait.... I thought I was the Angel?!?!?!?!

[Potemkin]

As I said, Rancid, perhaps we all are....

[mikema63]

And how can a person be happy if they don't believe they are good person?

People are universally capable of believing themselves good regardless of their actual actions.