[Istanbuller]

The poll speaks itself. Would they stop if things were a little bit different?

I just wrote the full question here because the title must contain fewer than 100 characters.

Would far- righters stop undermining liberal values of the West and democracy if established political parties were more careful on immigration?

[warsmith17]

I answered no because immigration is just the issue they are using as a wedge to push themselves into the mainstream. The refugee crisis didn't create these groups, but it has strengthened them. It has turned one of their primary issues into one of concern for broad sections of the electorate in many western countries. Changing immigration policies would stop nothing, in fact it may accelerate the situation. They would point to it as a victory for themselves, and use it to leverage their new found popularity, and further attempt to main-stream themselves. They could paint it as them beating the establishment, an establishment that had acted against the will of their people.

[Albert]

Yes

"Far right" was not on the scene in any significant way couple of decades ago. Aso today's emerging "populist" parties are not exactly traditionally far right.

[LV-GUCCI-PRADA-FLEX]

No. They will just keep moving the goalposts until they get everything that they want. You can't stop conservatives. They were just as whiny when we were securing people basic civil rights.

[Tewodros III]

I answered no because immigration is just the issue they are using as a wedge to push themselves into the mainstream. The refugee crisis didn't create these groups, but it has strengthened them. It has turned one of their primary issues into one of concern for broad sections of the electorate in many western countries. Changing immigration policies would stop nothing, in fact it may accelerate the situation. They would point to it as a victory for themselves, and use it to leverage their new found popularity, and further attempt to main-stream themselves. They could paint it as them beating the establishment, an establishment that had acted against the will of their people.

Funny, these far right groups would have supported the establishment destabilize attempts on ME and Africa, just to dump and pump resources. Only now they're paying the price, when the people of those destabilize nations are coming to them.

[Albert]

@warsmith17
Are you sure you are rightwing? For a rightwing you sure sound pessimistic about it.

[warsmith17]

@warsmith17
Are you sure you are rightwing? For a rightwing you sure sound pessimistic about it.

The question had nothing to do with the positivity of what is going on, only whether or not one policy change would somehow cause the far-right to abandon one of their core values.

I consider myself third-positionist, while I agree with the altright on a few issues (such as immigration), overall I find them to be a group of incoherent dullards, with no understanding of their own ideology. Also as a nationalist I find that many of these groups damage US strategic interests, hence a certain dislike on my part

[Albert]

Oh I see, you are one of those "old guards" .

[warsmith17]

Would you explain what you mean by that term?

[Albert]

Basically entrenched in your notion of far right. This is why I dont like ideology, as it divides people unnecessarily.

[Tewodros III]

The question had nothing to do with the positivity of what is going on, only whether or not one policy change would somehow cause the far-right to abandon one of their core values.

I consider myself third-positionist, while I agree with the altright on a few issues (such as immigration), overall I find them to be a group of incoherent dullards, with no understanding of their own ideology. Also as a nationalist I find that many of these groups damage US strategic interests, hence a certain dislike on my part

The idea of strict immigration did not began from the altrags, plus they meant non-white immigration, they be glad to accept white illegals cause that's how much of a shitheads they truly are? Also, at this point people have enough of capitalism, whether with a human face or not, they don't trust the class system to be a third position. I rather you go National Bolshevik. It's far superior to that anime meme crap of ideology.

[warsmith17]

Basically entrenched in your notion of far right. This is why I dont like ideology, as it divides people unnecessarily.

I have a very broad view of the far-right.

Not having an ideology is literally just being incoherent, or for most people not actually knowing what they believe. Most members of the altright seem to hold policy positions that would actually undermine some of their other policy positions.

[Igor Antunov]

It's not the far right that is undermining democracy in 2016. The leftists are simply inciting chaos and increasing political polarization by importing incompatible cultures. Other. The leftists simply need to get their shit together or the popular mandate will keep going to the conservatives every election. Note that's still democracy. If your opponent wins in a legitimate election, it's still democracy. Something brainwashed SJW's have great difficulty comprehending.

And the liberal label in a 'western' left-right context means nothing in the US, other than a tool for manipulation of the public by the establishment media. Clinton for example is a raging right-wing ideologue but she is deemed liberal in the US, where people are worked like pack mules and receive laughable government support/subsidies, be it democrat government or republican despite paying high taxes. Obama had 8 years to change that, the best he could do was INCREASE healthcare costs for low and middle income people.

You live in a Kleptocracy. Parts of Europe are the same. Arguably the best (to live in) regions of Europe are now destroying themselves by a runaway leftist brigade. Ideologues are lame whatever the political spectrum, because they don't operate on the basis of reality. In places such as Sweden and Norway-this will push people to vote for the right which is the only thing that can stall this growing degeneracy/fall of western civilization.

[ThirdTerm]

Post-war non-European immigration was initially beneficial for the UK and German economies which needed manual labourers and tens of thousands of them were accepted from Britain's former colonies and Turkey as well as North Africa in the French case. But it gets alarming when their populations grow exponentially, thus drastically altering the population makeup. Taking them in as permanent settlers prior to the 1960s could have been a major policy mistake and it happened when nobody was watching. The better immigration policy would be accepting foreign workers on temporary work visas, which are only valid for up to five years or so, regardless of the levels of their skills and talents.

[Tewodros III]

It's not the far right that is undermining democracy in 2016. The leftists are simply inciting chaos and increasing political polarization by importing incompatible cultures. Other. The leftists simply need to get their shit together or the popular mandate will keep going to the conservatives every election. Note that's still democracy. If your opponent wins in a legitimate election, it's still democracy. Something brainwashed SJW's have great difficulty comprehending.

And the liberal label in a 'western' left-right context means nothing in the US, other than a tool for manipulation of the public by the establishment media. Clinton for example is a raging right-wing ideologue but she is deemed liberal in the US, where people are worked like pack mules and receive laughable government support/subsidies, be it democrat government or republican despite paying high taxes. Obama had 8 years to change that, the best he could do was INCREASE healthcare costs for low and middle income people.

You live in a Kleptocracy. Parts of Europe are the same. Arguably the best (to live in) regions of Europe are now destroying themselves by a runaway leftist brigade. Ideologues are lame whatever the political spectrum, because they don't operate on the basis of reality. In places such as Sweden and Norway-this will push people to vote for the right which is the only thing that can stall this growing degeneracy/fall of western civilization.

lol, you believe the left is undermining democarcy, you actually believe that the clinton neo-liberalism and european liberals are left. You getting dumber Igor, what happens when one supports trump.

[Igor Antunov]

Keep pushing that narrative. Ever wonder why kleptocrats across the entire political divide in the US and Europe are running and screaming for the hills whenever an outsider who doesn't give a shit about the status quo seizes power? Their precious monopoly on information and political bribery is compromised. Western leftists are simply their useful idiots on the ground.

[Tewodros III]

Keep pushing that narrative. Ever wonder why kleptocrats across the entire political divide in the US and Europe are running and screaming for the hills whenever an outsider who doesn't give a shit about the status quo seizes power? Their precious monopoly on information and political bribery is compromised. Westerners are simply their useful idiots on the ground.

FTFY, anyway you getting dumber with that altfag narrative.

[Saeko]

lol, you believe the left is undermining democarcy, you actually believe that the clinton neo-liberalism and european liberals are left. You getting dumber Igor, what happens when one supports trump.

Yes, they are on the left. They are on the left because they say they are on the left. The terms left and right signify nothing except the people who signify themselves by those terms.

[Albert]

What is happening now in the west is movement towards normality. People are sick and tired of post-war liberal progressive policy. In a lot of places it has created living hell for people. Unless you are not stupid and have not been brainwashed by progressive narrative this reality is obvious.

It was bond to happen ever since liberal progressives embarked on this mission to improve humanity and build "The New Society", sice the 60s. It was obvious to reasonable people back then who forewarned that it will lead to a disaster. Yet the mania already began by that point and they were deemed as backwards idiots.

Now we have arrived at that disaster and people have began to see through the bullshit. So they are going towards parties who have solutions to fix the situation. Far Right and populist parties have a solution so people vote for them.

People are not motivated by ideology but by real factors in their lives, they are actually moving away from any idealistic mombo-jombo, thankfully, as it is fanatic idealism that got us into this mess to begin with.

And the mess is real and severe. Also to make things worse, the are no sweet gentle medicine left to remedy the problems we face.

The ideological fanatics and brainwashed dumbasses really, really, do not want
to see this. Thus making the situation even worse now, especially considering the dumbasses are still in power. Thankfully now there is a chance this all might change come 2017.

[Pants-of-dog]

I think it is clear from the right wingers here that immigration is not the only significant motive.