[One Degree]

Trump is a part of the oligarchy, the United States has went from having politicians who are puppets belonging to the billionaires to having one of the billionaires governing the country directly, that is most definitely a step backwards when it comes to the American people actually controlling their government. I don't see how any honest person could construe it in any other way.

The establishment of both parties hate him. That is a pretty good reason to believe he might work against them. I am not holding my breath that he is going to help the common man. I just want him to destroy the establishment to a degree that the people may exercise a little more influence. Split the parties. Embarrass the dinosaurs. It is a long shot, but why not support him until he proves otherwise. The only alternative is to let the establishment know he does not have popular support and he has no chance. WE have no chance. I don't see the logic of not supporting him in this one thing.

[Decky]

I don't care about political parties, they are just smokescreens anyway. Middlemen who exists to stand between the rich and the government to hide that fact that government exists only as a tool for the rich to use to protect themselves from the poor rising up and taking their country and indeed their world back.

[foxdemon]

The establishment of both parties hate him. That is a pretty good reason to believe he might work against them. I am not holding my breath that he is going to help the common man. I just want him to destroy the establishment to a degree that the people may exercise a little more influence. Split the parties. Embarrass the dinosaurs. It is a long shot, but why not support him until he proves otherwise. The only alternative is to let the establishment know he does not have popular support and he has no chance. WE have no chance. I don't see the logic of not supporting him in this one thing.

If all you want is to see Trump and his retinue of malcontents break the current establishment's back, you might be in luck. I doubt he will rebuild middle America. Though in all honesty, that would take decades and thus a series of
Presidents with that goal and a consistent will of the people to drive it.

[Rugoz]

No.

Being ignorant and ideological is by far the worst combination. Luckily Trump is only ignorant.

Instead of being ideological Trump is an extreme narcissist. Something must have motivated him to go into politics.

[Sheepshank]

yes.

Trump is ignorant and a such is particularly prone to react to conspiracies that fulfill his ideologies. His ideologies are often shallow, lacking depth of understanding, and baseless. Since Trump has no depth of character and has never had to develop such, he has no basis for understanding the struggles of the working class. How can he have a working, functioning, implementable ideology that will help anyone but himself?

People with lots of money crave absolute power. He already has the money.

[One Degree]

Trump is ignorant

You are just one of many who have made this comment. My question, not specifically to you, is what do you mean by he is ignorant? What does that even mean? I assume you mean he lacks the knowledge to do the job, but he fulfills all the qualifications for President, so the comment has no meaning. I have known very wise people who lacked formal education. I have known very wise people who I disagreed with everything they said. Does that make them ignorant? Does he lacking the knowledge, that you believe he should have, make the knowledge he does have any less valuable? How do you know his knowledge is not exactly what the job requires? Maybe that is why there is no educational requirement for the job. His job is to represent the people, and he is qualified to do so.

[Sheepshank]

I'm not sure why so many claim Trump is not ignorant? I wonder how anyone can prove he is not ignorant, but instead demand that I provide verification of my views on Trump's ignorance?

I will agree with you that ignorance does not necessarily have a straight line correlation with education or even book learning or lack thereof. Trump apparently has had both and in my estimation is still ignorant. This is much bigger that his perceived fitness for office of President.

As for my reasons for considering Trump ignorant? Being rude and uncouth has a basis in ignorance. Name calling, belittling, and making unfounded assertions is ignorant. Conspiracy theories, which abound in Trump's daily rhetoric, is based in ignorance. Making assertions and then claiming that assertion was never made assumes that the listener is ignorant, which in an of itself is an overt display of ignorance. Claiming to have knowledge that everyone knows they do not have, is excessively stupid and ignorant. I think DJT is ignorant on very many levels. Many of those levels of ignorance cannot be overcome by any tenure Trump may enjoy in the Whitehouse.

[One Degree]

I'm not sure why so many claim Trump is not ignorant? I wonder how anyone can prove he is not ignorant, but instead demand that I provide verification of my views on Trump's ignorance?

Not only did I not demand any such thing of you, I specifically stated the question was not directed specifically at you.

I will agree with you that ignorance does not necessarily have a straight line correlation with education or even book learning or lack thereof. Trump apparently has had both and in my estimation is still ignorant. This is much bigger that his perceived fitness for office of President.

Why? If the ignorance you claim is real and it does not have anything to do with his qualifications for president, then why is it a bigger issue?

As for my reasons for considering Trump ignorant? Being rude and uncouth has a basis in ignorance. Name calling, belittling, and making unfounded assertions is ignorant.

So you believe his not being politically correct is the same as ignorance?

Conspiracy theories, which abound in Trump's daily rhetoric, is based in ignorance.

Can you provide proof this is ignorance?

Making assertions and then claiming that assertion was never made assumes that the listener is ignorant, which in an of itself is an overt display of ignorance.

Examples please?

Claiming to have knowledge that everyone knows they do not have, is excessively stupid and ignorant.

I don't see what this has to do with ignorance.

I think DJT is ignorant on very many levels. Many of those levels of ignorance cannot be overcome by any tenure Trump may enjoy in the Whitehouse.

Examples? We need specifics to have a discussion.

[Rugoz]

My question, not specifically to you, is what do you mean by he is ignorant? What does that even mean?

I never got the impression he has a deeper understanding of the issues and I don't see him being motivated to acquire that understanding.

[Pants-of-dog]

The establishment of both parties hate him.

I highly doubt that.

He just made the Republican establishment his cabinet. He is basically allowing them to do whatever they want. Why would they hate him?

[Sheepshank]

“I'm not sure why so many claim Trump is not ignorant? I wonder how anyone can prove he is not ignorant, but instead demand that I provide verification of my views on Trump's ignorance?”

Not only did I not demand any such thing of you, I specifically stated the question was not directed specifically at you.

Your follow up above and original post belie the fact that this question requesting clarification of "what is ignorant" was directed at me personally. I attempted to answer and clearly you chose not to reciprocate by answering my question of why you think he is not ignorant. As a newbie here I will indulge and respond to all of your other questions that clearly appear to be specifically directed at me.

“I will agree with you that ignorance does not necessarily have a straight line correlation with education or even book learning or lack thereof. Trump apparently has had both and in my estimation is still ignorant. This is much bigger that his perceived fitness for office of President. ”

Why? If the ignorance you claim is real and it does not have anything to do with his qualifications for president, then why is it a bigger issue?

My response wasn't limited to Trumps qualification for office (that was provided only by winning EV). Trump's ignorance was on display well prior to his announcing his run for office. The lies he promulgated via his birthterisms, and later recantation was obvious to everyone who cared to take note. In my estimation it's bigger than the Presidency, because he brings that ignorance into the Whitehouse and he is already appearing to govern from that position of ignorance.

“As for my reasons for considering Trump ignorant? Being rude and uncouth has a basis in ignorance. Name calling, belittling, and making unfounded assertions is ignorant.”

So you believe his not being politically correct is the same as ignorance?

Yes, it shows a level of ignorance.

“Conspiracy theories, which abound in Trump's daily rhetoric, is based in ignorance.”

Can you provide proof this is ignorance?

http://eprints.lse.ac.uk/65952/1/blogs.lse.ac.uk-If%20Trumps%20rhetoric%20around%20conspiracy%20theories%20follows%20him%20to%20the%20White%20House%20it%20could%20lead%20to%20the%20vio%5B1%5D.pdf
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the ... 27802372c4
http://www.npr.org/2016/05/24/479331275 ... s-embraced

“Making assertions and then claiming that assertion was never made assumes that the listener is ignorant, which in an of itself is an overt display of ignorance.”

Examples please?

Obama and birtherisms, Putin involvement with elections, and why not just read http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/23/politics/ ... index.html

“Claiming to have knowledge that everyone knows they do not have, is excessively stupid and ignorant.”

I don't see what this has to do with ignorance.

That's too bad. I doubt most people being fed lies and being treated as if they are stupid can be claimed as an action of a brilliant orator.

“I think DJT is ignorant on very many levels. Many of those levels of ignorance cannot be overcome by any tenure Trump may enjoy in the Whitehouse.”

Examples? We need specifics to have a discussion.

many response already provided above.....still waiting to hear why you do not think he is ignorant?

On a final note to you, with my initial foray to Politics Forum, I responded in this particular forum because it simply asked for "opinions" and responses to "polls". I'm not sure why my opinion appears to offend you and must be justified? I assumed an opinion was just that and permitted without prejudice.

[One Degree]

many response already provided above.....still waiting to hear why you do not think he is ignorant?

No human is ignorant, in my opinion. They may ignorant of certain information, but to call them ignorant is an elitism I attempt to avoid.

On a final note to you, with my initial foray to Politics Forum, I responded in this particular forum because it simply asked for "opinions" and responses to "polls". I'm not sure why my opinion appears to offend you and must be justified? I assumed an opinion was just that and permitted without prejudice.

Your opinion did not offend me, thus why I stated I was not directing my diatribe at you. I felt like blowing off.
Welcome to POFO.

[Sheepshank]

No human is ignorant, in my opinion.

Perhaps not if it's by accident, or merely by virtue not knowing the facts. Willful ignorance (not attending security briefs and yet making statements that he knows more than the others, knows more than the Generals) isn't going to be given such a magnanimous pass by me. When one acts like an vulgarian ignoramous, one should be prepared to be called such...Donald hates the title yet promotes the point almost daily. I wonder if he's even aware that he does that or if he's doing it to dare people to call him out. It's one way to make his famous lists.

I am elitist? Because Trump is ignorant?

[One Degree]

Perhaps not if it's by accident, or merely by virtue not knowing the facts. Willful ignorance (not attending security briefs and yet making statements that he knows more than the others, knows more than the Generals) isn't going to be given such a magnanimous pass by me. When one acts like an vulgarian ignoramous, one should be prepared to be called such...Donald hates the title yet promotes the point almost daily. I wonder if he's even aware that he does that or if he's doing it to dare people to call him out. It's one way to make his famous lists.

I am elitist? Because Trump is ignorant?

What is the acceptable knowledge Trump or any person must have to not be considered ignorant? You are simply insulting him and pretending it is a fact. Yes, it makes you an elitist when you call someone ignorant without referring to specific areas where they lack knowledge. Especially in a political climate where Hillary supporters like to pretend everyone who voted for Trump is stupid. This is definitely elitism.

[Rugoz]

Willful ignorance (not attending security briefs and yet making statements that he knows more than the others, knows more than the Generals) isn't going to be given such a magnanimous pass by me.

To be fair, such statements are more the result of his narcissistic personality disorder. Imagine how unbearable he would be if he were a knowledgeable person.

[Sheepshank]

Ok...that was funny

To be fair, such statements are more the result of his narcissistic personality disorder. Imagine how unbearable he would be if he were a knowledgeable person.

Ok....that was funny

[Sheepshank]

What is the acceptable knowledge Trump or any person must have to not be considered ignorant? You are simply insulting him and pretending it is a fact. Yes, it makes you an elitist when you call someone ignorant without referring to specific areas where they lack knowledge. Especially in a political climate where Hillary supporters like to pretend everyone who voted for Trump is stupid. This is definitely elitism.

I didn't insult Trump without facts. I provided plenty of factual examples, including links. It appears that the label "elitism" is slapped on to any progressive who isn't turning a blind eye to Trump's short falls. And there are so very, very many. Why just in the last couple of days, his inability to control his petty outbursts re: Meryl Streep is telling. How does this make America Great Again, why does spending time publically stroking his own ego always bubble to the top of his to do list? It appears petty and ignorant of the ways of a true leader.

[PraiseKek]

I didn't insult Trump without facts. I provided plenty of factual examples, including links. It appears that the label "elitism" is slapped on to any progressive who isn't turning a blind eye to Trump's short falls. And there are so very, very many. Why just in the last couple of days, his inability to control his petty outbursts re: Meryl Streep is telling. How does this make America Great Again, why does spending time publically stroking his own ego always bubble to the top of his to do list? It appears petty and ignorant of the ways of a true leader.

You are fooled for his physiological warfare techniques, Trump does not care less what some actress has to say but he pretends like he does. Why? Because he wants to make his enemies think he is stupid and shallow but in actual fact he thinks in an extremely pragmatic way.

[Sheepshank]

... Because he wants to make his enemies think he is stupid and shallow....

He's very good at that.

I don't think he's all that pragmatic. I've not seen any evidence of that, just hopeful wishes on the part of his supporters. I grant that he has "some" business sense about him, but I have never been under the impression that someone who makes lots of money for themselves, often by bullying, intimidation, threats and actual law suits, taking out multiple bankruptcies and failing to honestly live up to contracts and pay his contractors, is a pragmatic way to run a nation where the incentives are not the same as running a business.

[PraiseKek]

He's very good at that.

I don't think he's all that pragmatic. I've not seen any evidence of that, just hopeful wishes on the part of his supporters. I grant that he has "some" business sense about him, but I have never been under the impression that someone who makes lots of money for themselves, often by bullying, intimidation, threats and actual law suits, taking out multiple bankruptcies and failing to honestly live up to contracts and pay his contractors, is a pragmatic way to run a nation where the incentives are not the same as running a business.

Turning millions into billions? Winning a presidential election? Look at how he has met with Carlos Slim for example he sent out a tweet after meeting him saying he is a great person (of course stuff went on behind the scenes, potential financial threats). A few days later the New York Times comes out and says Obama has no legacy. Trump knows how to play people, yeah he is a bully and he has a huge ego. Now he wants to be remembered for something after his death something that changed America and changed the world. Deep down he is not a bad man but he is a ruthless man. Remain loyal to him he will reward you, betray him you will be punished.

He has wanted to be president for about 2 decades, he chose his moment well just after the financial crisis and the disappointment of Obama and the highly distrustful public of the establishment and the media. Trump knows the political environment and he picked his time perfectly right. He knows how peoples minds work.