How Low Will Democratic Representation Get Before It Drops Identity Politics? - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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What percent would it take?

42.5-45%
1
13%
40-42.5%
No votes
0%
37.5-40%
1
13%
35-37.5%
1
13%
32.5-35%
No votes
0%
30-32.5%
2
25%
Other
3
38%
#14772174
The Democratic Party is currently out of control in the top 5 levels of government in America which makes it look like its current strategy of identity politics is a total failure. Its obsession with focusing on static demographics is faltering compared to how people seem to care more about dynamic pragmatics. That is people don't care about the color of your skin or what's between your pants as much as they care about how your policies actually impact their lives.

To be clear, I don't think idealism even has a remote shot at becoming either influential in politics in general or central to the Democratic Party's platform. However, it's clear that it needs to change or else for all it claimed Republicans would go into the dustbin of history, it would look like the Democrats are heading that way like how the Republicans were outnumbered 2:1 during the '60s and '70s.

Therefore, how low will Democratic Party representation have to get before it overhauls its platform to adapt to the times of putting pragmatics before demographics?
#14772212
Identity and tag lines are always a part of Politics. And also there are the memes and catch phrases. Every leader in government has their trademark that makes them memorable and liked or hated.

How do you take Identity Politics out of Politics?

Therefore, how low will Democratic Party representation have to get before it overhauls its platform to adapt to the times of putting pragmatics before demographics?


Why would they overhaul it? It seems to me like their platform has steadily gotten more support over the years as there are more younger liberals who are of voting age and since the election of 2004 until now, that young millenial population has been becoming more interested in what happens in government. There have been more support for green initiatives and green projects, even companies like Patagonia are green.

I think the shift of power for Grey power is waning and the influence of the millenial generation is on the rise.
#14772563
MistyTiger wrote:Why would they overhaul it? It seems to me like their platform has steadily gotten more support over the years as there are more younger liberals who are of voting age and since the election of 2004 until now, that young millenial population has been becoming more interested in what happens in government. There have been more support for green initiatives and green projects, even companies like Patagonia are green.

I think the shift of power for Grey power is waning and the influence of the millenial generation is on the rise.


What convinces you green politics are a centerpiece to the Democratic Party's platform?

MB. wrote:Just wait until the midterm elections, or failing that, four to 8 years and the Democrats will be back in power. It's not like there is an alternative.


The Republicans said the same thing during the '60s and '70s, but that never happened.
#14772580
Dubayoo wrote:What convinces you green politics are a centerpiece to the Democratic Party's platform?



The Republicans said the same thing during the '60s and '70s, but that never happened.



Democrats tend to follow liberal trends closely. I am sure that they have noticed groups and corporations making bigger efforts to protect the environment and cater to a fanbase that is conscious of weather patterns and pollution.
#14772743
Pants-of-dog wrote:Identity politics worked well for Trump.

He became quite popular with his racism, sexism, and religious bigotry.

Reverse Identity Politics "worked" for Trump because of the Democrats insistence that PC political memes are all that matter.

Bill Clinton: Atheist Supreme! McDonalds and whores!

Barack Obama: Black Presidents Matter!

Hillary Clinton: I am woman, hear me roar!

This is basically all these people had to offer: identity politics. The rest of their careers were brown envelopes from banksters and arms dealing with Saudis.
#14773276
I don't think they would drop it because emphasizing such social issues helps to keep people on both left and right of liberalism fighting it out whilst not effectively threatening the core of the the capitalist system.

https://www.marxists.org/reference/subject/philosophy/works/ot/zizek1.htm
...If, today, one follows a direct call to act, this act will not be performed in an empty space; it will be an act within the hegemonic ideological coordinates: those who "really want to do something to help people" get involved in (undoubtedly honorable) exploits like Doctors without Borders, Greenpeace, feminist and antiracist campaigns, which are all not only tolerated but even supported by the media, even if they seemingly enter economic territory (say, denouncing and boycotting companies that do not respect ecological conditions or that use child labor). They are tolerated and supported as long as they do not get too close to a certain limit.
...
Today’s blockade is that there are two ways open for the socio-political engagement: either play the game of the system, engage in the “long march through the institutions,” or get active in new social movements, from feminism through ecology to anti-racism. And, again, the limit of these movements is that they are not POLITICAL in the sense of the Universal Singular: they are “one issue movements” which lack the dimension of the universality, i.e. they do not relate to the social TOTALITY.

Here, Lenin’s reproach to liberals is crucial: they only EXPLOIT the working classes’ discontent to strengthen their position vis-a-vis the conservatives, instead of identifying with it to the end.52 Is this also not the case with today’s Left liberals? They like to evoke racism, ecology, workers’ grievances, etc., to score points over the conservatives WITHOUT ENDANGERING THE SYSTEM. Recall how, in Seattle, Bill Clinton himself deftly referred to the protesters on the streets outside, reminding the gathered leaders inside the guarded palaces that they should listen to the message of the demonstrators (the message which, of course, Clinton interpreted, depriving it of its subversive sting attributed to the dangerous extremists introducing chaos and violence into the majority of peaceful protesters). It’s the same with all New Social Movements, up to the Zapatistas in Chiapas: the systemic politics is always ready to “listen to their demands,” depriving them of their proper political sting. The system is by definition ecumenical, open, tolerant, ready to “listen” to all — even if one insist on one’s demands, they are deprived of their universal political sting by the very form of negotiation. The true Third Way we have to look for is this third way between the institutionalized parliamentary politics and the new social movements.

The ultimate answer to the reproach that the radical Left proposals are utopian should thus be that, today, the true utopia is the belief that the present liberal-democratic capitalist consensus could go on indefinitely, without radical changes. We are thus back at the old ‘68 motto “Soyons realistes, demandons l'impossible!": in order to be truly a “realist,” one must consider breaking out of the constraints of what appears “possible” (or, as we usually out it, “feasible”).

They are movements that are readily swept up into supporting politicians and supporting the state as it is with the ideal that it'll simply listen to them, taking the wind out of their sails as a movement. It gives them a few concessions, jumping back and forth in the long term, jumping back and forth on social issues with differing liberal politicians in power.

So in minor ways the state can change its form, whilst in content remaining essentially the same as always because these tug of war on social issues is masks the content of the state serving a capitalist class. It allows people to feel like they participate in their society and have a meaningful say through elections. When they become disillusioned with the liberal democratic process of voting not meeting their needs, they move to direct action yet still to prompt politicians to do their fighting.
Image
Too many movements of people die early on because they get tied up with a politician leading their effort within the political/economic system. Because they ultimately agree with the capitalist system and liberal state but just think it needs a few tweaks, reforms to achieve their ends. They don't see how in the long term their reforms aren't sustainable and will simply be undermined once their political leverage is dissipated. If anything identity politics of the liberal kind are tolerated and in some cases temporarily supported until they get to close to threatening the core interests. In which case they've often been taken in under state and funded by it and their funding is simply cut or threatened if they oppose powerful interests, making them politically impotent to addressing the the cause of their identified problem. They propose band aid solutions, that they are of the type that creates charities to support treating the symptoms of a society.

And its in this sense that these groups that can be organized and in a sense are products of people from the bottom then designate certain concerns which the parties then make appeals to. They can play the game of I care about this racial or gender issue, I support these policies that help them in this way. And they may even implement somethings considered progressive, but they will always be minor concessions, nothing radical.

So in the end I can't see the democratic party dropping such political appeasement as it serves them quite well just as already noted it served reactionaries quite well as they're of the same type but on reaction to it. The entire political view is all within the confines of capitalism, still feeling the effects of what Maggie Thatcher's TINA after the end of the cold war with disillusioned first world leftist who turned new left cultural theorists, where academics end up concerned with policing language and more offended by a word than the conditions of the working class.
#14773459
You understand perfectly. The whole identity politics bollocks exists to get people to waste energy in middle class liberal nothing politics instead of actual working class left wing politics (better wages, more council houses, stronger trade unions, nationalising everything etc). The capitalist swine who own the media push it heavily to avoid anyone ding anything that would actually better the position of people who work.
#14773519
Pants-of-dog wrote:As long as the right keeps being racist, sexist, homophobic, transphobic, Islamophobic, etc. then the people opposing the right will continue to point these out.

If you want the rest of us to stop pointing it out, stop engaging in bigotry.



As long as the Democrats keep this type of all inclusive dishonest discussion and narrative, they are doomed as the bigots they are proving to be. The alt left with fracture and start their own party.
#14773579
Finfinder wrote:As long as the Democrats keep this type of all inclusive dishonest discussion and narrative, they are doomed as the bigots they are proving to be. The alt left with fracture and start their own party.


I do not care about the Democrats.

How are movements to end bigotry dishonest?
#14787994
Ultimately, it is not the groups themselves that are dishonest, but their ideological extremists. Many of the extremists want to push aside any dissenting view. I also would like to argue that much of their narrative does have some form of bigotry to it; after all, in my experience, they will assume your struggles by what your particular label is (and often project their own ideological biases onto minorities). The mainstream part of the Democrats do not understand that with identity politics, they will sow the seeds of their destruction. Generation Z is already one of the most Conservative generations in recent decades.
#14792300
Decky wrote:You understand perfectly. The whole identity politics bollocks exists to get people to waste energy in middle class liberal nothing politics instead of actual working class left wing politics (better wages, more council houses, stronger trade unions, nationalising everything etc). The capitalist swine who own the media push it heavily to avoid anyone ding anything that would actually better the position of people who work.


To the original poster, neither Party is immune...they both practice this diversion as stated above. It is not about your 'guy or gal' or my 'guy or gal' winning or losing. That is pedestrian thinking. It is about all of us losing.
#14792680
They will not drop identity politics. It will be a Democrat in the White House after Trump.

Americans will get tired of Trump and they will elect another Democrat who will continue the old policies of mainstream American politics.

The Republican party will also only offer normal candidates after Trump's time.

Trumpism is an anomaly and will not leave any lasting historical legacy on American establishment politics.

You can be certain that the American people will elect whichever candidate is sold to them regardless of anything else.
#14792723
Before you put your magic ball away, can you give me next week's lottery numbers, PI?

Whether or not Trump gets reelected depends on where America is in four years. Considering that we have highly interesting four years ahead of us, whether in America or in Europe, I can wait until then and enjoy the show in the meantime.
#14792728
It's interesting that Crazy Joe Biden has provided the sanest liberal insights as to why the Democratic Party is losing elections, but yet the Democratic Party still nominates far leftist leaders such as Chuck Schumer, Nancy Pelosi, Tom Perez, and Keith Ellison to run their party.

When a party is attempting to expand their voting block by courting the worst parasites and criminals of society along with bringing in the worst type of potentially murderous refugees possible, then that party is either doomed or the country is doomed. Success with the malignant ideas of today's far left Democratic Party would spell doom for America.
#14792842
Frollein wrote:Before you put your magic ball away, can you give me next week's lottery numbers, PI?

Whether or not Trump gets reelected depends on where America is in four years. Considering that we have highly interesting four years ahead of us, whether in America or in Europe, I can wait until then and enjoy the show in the meantime.


Trumpism is a popular fad in the same way that Obamaism was.

Americans have short memories and go in whichever way the wind blows.

Trump may very well get re-elected but after him there will not be another Trump. It will just be a standard American centrist politician like Obama, Bush or Clinton.

Trump was successful because he could ride the wave of a particular latent sentiment in the American public. It was his choice that allowed him to do this. If he had just been another centrist, Americans would still have elected him as well. There is unlikely to be any other candidate in any other party who will advocate anything akin to Trumpism after he leaves office. The American establishment has not changed and is just waiting for this inconenvient person to leave office. Then it will be back to normal American ideological dogmas.

The only way for Trumpism to continue would be for it to become the new establishment and mainstream idea in the Republican party. This has not happened and is extremely unlikely to happen. In 2024 it will be back to normal, unless Trump loses to another normal candidate in 2020.

In any case Trumpism is not a radical ideological position. Its nothing surprising or ground breakingly different.
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