[skinster]

The point is that Russia could have vindicated Assad by allowing an UN investigation that would come to the conclusion that there really is no evidence. As it is, the only conclusion can be that the Russians and Assad do have something to hide.

That conclusion is the type that would come from dumb liberals who fall for false-flag ops.

Stop talking shite. Or, if you insist on continuing to, provide links for that^ shit-talking position.

5 million Syrian refugees (including women and children) aren't all "head-chopping, child-raping/-enslaving terrorists" as you put it. They could have moved to Damascus-controlled areas if they had felt save under the Assad regime.

BJ was referring to the foreign fighters sent to Syria to bring down the govt, obviously.

Still, the majority of Syrians live under the government's control and have done so throughout the war. And "the rebels" were killing Syrians who wished to escape, to live under the government control.

[Beren]

There should be statues of Assad in every city on earth.

Assad is a great poster boy indeed, he's a doctor like Che was, which makes him an angel too, but it's Putin who'd deserve such respect and admiration worldwide. The Statue of Liberty should be replaced with a Statue of Trump and a Farage statue should be erected on Trafalgar Square right beside Nelson as well. There should be statues of Hungarian PM Orban all over Europe I guess.

[Heisenberg]

5 million Syrian refugees (including women and children) aren't all "head-chopping, child-raping/-enslaving terrorists" as you put it. They could have moved to Damascus-controlled areas if they had felt save under the Assad regime.

Refugees, by definition, have not been slaughtered.

But of course, the existence of refugees in a prolonged civil war is hardly new. The reason the civil war has been so prolonged is largely because of overt and covert support of the "rebels" from day one by the Gulf states, Turkey, and later, the US and UK. Laying the blame entirely with "Assad" is ridiculous.

[Atlantis]

Stop talking shite.

It's you who is talking shite because you are obviously out of your depth.

It is totally obvious that the Russians are trying to hide the facts. You have no other evidence than your wishful thinking.

Refugees, by definition, have not been slaughtered.

5 million refugees fleeing Syria are not a sign of Assad's benign rule as some here pretend.

[Godstud]

Fleeing a country in civil war is nothing new, and Assad night not have been the most popular guy, but he was more popular than Trump is now.

Most Syrians back President Assad, but you'd never know from western media
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... propaganda

The Inconvenient Truth: Bashar al Assad’s Popularity Confounds NATO Propagandists
Face it, NATO and its allies would have labelled Jesus Christ the Butcher of Damascus if this had suited their agenda of forced regime change in Syria.

The Establishment has been demonising popular leaders who threaten its hegemony for centuries. If you believe Bashar al Assad evil, purely on the claims of the Establishment and its press, then you probably accept that Joan of Arc was a witch, Bonny Dundee was depraved, Napoleon ate babies, Ares Velouchiotis was a sick sadist, Arthur Scargill was corrupt, Alex Salmond is the new Ghengis Khan, and Jeremy Corbyn everything thrown at him last year. (I’m guessing the traditional view of Richard III is suspect as well…)

In the case of Bashar al Assad, the accusations range from gassing his own people (long disproved), to the frankly batty one of being responsible for 90% of the deaths in Syria (even though almost half of all deaths have been soldiers from the Syrian Arab Army – presumably Assad has been killing his own soldiers …). The hollowness of the accusations has been well documented.
https://www.globalresearch.ca/the-incon ... ts/5532844

[Rugoz]

Most Syrians back President Assad, but you'd never know from western media
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... propaganda

I quote from your source:

Some 55% of Syrians want Assad to stay, motivated by fear of civil war – a spectre that is not theoretical as it is for those who live outside Syria's borders. What is less good news for the Assad regime is that the poll also found that half the Syrians who accept him staying in power believe he must usher in free elections in the near future.

Comparing popularity figures between Trump and Assad is just retarded. Rather you should ask whether Americans want Trump or civil war.

[skinster]

It is totally obvious that the Russians are trying to hide the facts.

So obvious that you can't share a single link to prove these "facts".

[skinster]

The reason the civil war has been so prolonged is largely because of overt and covert support of the "rebels" from day one by the Gulf states, Turkey, and later, the US and UK.

The US and UK were involved from the beginning, along with Israel & France. Jordan was also involved in the war on Syria.

More here:

[Heisenberg]

A quick question: does anyone here know where to find the report? I'm yet to see a copy and Googling it is getting me knowhere.

Incidentally, the only discussion I've seen of the report indicates that it bases its conclusions on some very shaky evidence (at best) and is completely uncritical of the rather ridiculous discrepancies in the "rebel" account (such as people being admitted to hospital with "sarin poisoning" an hour before the attack allegedly occurred). I'd be very interested to see the real thing.

[Bulaba Khan Jones]

Incidentally, that sounds a lot like the incident "covered" by BBC 2-3 years ago where rebels tried to stage scenes both outside and inside a hospital where "victims" of a chemical gas attack were admitted. Inside the hospital the footage initially showed a bunch of actors in really bad Halloween-style makeup jobs and ripped/torn clothing with random spattering of blood simply hanging out, and once people noticed the camera was rolling, the overacting was unbelievable. And then outside, a woman (or a man, it was impossible to tell because her face was almost completely veiled) was apparently talking, but the BBC changed her dialogue in a subsequent airing.

I'm sure other people here remember that footage, as it was brought up a few times in the Syrian War thread.

[Heisenberg]

I've found something claiming to be the leaked report - I obviously can't vouch for its authenticity.
http://images.shoutwiki.com/acloserlookonsyria/2/2d/OPCW-UN_JIM_7th_Report.pdf

Word of warning, it's horribly formatted. There are a few amusing segments, such as this long list of discrepancies surrounding the attack, that they nevertheless brush off without much thought. The excuse is, "meh, we didn't bother investigating". I particularly like how some alleged victims ended up in a hospital 125km away within 15 minutes of the attack occurring.

The Mechanism found that the reported symptoms of the victims were consistent with
exposure to sarin and that the available information on the medical impact of the
attack on 4 April 2017, including the health-care sector response, consistently
pointed to the use of sarin.
• Based on its review of open source material showing first responders in the hours
immediately after the incident, the Mechanism observed several methods and
procedures that appeared either unusual or inappropriate in the circumstances. In
particular, the Mechanism noted that fully equipped hazmat teams appeared at the
scene later that afternoon and reported early detection of the presence of sarin,
seemingly using a Dräger X-am 7000 ambient air monitor, which was not known
to be able to detect sarin. Of further concern to the Mechanism was the relative
unprofessionalism by which certain environmental samples appear to have been
taken, e.g. sampling from a muddy puddle.
• The Mechanism also noted scenes recorded just after the incident at the medical point to
the east of Khan Shaykhun, where rescue and decontamination activities filmed
shortly after 0700 hours showed rescue personnel hosing down patients with water
indiscriminately for extended periods of time. Such video footage also depicted a
number of patients not being attended to, and some para-medical interventions that
did not seem to make medical sense, such as performing heart compression on a
patient facing the ground.
• The Mechanism obtained expert analysis on the medical symptoms and response
indicated in witness statements and medical records, as well as treatment received
at a range of health care facilities, including those in a neighbouring country.
• Certain irregularities were observed in elements of information analysed. For example,
several hospitals appeared to start admitting casualties of the attack between 0640
and 0645 hours. The Mechanism received the medical records of 247 patients
from Khan Shaykhun who were admitted to various health-care facilities,
including those of survivors and a number of victims who died from exposure to a
chemical agent. The admission times of the records range between 0600 and
1600 hours. Analysis of the aforementioned medical records revealed that in
57 cases, patients were admitted in five hospitals before the incident in Khan
Shaykhun (at 0600, 0620 and 0640 hours). In 10 such cases, patients appear to
have been admitted to a hospital 125 km away from Khan Shaykhun at 0700
hours while another 42 patients appear to have been admitted to a hospital 30
km away at 0700 hours. The Mechanism did not investigate these
discrepancies and cannot determine whether they are linked to any possible
staging scenario, or to poor record-keeping in chaotic conditions.
• An inconsistency was identified in one of the Fact-Finding Mission biomedical results from
samples without a chain of custody. In sample number 133, the blood tested negative
for sarin or a sarin-like substance, while the urine sample tested positive for the sarin
degradation product isopropyl methylphosphonate. There is currently no explanation
regarding the inconsistency. Medical experts consulted by the Mechanism indicated
that the combination of the negative result in the blood and the positive result in the
urine was impossible. This inconsistency was considered to be most probably the
result of cross-contamination in the sampling process.
• The Mechanism observed from open sources that treatment of victims from Khan Shaykhun
frequently involved oxygen and cortisone therapy. This treatment is not
recommended for sarin intoxication, but is mainly for lung damage, as would be
caused by either chlorine or vacuum bombs.
• Based on consultations with two medical experts, the Mechanism found that the response
by rescue workers and medical personnel in Khan Shaykhun on 4 April 2017 had
been essentially consistent with the use of sarin on such a scale. While some
potentially important irregularities were identified throughout the rescue operation
and in medical records, they may be explained by factors such as poor training or the
chaotic conditions, or by attempts to inflate the gravity of the situation for depiction
in the media.

Elsewhere in the report, they note that the aircraft the US claimed was "over Khan Shaykhun" was in fact about three miles away when the incident occurred:

On 7 April 2017, United States authorities publicly released a statement and a map
depicting a flight path of an aircraft originating from Al-Shayrat airbase that “was
over Khan Shaykhun” at approximately 0637 and 0646 hours. The Mechanism
had access to a further aerial map depicting the path of an aircraft alleged to have
been in the airspace around Khan Shaykhun between approximately 0644 and
0651 hours on 4 April 2017. The flight is depicted as conducting a circular loop in
the vicinity of Kafr Zita and the north-east of Khan Shaykhun. The map indicated
that the closest point that the aircraft was to Khan Shaykhun was approximately 5
km away. Additional information provided to the Mechanism referred to two
aircraft having taken off from Al-Shayrat airbase at around the same time as
indicated above, ten minutes apart, following the same flight path. Based on the
above, the Mechanism found that air activity had taken place around Khan
Shaykhun at about the time of the sarin incident.

They interviewed the pilot, and found that what he was telling them was consistent with the flight logs, but essentially brush it off because it doesn't fit the conclusion. They suddenly learn to be sceptical of what someone is telling them - but then throw this out the window whenever they interview unnamed "witnesses".

The Mechanism interviewed the pilot associated with one of the entries in the log book,
who used the call sign “Quds 1” and flew a Su-22 at the relevant time that day. The
pilot stated that no chemical weapons had been used, and that the mission that
morning had been to the west of Kafr Zita using three 500kg conventional munitions.
This was found to be consistent with the details contained in the log book. According
to the pilot, the closest distance to Khan Shaykhun on this date was approximately 7
to 9 km, while executing an attack against targets west of Kafr Zita. While the
Mechanism was able to confirm severe structural damage to a building in the general
vicinity of one of those targets via analysis of satellite imagery, it could not precisely
determine when this damage occurred.

[skinster]

A quick question: does anyone here know where to find the report?

This article from today has a link and lots of info.

[Bulaba Khan Jones]

Thanks for the links and the info, frands. It's clear what should be done:

1. Assad is a big meanie. We really don't like him, and he's a bad guy. (And anyone who points out he hasn't been involved in enabling the invasion of a single country, or promoted global terrorism, and has far less death on his hands than Hillary in each case, or that dictators like the King of Saudi Arabia are being given mutual handies with the EU/US/NATO should all be kept quiet)

2. My personal belief is that Assad is crazy and insane because that's how I feel. Therefore, Assad is definitely responsible for using chemical weapons on his own people while winning/while the world is watching because he's crazy because that's what I believe.

3. All the ridiculous inconsistencies and discrepancies in that report, and past reports concerning chemical weapons in Syria, should be disregarded because we know that 1) Assad is a bad man, and 2) we feel that Assad is insane and therefore he did it.

And then we should pat ourselves on the back about how America isn't plutocratic, isn't an oligarchy, and has so much democracy and so little corruption and its politics aren't determined by money, special interest groups, and the business elite.

[Rugoz]

Thanks for the links and the info, frands. It's clear what should be done:

1. Assad is a big meanie. We really don't like him, and he's a bad guy. (And anyone who points out he hasn't been involved in enabling the invasion of a single country, or promoted global terrorism, and has far less death on his hands than Hillary in each case, or that dictators like the King of Saudi Arabia are being given mutual handies with the EU/US/NATO should all be kept quiet)

2. My personal belief is that Assad is crazy and insane because that's how I feel. Therefore, Assad is definitely responsible for using chemical weapons on his own people while winning/while the world is watching because he's crazy because that's what I believe.

3. All the ridiculous inconsistencies and discrepancies in that report, and past reports concerning chemical weapons in Syria, should be disregarded because we know that 1) Assad is a bad man, and 2) we feel that Assad is insane and therefore he did it.

And then we should pat ourselves on the back about how America isn't plutocratic, isn't an oligarchy, and has so much democracy and so little corruption and its politics aren't determined by money, special interest groups, and the business elite.

Stupid strawmen.

[Godstud]

Not strawmen... sarcasm.

[neopagan]

Until the Russian intervention, Assad's regime knew their back was to the wall with Europe, America, and the UN. To suggest that they would have given those sanctimonious do-gooders more food for their anti-Syria propaganda, is totally without merit. If such gas was used, it is more likely to have been some minor bunch of self interested "rebel" thugs seeking to make Assad look worse in the International Media.

[Atlantis]

The idea that it is unlikely that Assad would use chemical weapons because it would discredit his regime is faulty. Authoritarian regimes don't always act rationally. I think the Rebels most likely also used chemical weapon's to trigger the West's red line; however, that in no way constitutes proof that Assad didn't. As long as the Russians don't agree to a UN investigation, there won't be any positive proof. But the fact that the Russians prevent an investigation speaks volumes.

[SolarCross]

The idea that it is unlikely that Assad would use chemical weapons because it would discredit his regime is faulty. Authoritarian regimes don't always act rationally. I think the Rebels most likely also used chemical weapon's to trigger the West's red line; however, that in no way constitutes proof that Assad didn't. As long as the Russians don't agree to a UN investigation, there won't be any positive proof. But the fact that the Russians prevent an investigation speaks volumes.

Using gas is ruthless not irrational. Assad leads the Alawite minority who maintain their hegemony (and security) over other (hostile) ethnicities mostly through terror even in peace time. The civil war is an opportunity to thin out the numbers of hostile tribes, a "gloves are off moment", as much as it is a direct threat to Alawite supremacy, in crisis comes opportunity as they say. Those that were gassed would do the same to the Alawites if the situation was reversed.

[Rugoz]

Any leader who thinks he's worth a civil war must suffer from extreme hubris. After Trump announced removing him would not be a priority anymore he probably felt encouraged. It didn't cost him much either way, Trump's airstrike was a little slap on the wrist.

[Godstud]

Trump's airstrike was the epitome of STUPID. Not two months later he was talking about helping Syria.