Is It Okay To Be White? - Page 23 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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Polls on politics, news, current affairs and history.

Is It Okay To Be White?

1. Yes, It Is Okay To Be White.
51
67%
2. No, It Is Not Okay To Be White.
12
16%
3. Other
13
17%
#14863751
What I think is interesting are societies that have a hard time integrating different races of people? Can you give me an example of any successful multiracial intermarrying among many at least three different ethnic groups over a long period of time? Because that would be interesting.


How about the United States? Or, if you prefer, on a smaller scale Hawaii. Hawaii is a true melting pot. I have many friends and my family ran a successful business there for many years. You would be hard pressed to find a family that had been in Hawaii for the past 75 years that was not multi-racial. And it is a diverse melting pot. Philippines, China, Black, Japanese, Pacific Islanders, White, Hispanic....all pretty much running on a level field. In fact. About the only racist group there is the Home Rule people who want to restore the monarchy. And they are just sort of fun when they are not annoying the tourists.

I know so many multi-racial couples in the US now that I simply do not pay them any attention. And, given my age, I should be one of the folks most sensitive to this phenomena.

In the early 70's, when I was in the army, I took a very attractive black woman to breakfast at an Alabama hotel. The atmosphere when we walked in was palpable. Even if we had been in uniform it would have been an issue. Now? A lot of Alabama folks would not be happy about it but it would not be considered unusual.

We have enormous racial issues in the US. I bring them up constantly. The bigger issues of the economy and the division of labor are far more important.
#14863755
Political Interest wrote:Everyone inter-marries in England. It is not a question of class. The middle classes also marry people from different ethnic groups. And in the vast majority people still marry within their own ethnicity, as in any country. Your use of the words 'artificial divisions' is very interesting. Would you be able to explain further? Who is creating them and how? And this is not a question of race, either. A mass settlement of Germans into England would also cause significant tensions. It's also not a question of racism because it has nothing to do with who is right or wrong, or the merits and vices of any particular race. It's simply the weakness of human beings.



I think we can find this in any country. Even in Japan there live nearly a million Koreans. And despite the fact that these are both Asian ethnicities there still was discrimination and other issues until the 1990s. And the settlement of Koreans into Japan was not even a mass migration. But when it becomes an issue of mass settlement, in an old world context (notaby in Europe), this can be very irresponsible as it always results in resentment, tension and instability in the long run. Those who promote this policy are always the bourgeois establishment politicians and their middle class supporters. Racism is unacceptable and sickening, but it's a misunderstanding to construct the argument as a binary pro-immigration (anti-racist) and anti-immigration (racist) discussion. Unfortunatley, due to the racist history of a lot of English speaking societies, it is difficult to take a person seriously if they claim to be against mass immigration without being racist. And then there are the genuine racists and the far right who delegitimise any discussion of the problems caused my immigration by blaming migrants for a society's problems.



This is true. Even in Europe you can find many different types of appearances in a single European country.



It is not only those of European origin who find it strange. If anything you will find many Europeans are very liberal. Most will not disapprove if their children marry someone of a different race. And in Asia there are many who would not be happy about their children marrying someone from another Asian ethnicity, let alone someone from a completely different race.



But ethnicity does not change depending on where a person grows up.



What seems to have happened in Puerto Rico is that the Spanish colonists established themselves there and assimilated the indigenous population into their ethnic group. Puerto Rico is in the main part a Spanish ethnos.

´
This is a great topic to explore PI. Let us give it a shot. Let us start off with your first response. You state everyone intermarries in England. Can you really say it is based on a preference for a certain 'race'? Or is it on a certain class? What I mean PI by this is that studies have shown that working class people all over the world who are huddled together in certain 'ghettos' or marginalized communities and who 'grow up' together tend to mix with each other. That means a working class white poor man can very easily get attracted to a black woman who also grows up in the same neighborhood, who had to go to the same schools, etc and they eventually mix. The middle class in England and in many other places where there is a lot more 'whites' in higher income brackets and tend to flock to all white neighborhoods, have a less propensity to marry outside of their 'somatic' race. Somatic I mean as how they look on the outside to the rest of the world. Not who they are genetically. An important distinction. As far as I can know, England is not the DR, Cuba or PR. It is not. In our societies the vast majority of the populace is not just one 'race'. In England? I don't think all the ethnic minorities outside of Anglos are the majority in that nation are they? It makes sense because it has a separate history than the Caribbean islands.

As for 'artificial divisions'---People are interacting socially, and they do it mostly through economics. The vast majority of people have to live in neighborhoods that reflect their economic 'clout'. What they can afford. Poor communities tend to have more people who are non-white than white. Especially in places like Europe. Paris, France has areas where it is all African and Muslim immigrants. Very few wealthy or no wealthy Parisians live there. The same is present in England's major cities. London is a good example.

Your arguments about Koreans in Japan, etc. are all valid arguments. My argument has to do with the artificial divisions. Koreans and Japanese are both human communities. Different cultures, and languages, true with antagonistic histories between them just like the Chinese and the Japanese have that as well between those two major Asian nations. There are ethnic tensions. I don't deny that. What I mean by artificial is that if they wanted to intermarry and create a society where no single group dominated. Where a Korean mother and a Japanese father and raising their kids in Osaka for example were something 'normal' then the 'tension' would be gone. People either choose to set aside the tensions and co-exist especially those at the very bottom of the socioeconomic ladder or they perish with wars of various types. I like peace. I think nothing is more peaceful than people who had differences in the past finally can co-exist without violence, oppression and hatred dominating their relationships. That is what I meant by 'artificial divisions'. Again, for me? All of humanity can integrate and become unified in new concepts of nationhood that are not rife with tension and hatreds. Look at how ugly that can get in places like Iraq, Syria, the former Yugoslavia, Pakistan, India, etc. It can get UGLY.

The response you gave PI about who the Puerto Ricans are genetically was accepted for a long time. But recently due to DNA studies they have been modified. We now know that the majority of Puerto Ricans were products of either a Taino Indian mother and a Spaniard from about four to five different regions of Spain (usually of the lowest classes) and or a West African slave or former slave or free person and a Spanish father or Indian Taino father. Something to the tune of 60%+ percent. The Spanish language did dominate because for hundreds of years the Spanish held the top socioeconomic and social class position and imposed that on the population. Spaniards as a whole did not approve of sending Spanish women to the New World. It was considered dangerous and risky. So the women who were in the New World became the mothers of all the new families forming. Whether by voluntarily means or involuntary means. The result half a millenium later is a society where the vast majority of the people are mixed racially. This is not the same history as the Pilgrims in Plymouth Rock, Massachusetts in the original 13 colonies of North America. Not the same.

I do agree that Puerto Rico is not an Anglo ethnos. But we have been colonized by an ex colony of the Anglo ethnos. Who keep insisting we drop our Spanish and integrate into their society? A society that is very far away and who has a different history. That is the problem with what defines a nation right there Political Interest. What do we share in terms of history and interests with a very large, very different, and very unbalanced in power relationship with a nation that is worth assimilating ourselves to? Puerto Ricans are not the elite of the USA. We are not. We are largely very humble, poor and working class people. I think we have more in common with the vast majority of the working class in Latin America and our identity is rooted in the Caribbean Latin American ethos. Not the USA Anglo dominated one. How does one go about defining nationhood when one nation is predatory with another? That is the crux of the problem. The one that creates 'tension'. Not if someone looks black, or white or any other race.

What do you think PI?
#14863759
Drlee wrote:How about the United States? Or, if you prefer, on a smaller scale Hawaii. Hawaii is a true melting pot. I have many friends and my family ran a successful business there for many years. You would be hard pressed to find a family that had been in Hawaii for the past 75 years that was not multi-racial. And it is a diverse melting pot. Philippines, China, Black, Japanese, Pacific Islanders, White, Hispanic....all pretty much running on a level field. In fact. About the only racist group there is the Home Rule people who want to restore the monarchy. And they are just sort of fun when they are not annoying the tourists.

I know so many multi-racial couples in the US now that I simply do not pay them any attention. And, given my age, I should be one of the folks most sensitive to this phenomena.

In the early 70's, when I was in the army, I took a very attractive black woman to breakfast at an Alabama hotel. The atmosphere when we walked in was palpable. Even if we had been in uniform it would have been an issue. Now? A lot of Alabama folks would not be happy about it but it would not be considered unusual.

We have enormous racial issues in the US. I bring them up constantly. The bigger issues of the economy and the division of labor are far more important.


Well let us tackle the first issue with Hawaii. Did you know that the original Hawaiians only compose about 9% of the entire population of Hawaii Dr. Lee. That is it. But they are about 90% of all the prison population of Hawaii. What does that say about the 'colonization' of Hawaii? Would I want an emptying out of Puerto Ricans sent somewhere else or imprisoned and the new population of Americans being the new Puerto Ricans? Again, for me the overriding concern is about what is a sense of nationhood. The reason Puerto Rico can't vote or have any say so on the mainland is about old, obsolete and frankly racist laws based on the Insular cases in the courts in the USA. How to cope with that?

http://www.justicepolicy.org/index.html

You add about 41% of Native Hawaiians who are incarcerated in Hawaii's jails. And the 50% of ethnic native Hawaiians incarcerated on mainland USA jails? Total. 91% are jailed either in a USA state or in the state of Hawaii Dr. Lee.

Now I am going to give you the link for how many native Hawaiians in Hawaii vs non native Hawaiians.

Here it is:

https://www.tripsavvy.com/people-of-hawaii-1529656

The Hawaiians declined drastically but nowadays? Very few full blooded Hawaiians left. About 6% in some stats and 9% in others. That is not much Dr. Lee.

Hawaiians speak English mostly and the culture they had is mostly destroyed. Something to this day native Hawaiians mourn. It is interesting. Around 1899-1901 etc the USA pineapple growers, sugar cane growers and coffee growers went recruiting Puerto Ricans to be shipped away to the Hawaiian islands as skilled tropical farm laborers. To this day they mixed with Japanese newcomers, Hawaiians, Chinese, etc. Let me see if I can find a video about the Hawaiian Puerto Ricans?
User avatar
By Drlee
#14863785
Well let us tackle the first issue with Hawaii. Did you know that the original Hawaiians only compose about 9% of the entire population of Hawaii Dr. Lee. That is it. But they are about 90% of all the prison population of Hawaii.


OK. Let's see. This is untrue. Native Hawaiians are not 90% of the prison population. Not even close. And they are a small minority ONLY if you speak of pure Hawaiians. If you include those who have intermarried there are many more. That also impacts the definition used in the prison population. So you are just wrong about this and it is causing you outrage where there ought to be none.

The reason Puerto Rico can't vote or have any say so on the mainland is about old, obsolete and frankly racist laws based on the Insular cases in the courts in the USA. How to cope with that?


Try coping first by taking a civics lesson. The right to vote in the US is not a federal right. It is conferred by the states. You can't vote because you are not a state. The first time the federal constitution even mentions voting is in the 14th Amendment. There are other amendments to stop states from discriminating against their citizens by preventing them from voting for certain reasons. For example there are states where felons may vote and others where they may not. It is the state that decides. So if you want to vote you must become a state. We (the current states acting in congress) may not allow you to do that but then you could decide that you wish not to be a territory and have independence. Then voting will be up to you.
Hawaiians speak English mostly and the culture they had is mostly destroyed.


No it is not destroyed. It is not the prevalent culture in the islands but it still exists.

It is interesting. Around 1899-1901 etc the USA pineapple growers, sugar cane growers and coffee growers went recruiting Puerto Ricans to be shipped away to the Hawaiian islands as skilled tropical farm laborers. To this day they mixed with Japanese newcomers, Hawaiians, Chinese, etc.


Thank you for making my point. I am glad that you agree that Hawaii is the multi-racial example for which you asked.

By the way.

You add about 41% of Native Hawaiians who are incarcerated in Hawaii's jails.



41% of native Hawaiians are not in jail.

And the 50% of ethnic native Hawaiians incarcerated on mainland USA jails?


Also untrue.

Total. 91% are jailed either in a USA state or in the state of Hawaii Dr. Lee.


Completely false.

You really need to work on this.
#14863798
I gave the link. Dispute the link. The stats say that the incarceration of native Hawaiians is 41% and that people who self identify as Native Hawaiians who are incarcerated in USA states is 50% they are taking from the total Hawaiian identification of the population Dr. Lee. If that is not the case? Prove it. I put in the links. If you differ? Find links stating that the Hawaiians are not jailed in disporportionate numbers to their total percentage of the residents in Hawaii. Simple dispute resolution. You find different stats that are reputable. I concede the point. You can't do it? You concede the point. Math Dr. Lee. There are not that many total Hawaiians. There are not.

I am going to give you an example. On the island of Puerto Rico (main one), Vieques and Culebra there are in total approximately 3.4 million residents. After Hurricane Maria this is going to go down in flames for sure. Now, how many are residing in one of the 50 states but who self identify as Puerto Rican? About 5 million. There are more Puerto Ricans in the mainland than in Puerto Rico Dr. Lee. But it is a historic and important ethnic group self identifying as Puerto Rican.

https://www.newsmax.com/FastFeatures/in ... id/708460/

That is for the Hawaiian jails. The mainland jails have another set of incarcerated people. You got to follow typical rates of immigration Dr. Lee. Native Hawaiians usually move to the closest states to them geographically. That would be California, Washington and Oregon. The West. Why? Closer geographically.

About the second point Dr. Lee. It is destroyed. If you disagree than discuss that with a panel of Hawaiian cultural leaders from the University of Hawaii. One of the definitions of nationhood pulled from the dictionary is a shared and alive common language that is used among the youth. How many native Hawaiians speak Hawaiian fluently. Linguists study extinct languages. How do they go extinct? Usually a big major event. Conquest by another ethnicity usually by force or coercion, or an unbalanced power relationship that is imposed. How did Gaelic become a minority spoken language in Ireland for example? Because the English made it hard to preserve. Through many means. The Irish and the Welsh are making efforts to get the young people to speak it again in those communities. Why? They don't want to lose the culture that comes with the language speaking Dr. Lee. Hebrew wasn't the dominant language of the entire Jewish community all over the world. They formed the state of Israel and adopted Hebrew because they wanted to create a truly Jewish cultural homeland. Why? Do you get my point about if you lose your native language you destroy a culture. Can you imagine a USA without English and being forced to not speak English because the English speaking Americans were conquered by invaders who not only prohibited the speech of that land but who said that English was not viable economically and that the new language was something benign and ok and would not alter American history or culture. Something just 'there'. You need to study history of how cultures get destroyed. Native American languages have been systemically destroyed in the USA and have almost hardly any real possibility of making a comeback. Do you need more examples Dr. Lee? It exists. So do Klingon speakers from the Star Trek franchise. But there are 3,000 fluent Kligon speakers who speak a made up Star Trek language. Native fluent Hawaiian speakers who prefer it over using English with their kids everyday Dr. Lee? No. I speak Spanish to my sons every day. Not English. I do that on purpose. You stop speaking your 'native' tongue to the youth? Condemn the language to extinction. That is reality.

Now let us clarify. 41% of all the incarcerated population in Hawaiian prisons self identify as "Hawaiian". Not caucasian, not Japanese, not x or y or z. Why? They love to lie? You add that with the incarceration of a bunch of Hawaiian identified in jail in USA prisons and you add up the total? These are people who are most probably not full blooded Hawaiians Dr. Lee. Because the full blooded Hawaiians? They are very rare. Another link about Hawaii I just looked at now? Says that full blooded Hawaiians are less than 8,000 of the entire population of Hawaii. That is pretty small. How many of those speak Hawaiian to their kids Dr. Lee? And you compare that to the entire 320 or 330 million of the big mainland USA? How are they going to preservere with that kind of number pressure on them? All the scientific predictions is going to be saying, "Not well." Most probably destroyed in the next few generations. For me culture is not about putting on a Hawaiian skirt and doing the hula and saying "Aloha." It is thinking in Hawaiian, not English, having concepts about social interaction with each other, the land, and the community not based on English Anglo paradigms of Americana from the mainland. How many can say that in native Hawaiian communities Dr. Lee?

https://www.prisonpolicy.org/profiles/HI.html

I love pie charts. Easy to read Dr. Lee. Anyway, it holds up. I can easily find some sources that say it is even higher than what I posted about Hawaiians being in Hawaiians jails in disporportionate numbers. The biggest websites on jails sometimes exclude Hawaii and Alaska systemically. Non profits write that this happens because a large portion of the jailed populations are about native peoples from that land. Also, in many states the prison administrators fudge numbers and say that certain prisoners are 'caucasian' and they are not. This happens a lot in New Mexico and in many states that have very sketchy racial data practices.

Alright Dr. Lee the part about Puerto Ricans not being able to vote for any USA president and having non voting rep and no rights in terms of influencing any elections in any real way on the mainland. They are based on USA imposed laws.

Again, look up Balzac vs Puerto Rico. (1922). All the other insular cases that followed legally had the same outcome up until the present. It basically states that Puerto Rico belongs to the USA but is not part of the USA. We are a possession and not part of the political system here. We have USA citizenship via statute. That is not constitutionally guaranteed or naturalized. It has different laws. Essentially it means that the congress is the only body in the USA political system who can either concede us a valid vote that influences USA elections on the mainland, or releases us from USA control and makes us independent. The people of Puerto Rico on the mainland can't do that via an island vote. It is not legal to do so even if the majority of the Puerto Rican people vote to become a USA state or vote for an independent nation. That is effectively colonialism. Where a society doesn't have the right to self determination Dr. Lee. Something one would think the USA would understand is bad policy....after all they fought for their own national independence from England didn't they? Back in 1776. The British were pissed and burned down the White House and tried to take back the colonies of the USA. It was an ugly, bloody war. That usually ensues when some arrogant Empire decides they have a right to possess others without giving them equal rights? Don't you agree Dr. Lee?
User avatar
By Drlee
#14863806
I
gave the link. Dispute the link. The stats say that the incarceration of native Hawaiians is 41% and that people who self identify as Native Hawaiians who are incarcerated in USA states is 50% they are taking from the total Hawaiian identification of the population Dr. Lee. If that is not the case? Prove it. I put in the links. If you differ? Find links stating that the Hawaiians are not jailed in disporportionate numbers to their total percentage of the residents in Hawaii. Simple dispute resolution. You find different stats that are reputable. I concede the point. You can't do it? You concede the point. Math Dr. Lee. There are not that many total Hawaiians. There are not.


Sadly Tinari you do not appear to know how to read your own statistics. Take a few moments with them and get back to me.

As for the vote. Citizenship for voting purposes is defined by the state in which one lives. That is why PR in the US can vote.

I am not sure why you are having a problem with this. People in DC can't vote either.
#14863808
Drlee wrote:I

Sadly Tinari you do not appear to know how to read your own statistics. Take a few moments with them and get back to me.

As for the vote. Citizenship for voting purposes is defined by the state in which one lives. That is why PR in the US can vote.

I am not sure why you are having a problem with this. People in DC can't vote either.


I already did Dr. Lee. Read the pie chart. The other website is about prison stats. What is sad is you not conceding that Hawaiians in Hawaii are not doing well after statehood. They are not. They are not controlling much. Economics, socially, financially or much of anthing. Do you concede that is the case? Or do you not want to admit that is the case?

People in DC usually aren't happy about that at all. Lol. They are not. Just because you are powerless in a political system doesn't mean people who are in that position are happy about it are they Dr. Lee?

Why don't you be honest about colonialism and the USA? They betrayed what they said they would do? Allow all people to have equal rights under the law. They have not. Not by a long shot. Because let us face it Dr. Lee? Laws can be highly unjust and only favor those with money and power in history. And the USA is no exception.

You stated that Puerto Rico is a money loser for the USA. It might be a good thing to realize Dr. Lee that keeping a colony going is always going to hit the treasury hard always. Especially after natural disaster. Even Donald Trump screwed up and told Goldman Sachs that the debt is going to have to be wiped out. Geraldo Rivera was told that Dr. Lee by Donald Trump through Fox news. The next day the White House said, "No. We are not wiping out the debt." Hmmm. Going against what the Donald man stated....why? If we are a money loser? Cut your losses and run....don't you think?

I got very interested in finding something comprehensive on this specific topic and I found it Dr. Lee! That makes me happy.

It doesn't dispute Hawaiian overall incarceration rates. But I got something for 2017 that is comprehensive and I am one third through reading the entire manual there. Her it is. It has a good index so you can look up the different related topics.

It also states clearly that the Hawaiians are stating their world view is not about Anglo culture and they don't do well without some actual Hawaiian cultural support on re-entry. It has very interesting conclusions. Are you willing to read the whole manual Dr. Lee? If not? I think I can tell you specific pages you can look up to find what you might be interested in.

In summary, the Hawaiians are not doing well with statehood. They are not. I happen to think that they lost sovereignty. Once that happens? Aint no coming back. It is the reality. If ever the USA lost its independence to another power that was out to suck them dry of money and resources? And start saying 'don't speak English, don't do this or that...." They are basically in deep shit. The only way out is going to be a bad confrontation. That is what happens. It is the reality of power relationships between disparate power groups.

https://19of32x2yl33s8o4xza0gf14-wpengi ... system.pdf

Page 34 is interesting. Native American and Native Hawaiian. Hell it is worse than I posted!

Come on Dr. Lee do you think the Native Hawaiians are doing well? According to that entire manual? The are in a very bad state in terms of equality of treatment under the law. I do have to say Thank YOU to you....because I thought to do more research on it because you thought it was not correct. So I did. Learned a lot. I am grateful you made me dig harder. It is something I like about debates. You are going to learn something. Did you know about Hawaiian Puerto Ricans Dr. Lee? I can almost predict you did not even know they existed? Are you going to admit that to me Dr. Lee? You learned something new..... :)
User avatar
By Drlee
#14863852
Come on Dr. Lee do you think the Native Hawaiians are doing well?


Much better under the Americans than previously. After their discovery by the British and visitation by a variety of people they were almost wiped out by disease. There are now far more of them than there were when the US took control of the island.

The are in a very bad state in terms of equality of treatment under the law.



Nonsense. They have the full rights of American citizens and are a protected minority. Their ancestral lands are protected and they rate their own schools. Their language is taught in schools and honored by locals and visitors alike.

Did you know about Hawaiian Puerto Ricans Dr. Lee? I can almost predict you did not even know they existed? Are you going to admit that to me Dr. Lee? You learned something new..... :)


I actually knew of many Spanish speaking people in Hawaii. The Hawaiian term for "cowboy" is paniolo. This is thought to be a bastardization of the Spanish term Espanol.

I think we can fairly say that the survival of Hawaiian culture at all owes itself to US protection and tourism. I am a huge fan of Hawaii and visit there frequently. As I mentioned earlier my family owned a business there for many years and I still have valued connections there.

If you would like to learn about pre-contact Hawaii I heartily recommend a book: Hawaiian Antiquities by David Malo. It is absolutely fascinating and transporting. The author was uniquely qualified to write the book.
#14864006
Drlee wrote:Much better under the Americans than previously. After their discovery by the British and visitation by a variety of people they were almost wiped out by disease. There are now far more of them than there were when the US took control of the island.


This seems more like a coincidence of history than anything that can be attributed to the US. It seems like the diseases had simply run their courses by the time the US seized control.

Nonsense. They have the full rights of American citizens and are a protected minority. Their ancestral lands are protected and they rate their own schools. Their language is taught in schools and honored by locals and visitors alike.


It is entirely possible that the above is true and that indigenous Hawaiians are in a very bad state in terms of equality of treatment under the law, at the same time.

I think we can fairly say that the survival of Hawaiian culture at all owes itself to US protection and tourism.


I strongly doubt it.
#14864056
@Pants-of-dog , I listen to actual Hawaiian leaders opinions of how they have fared under USA control. Not what conservatives have to say about it. Most conservatives have a very difficult time accepting they have been terribly unfair, unjust and just plain oppressive with Native Americans, Blacks, Latin Americans, Asians and people who are the natives of that land.

They all come up with excuses about how they saved the 'inferiors'. It is very sobering. You realize? The only thing that will make them question that world view is being violent and war. Then they want to know about the cultural group they are glossing over all the time...ah, hell, they are pissed. Why? Let me finally buckle down and study their history. Before? No. They are fine. Doing well. I don't want to hear about the dark side of American history.

Now, I do have to give Dr. Lee credit. I have to admit he is a charming man. And logical. In his conservative ideals. And he wants an American nation of peace, and cooperation, fiscal responsibility and all that other conservative stuff. I just happen to think? That they fail at being able to put themselves in the other group's shoes. If they do? It is highly uncomfortable Pants. It is uncomfortable. Lack of justice is uncomfortable. But if you can't feel it? You can't formulate a good response. The kind that brings peace in the long haul.

I listen to these people. They are Hawaiians. Not the ones who sell tourism packages in Hawaii.



They paint a different story. They say that their language was repressed. That is not cultural freedom. It is not. It is destroying their way of life.
#14864077
No, it is not ok to be white.

The problem with being white is that you are a beneficiary of crimes that have been committed by whites against the rest of humanity.

The only way for it to be ok to be white is if you acknowledge your privilege, acknowledge your people's atrocities, and do everything you can to make amends for it. There are maybe 1 in a million white folks who do this. Those are the only ones who are good people. The rest of us are selfish, privileged, monstrous human beings.
#14864079
Agent Steel wrote:No, it is not ok to be white.

The problem with being white is that you are a beneficiary of crimes that have been committed by whites against the rest of humanity.

The only way for it to be ok to be white is if you acknowledge your privilege, acknowledge your people's atrocities, and do everything you can to make amends for it. There are maybe 1 in a million white folks who do this. Those are the only ones who are good people. The rest of us are selfish, privileged, monstrous human beings.


This is HILARIOUS and completely delusional.
#14864080
Tainari88 wrote:What happened to Buzz? Did he get banned for a week? Over what? Oh well...

He really is upset over something. I guess for him it is hard being white. Maybe someone should start a new topic? It might start with something like this:

It is hard being a white man:

1) I am supposed to be at the top of the economic food chain and be a great success and have all the perks. But I don't. I struggle everyday for my daily bread. It is mostly the fault of who? ______________________. (Fill in the scapegoat).

2) I too have pain in my heart. My feelings get hurt when people expect me to be the top of the food chain when I am part of the racial group most committing suicide and that has to talk to others about how being white has kept me from affirmative action programs. I need an affirmative action program for white males who failed to become millionaires.

3) I am stuck having to pay for all the lazy minorities who are a burden on society. My taxes keep going up because of the amount of ____________________________. (The next scapegoat group).

All this can be resolved. It can. You just realize capitalism is going to squeeze everyone who is not the top 1% dry and that it is a systemic thing. It is including white men in the mix of people to squeeze dry. Then you can grow in knowledge of who the enemy is...and stop trying to live up to 'great success' expectations and sleep well at night, not worried about all the groups who are not white and not men somehow taking what is your heritage and birthright away.

You can finally start taking action to deal with your working class/middle class, etc class but not millionaire class status and be a man focused on something realistic and not a lot of scapegoating on the wrong people. :)


What's your race? Are you black? Brown? Asian? You really hate white people so much, your racism is disturbing almost as much as your eternal victim complex. Isn't healthy to be this envious, hateful and racist, You need to find a white or Asian psychiatrist or Yoga Guru to help you sort your demons :lol:
#14864083
The only way for it to be ok to be white is if you acknowledge your privilege, acknowledge your people's atrocities, and do everything you can to make amends for it. There are maybe 1 in a million white folks who do this. Those are the only ones who are good people. The rest of us are selfish, privileged, monstrous human beings.


I think it's just a sarcastic remark based on his previous posts. It really depends on which nationality you belong to. For instance, ethnic Russians are not responsible for imperial adventures in Africa or Asia done by the British, race crimes perpetrated by white South Africans in colonial South Africa or a genocide in Tasmania, for which white Aussies should be blamed. Holding all European ethnic groups accountable for colonial crimes in the past is too simplistic, which is like blaming all black ethnic groups for high crime rates in deprived areas in the West. I further argue that we don't have to apologize for atrocities committed by your own country a few generations ago, such as Stalin's famine in Ukraine, which was planned by Joseph Stalin to eliminate a Ukrainian independence movement.
#14864088
Agent Steel wrote:The only way for it to be ok to be white is if you acknowledge your privilege, acknowledge your people's atrocities, and do everything you can to make amends for it. There are maybe 1 in a million white folks who do this. Those are the only ones who are good people. The rest of us are selfish, privileged, monstrous human beings
Politiks's laughing at this stupid statement.

White privilege is not something you can make amends for, or even have revoked. It's simply there, and acknowledging it is all you can do. Knowing you are benefiting from it and remembering it when dealing with people who aren't benefiting, is all you can do.

Make amends? :lol: Even if you did, it'd only be making that amends in YOUR OWN MIND.


Edit: spelling
#14864134
Does anybody really care if the whites "make amends" for their privilege? The non-whites who have never had that privilege will still be envious and still feel resentful. It doesn't change the fact that some are "born with a silver spoon in their mouth" and that some enjoy flaunting it with their superior, arrogant attitude.

If you want to make amends...stop acting so damn arrogant and learn some humility, all right? Humility is so rare these days. If I ever meet a humble man, I might just fall in love with him. *swoons*
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