Rape Culture - Page 29 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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Polls on politics, news, current affairs and history.

Do you believe rape culture exist in the west?

Yes, rape culture exist in western societies
14
26%
No, rape culture does not exist or no longer exist in western societies
29
55%
Other
10
19%
By Sivad
#14915823
Pants-of-dog wrote:So, when we tell women they should dress a certain way or do certain things in order to not get raped, we are implying that they are (at least partly) responsible for their sexual assault.


Nobody is implying anything of the kind, that's just your bullshit misrepresentation. We teach our girls to respect themselves and that means not sexually objectifying themselves. We also warn them that when they do objectify themselves they're going to attract the wrong kind of attention and put themselves in danger because we do not live in a perfect world. I'd say that's a lot healthier than allowing a degenerate pop culture to train our daughters to be retarded sluts like most liberals do.

And teenagers also slut shame. So, in order to avoid having the whole high school calling them a slut, many teenage girls will not report their own sexual assault. They feel that they will be socially punished for allowing the sexual assault. Which then means that the boys who are sexually assaulting girls are more likely to get away with it.

And this is how slut shaming can increase sexual assault.


That's just a bullshit false dilemma. We can have reasonable standards without stigmatizing rape, it's not one or the other.
By B0ycey
#14915869
Kaiserschmarrn wrote:I don't understand where you get the idea from that I want or have tried to dictate the meaning. Could you explain or show me where I've done this? What I've intended to do - and I think I've done - is criticise the term's definition, not least because it encompasses a seemingly ever increasing set of behaviours, opinions and attitudes.


From what I gather from this, you accept the definition of 'rape culture' then. That would be to include its terms as the author would characterize might I add.

It is fair to say you are critical of its use. I won't argue that. But it would also be fair to say you have ignored the question of the poll by doing so. So now you have accepted the definition and the terms of the phase 'rape culture', can I ask. Do you think there is a rape culture? That is to include the opinions, attitudes and behavours of its definition. The very things that are prevalent in this very thread.

You can easily see this by going to the blog the OP article regards as "an excellent definition of rape culture" and which I linked earlier. Among other things, it claims that treating heterosexuality as the norm or using the word rape in a different context is rape culture. Furthermore, I have indeed put forward the idea that we should reject the term and not use it at all.


Sure. No one has said otherwise. The irony of course is by doing so you are complicit of 'rape culture'. The very term used in the poll and the OP. You can question its relevance. I have already addressed that I think that the phase is counterproductive in addressing a problem of an over sexualised society that sets the conditions for an acceptance of rape today. But my opinions are irrelevant to the OP or poll. And so are yours. So for a third time now you can keep bitching about the use of the phase 'rape culture' in a thread that uses its term or you can begin a new thread about why it shouldn't be used. Until then you will keep going down a rabbit hole of confusion.

You keep doing exactly what you say we shouldn't do: note that the article uses the phrase "physical and emotional terrorism" which you change to mean "mental terrorism" which you use to describe mental pressure to have sex. Not only are you dropping the "physical" entirely, but nothing in the OP's article suggests your interpretation of the phrase as a major area of concern of "rape culture" proponents. In fact, breaking taboos, and especially sexual taboos, is part and parcel of being progressive. Phrases such as being sexually repressed and being prudish have been used for decades by progressives to criticise and ridicule people.


You have got me there Kaiser. I meant to put emotional but for some reason wrote mental. Perhaps it was because people usually ignore that mental pressure (or emotional pressure if you like) can also be considered rape. but people, especially on here, only seem to want to accept physical rape as rape. As we (both sides) all are in agreement on physical rape, it seems silly to me that you want me to address a phase that everyone accepts is rape.

Nonetheless thanks for the last part in this statement in regards to how pressure has been placed by people for decades into criticizing and ridiculing people that are sexually conservative. Naturally I accept this as it proves there is a culture that pressurized people into having sex who are not ready - and now you have you have admitted this also - along with occuring for quite some time might I add. Kudos.

If I say to a women don't go home alone after a party, am I advising her or telling her? Honestly, you are either making this more complicated than necessary or trying to be too charitable. The central point is that putting the onus on the potential victim in any way is "victim blaming" and part of "rape culture".


Telling someone to do something can include ordering. Advising someone gives that person a choice. For example, if I tell you to wear something, that is different to advising you to wear something. Not that it matters of course. As I have already said, even if I accept your conditions and I am indeed part of 'rape culture', it is just more proof the term exists in today's society.

Please see above regarding your odd idea that I don't deal with the term as defined. Again, it seems to me that's what you have been doing.


Well I keep addressing the defined terms. Godstud keeps addressing the terms. And so does PoD. I have lost count the amount of times they have been published. The terms are not the problem. Your problem is that they exist in the first place. Ok. You have made your point countless times. That still doesn't change the fact that the term is used in the OP and the poll. Shall I say start a new thread again or will this be futile and you will continue to go round in circles yet again?


Albert wrote:I just do not understand people like BOycey, how can they just not get it? It is almost as if they can not not look at anything without their mainstream indoctrination view. How is this possible? Is he gay?


I don't know how you don't get it. You used the term and then asked a question. If you don't think the phase should be used, why the fuck did you use it in the first place? By using the term you accept its definition. But don't worry Albert. You have no worrys of being accused of rape as your mother will keep you safe in her basement. :lol:
By Pants-of-dog
#14915876
Sivad wrote:We all know exactly why they do it, demonizing men is a means of overturning the "patriarchy". It rallies the disaffected and disgruntled to their cause and weakens their perceived enemy. It's no mystery.


Yes, your conspiracy theory is very logical and well supported by evidence.

Sivad wrote:Nobody is implying anything of the kind, that's just your bullshit misrepresentation. We teach our girls to respect themselves and that means not sexually objectifying themselves. We also warn them that when they do objectify themselves they're going to attract the wrong kind of attention and put themselves in danger because we do not live in a perfect world. I'd say that's a lot healthier than allowing a degenerate pop culture to train our daughters to be retarded sluts like most liberals do.


If you are going to go around and call women degenerate retarded sluts for dressing a certain way and for being targeted for sexual assault, you are victim blaming.

That's just a bullshit false dilemma. We can have reasonable standards without stigmatizing rape, it's not one or the other.


Again, your feelings about it do not change the fact that many teenage women do not report rape because they do not want to be accused of being sluts.
User avatar
By Albert
#14915898
So B0ycey is part of the problem of rape culture.


Pants-of-dog wrote:you are going to go around and call women degenerate retarded sluts for dressing a certain way and for being targeted for sexual assault,
Wow Pants man, what the hell? You are supposed to be a shinning beacon for mankind, eliminating that misogynistic language one sentence at a time. Yet we are here witnessing you using such language.
User avatar
By One Degree
#14915902
We see the use of ‘sexual assault’ to justify ‘rape culture’. It is obvious they know the difference but are still willing to pretend it proves both are rape. Ridiculous. What purpose is there in pretending some guy fondling a woman means he will progress to rape? They are not the same and no amount of conflating will turn them into the same. One is about hormones and the other is about violent domination.
User avatar
By Godstud
#14916027
@One Degree, it all starts somewhere.

If a person is raised from a child to respect women, not to sexually objectify them, or victim blame, etc., then that person will not become a rapist.

Do you understand that ?
User avatar
By Kaiserschmarrn
#14916030
B0ycey wrote:It is fair to say you are critical of its use. I won't argue that. But it would also be fair to say you have ignored the question of the poll by doing so.

You keep telling me this as if it was a special insight, and I keep ignoring it because I already explained that I object to arguing this topic on the terms of "rape culture" proponents. Note that the poll has an "other" option and that in fact every poll on this board is required to have one, which, among other things, enables us to criticise a definition or concept that is proposed by the poll. So again and hopefully for the last time, I do not need to go along with the OP's definition in a literal and semi-autistic fashion, I'm in the right thread and there is no need for me to make a separate one.

B0ycey wrote:You have got me there Kaiser. I meant to put emotional but for some reason wrote mental. Perhaps it was because people usually ignore that mental pressure (or emotional pressure if you like) can also be considered rape. but people, especially on here, only seem to want to accept physical rape as rape. As we (both sides) all are in agreement on physical rape, it seems silly to me that you want me to address a phase that everyone accepts is rape.

Nonetheless thanks for the last part in this statement in regards to how pressure has been placed by people for decades into criticizing and ridiculing people that are sexually conservative. Naturally I accept this as it proves there is a culture that pressurized people into having sex who are not ready - and now you have you have admitted this also - along with occuring for quite some time might I add. Kudos.

The second paragraph above sounds like you think this is some kind of gotcha, but remember that I have already replied to an earlier post of yours and registered agreement or at least sympathy with some of what you said. Now if you believe that a sexual encounter that is partly driven by expectations is rape, then we quite obviously have an epidemic on our hands. Personally, I think this is an inane position and calling this "mental terrorism" is just as emotionally charged language as the term "rape culture" itself. Terror is defined as *extreme* fear and is not an appropriate description for a person worrying that they might be called prudish. Let's keep some perspective here, shall we?

As for "physical terrorism", the assertion in the OP is that this is condoned as the norm in our societies. However, in the above you seem to acknowledge that pretty much everybody agrees that rape that involves physical force is vile and disgusting. Since you keep insisting that I must go along with the OP's description and definition of "rape culture" and have repeatedly told me this, you ought to comply with your own rules as well, that is, you can't pick and choose aspects from the OP that you disagree with or don't acknowledge and at the same time hold that "rape culture" exists as set out in the OP.

You also don't address my point that your interpretation is quite at odds with the criticism progressives and feminists tend to put forward. What you call social pressure to have sex, they call sexual liberation. Or at least that's how it used to be. Either way, your impression that you and the feminists are somehow in agreement is contradicted by the fact that there's nothing to suggest that they acknowledge their own movement's substantial contribution to the hyper-sexuality that we see in our societies today.
User avatar
By One Degree
#14916033
Godstud wrote:@One Degree, it all starts somewhere.

If a person is raised from a child to respect women, not to sexually objectify them, or victim blame, etc., then that person will not become a rapist.

Do you understand that ?


Do you understand that has nothing to do with rape unless you accept your weird definition of it.
User avatar
By Godstud
#14916035
Are you being purposefully thick? Rape does NOT come from a learned respect and consideration of others. It comes from people learning quite the opposite, and eventually getting to the point where they think they can do it/get away with it. All the smaller aspects of rape culture contribute to this.

How can you understand this very simple concept?
User avatar
By Kaiserschmarrn
#14916039
Godstud wrote:If a person is raised from a child to respect women, not to sexually objectify them, or victim blame, etc., then that person will not become a rapist.

This is where progressives and I part ways. I strongly doubt that this works for everybody, that is, there will be people who rape despite having been told it's wrong, much like there will be people who murder, rob, or beat others to a pulp and there will be pedophiles who act on their vile sexual urges despite knowing very well that these actions are wrong and that society strongly disapproves.

Furthermore, I have yet to see sound evidence that sexual objectification and victim blaming as defined by progressives contribute to the incidence rate of rape, at least if we use a sane definition of rape.

Regarding sexual objectification, are you still OK with prostitution? It seems to me that a female selling her body and sex is the epitome of sexual objectification.
User avatar
By Godstud
#14916042
How is prostitution the epitome of sexual objectification? :eh: It does indeed make sex a commodity, but sex has always been a commodity that both men and women want. Drugs, alcohol, and anything else that makes people feel better, are commodities. Isn't it just the "sex" itself what is being sold, and not the woman/man?

If we live in capitalist societies, or actually in ANY society, we have to accept that there will be prostitution... even where it's illegal. I don't have the answer to that one, hence why it's a dilemma common to most human societies on earth.
User avatar
By Kaiserschmarrn
#14916051
Godstud wrote:How is prostitution the epitome of sexual objectification? :eh:

You can't be serious. To state the obvious:
Sexual objectification is the act of treating a person as a mere object of sexual desire.

What did you think sexual objectification means?

Prostitution is literally paying to use another person's body for sexual gratification. And let's be clear, it's almost exclusively men who demand this service. The percentage of females who go to prostitutes is negligible in comparison.
User avatar
By Godstud
#14916052
So what is the solution? I certainly don't have one.
User avatar
By Kaiserschmarrn
#14916057
You and I had a debate once in which you gave the impression that in your view prostitution is perfectly OK, which is why I'm asking if you have changed your mind.

As I said, I doubt whether most of what progressives consider sexual objectification contributes to the incidence of rape. Note that grid girls have been banned because of this.
User avatar
By Godstud
#14916062
I have had to reassess my impression on prostitution. It's changed.

What are "grid girls"?
User avatar
By Godstud
#14916070
OK. I watch F1 but I guess you don't see that unless you actually attend.
User avatar
By Zamuel
#14916081
Godstud wrote:Are you being purposefully thick? Rape does NOT come from a learned respect and consideration of others.

How can you understand this very simple concept?

Yes it actually does, to greater or lesser extent. You see at some point most youth reject implanted ideology. It's an assertion of individuality that in many cases is a "rite of passage" point for youth.

Your artificial "new morality" isn't any more attractive than the old morality was. All it really accomplishes is neurosis. How many children raised up in the "true religion" become atheists?

The bottom line with the concepts you've been advancing is: "what have you been smoking dude?"

Image

Zam ;)
User avatar
By Godstud
#14916085
:eh: Respect and consideration for others is an implanted ideology? What we learn from parents is not "ideology", but morality. Ideology is political. Morality is not.

[quote="Zam"]How many children raised up in the "true religion" become atheists?[/quote] Because religion is not logical, nor rational. Treating others with consideration and respect IS rational and logical in society. Your comparison shows lack of understanding of this concept, and indeed, on what ideology actually is.

In other words, you're the one who's out of touch with reality. I don't do drugs, unlike you, evidently.
User avatar
By Zamuel
#14916086
Godstud wrote::eh: Respect and consideration for others is an implanted ideology? What we learn from parents is not "ideology", but morality. Ideology is political. Morality is not.

No, ideology is philosophy more than anything, but call it frick or frack, I don't care. What you're talking about is "Brainwashing" children, and they know it, and they resent it, and eventually they reject it. They're out pissing swastikas on the neighbors lawn and you have no clue.

Treating others with consideration and respect IS rational and logical in society. Your comparison shows lack of understanding of this concept, and indeed, on what ideology actually is.

That must be why there's so much of it around, right. A couple dozen people can't even manage to respect each other on this silly forum. Out there, they're calling the cops on you because you wear a black T-shirt, because "Blacks aren't good tippers anyway." Burning crosses and beating each other with sticks. It's all just so rational and logical isn't it … What Have You Been Smoking ?!?!?

Zam :eek:
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