What's the value of human life? - Page 17 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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What's the objective value of human life?

1. Human life is special and sacred
7
19%
2. Human life is just expendable meat like any other life
4
11%
3. Human life is meat but we must act as if it is sacred for society to work
12
33%
4. Other
13
36%
#14929596
2+3=5
2+3=red also to 4% of the population.
Logic is a simplification of how we understand. It is not understanding.
Humans invented logic.
Humans are fallible.
Therefore Logic is fallible.
#14929599
One Degree wrote:Logic is a simplification of how we understand. It is not understanding.
Humans invented logic.
Humans are fallible.
Therefore Logic is fallible.


Image
#14929600
So you deny He died on the cross Albert? :excited:

The syllogism you presented is true, but it is not sufficient to describe the whole of Christ's nature as fully God and fully Man. That would require several complex syllogisms i'd imagine.

You need to learn basic logic before you will be able to tackle the hypostatic union or Anselm's argument from Cur Deus Homo. :lol:
:roll:

How do you define immortality then? What is immortality? Remember Christ defined immortality as not related to physical realm. So if the body died it does not mean the soul or you actually died.
#14929603
Albert wrote:How do define immortality then? What is immortality?


can never die/will not die.

which is not true regarding the Christ and your syllogism is not only valid, but still orthodox. IT is only heresy if taken without any other syllogisms (a denial of the Divine Nature).

I do not think the hypostatic union could be demonstrated in a single syllogism (thats just my gut instincts); however,

I would probably argue it by starting from the Trinity and use ideas from Anselm to develop the argument further.

I intend to create such a syllogism, just haven't had time yet.

However, I digress.

The point is that the syllogism you gave was not invalid nor was it technically unsound in-itself. Jesus Christ is fully man and He really died on the Cross, that is Christian orthodoxy 101.

You only get into Arianism when no consideration of His Divine nature is made (if we left it there).

So don't you roll your eyes at me young man!
#14929606
Victoribus Spolia wrote:Image


Your claim seems to be based upon humans creating perfection in logic. Do you believe humans are capable of creating perfection?
#14929607
One Degree wrote:Your claim seems to be based upon humans creating perfection in logic. Do you believe humans are capable of creating perfection?


I deny that logic could be created by humans, so I reject your conclusion because your premise is under contention (you simply assumed that I would agree to it).
#14929608
Saeko wrote:As PoFo's greatest, exalted, feared, and most high logician, I will deign to reveal the Truth to you lowly peasants (purely out of the goodness of my heart, though I expect a sacrifice of a virgin soon). VB is right on this matter, and Boycey's arguments are vacuous.


No way! B0ycey is pofo's resident Vulcan.



► Show Spoiler
#14929609
Sivad wrote:No way! B0ycey is pofo's resident Vulcan.


Image

Albert wrote:Can a soul die?


We are getting off-topic Albert.

Define "soul."

Define "die."

and then I will give you my answer.
#14929610
Victoribus Spolia wrote:I deny that logic could be created by humans, so I reject your conclusion because your premise is under contention (you simply assumed that I would agree to it).


How can it exist without them?
#14929612
One Degree wrote:How can it exist without them?


God.

Also, logic cannot have been created by man, because that would assume that there was a pre-logical reasoning that could infer logic's laws.

This is impossible as such a claim cannot be proven (mainly because logic is axiomatic), and also because such a position is unintelligible and therefore meaningless.
#14929613
Victoribus Spolia wrote:God.

Also, logic cannot have been created by man, because that would assume that there was a pre-logical reasoning that could infer logic's laws.

This is impossible as such a claim cannot be proven (mainly because logic is axiomatic), and also because such a position is unintelligible and therefore meaningless.


So you have a belief in logic?
#14929615
Victoribus Spolia wrote:We are getting off-topic Albert.

Define "soul."

Define "die."

and then I will give you my answer.
Jesus man, relax, why you guys are all up in arms around here, we are just having a harmless debate.

Are you trolling me? Are you not Christian who should understand these basic concepts?

Soul: Existence of oneself, separate from the body and this "world".

Die: Seize to exist.
#14929617
Victoribus Spolia wrote:I don't understand the question. :eh:

Please clarify.


You can not prove God exists, but you believe he does. Anything attributed to God must also be based upon belief. Therefore the basis of logic would be belief, would it not?
#14929618
Albert wrote:Are you trolling me? Are you not Christian who should understand these basic concepts?


I have a Masters in Theology Albert. I am not trolling and yes I understand the concepts, I am showing you how they are argued in relation to how they are confessed.

Albert wrote:Soul: Existence of oneself, separate from the body and this "world".


I would argue that the soul is incorporeal (being consciousness) and therefore cannot die (as no decomposition could obtain). Likewise I confess this belief as a Christian.

Also, I think you mean "Cease" to exist. ;)

Thus, when we speak of human morality, we speak of the human body dying as a consequence of the Fall.

"in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive. But each in this own order"

1 Corinthians 15:22-23
#14929620
Albert wrote:Jesus man, relax, why you guys are all up in arms around here, we are just having a harmless debate.


You don't understand how VS works yet Albert then have you? He wants to debate with agreed principles so he can win an argument. Hence why he wants to debate Saeko (and Potemkin) with agreed definitions prior to a debate. But that is not how debates work. That is why when he is presented with the 'All men are Mortal' and Christ is a Man, argument he can say he doesn't agree with the principle put forward as men don't define what logic is. Funny, the term is created by man and if it was never created then it would have no meaning. :lol:
#14929621
Victoribus Spolia wrote:I have a Masters in Theology Albert. I am not trolling and yes I understand the concepts, I am showing you how they are argued in relation to how they are confessed.
Ahh, okay it all makes sense now. Please forgive my arrogant peasant self then. *prostrates himself*


I would argue that the soul is incorporeal (being consciousness) and therefore cannot die (as no decomposition could obtain). Likewise I confess this belief as a Christian.

Also, I think you mean "Cease" to exist. ;)

Thus, when we speak of human morality, we speak of the human body dying as a consequence of the Fall.

"in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive. But each in this own order"

1 Corinthians 15:22-23
Well in this sense no man can actually die then.
#14929622
B0ycey wrote:You don't understand how VS works yet Albert then have you? He wants to debate with agreed principles so he can win an argument. Hence why he wants to debate Saeko (and Potemkin) with agreed definitions prior to a debate. But that is not how debates work. That is why when he is presented with the 'All men are Mortal' and Christ is a Man, argument he can say he doesn't agree with the principle put forward as men don't define what logic is. Funny, the term is created by man and if it was never created then it would have no meaning.


Triggered.
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