[Agent Steel]

A lot of people are claiming that Donald Trump is Vladimir Putin's puppet and that somehow Russia rigged the election to help Trump win.

This may be true.

However, I don't think so. I think it's a conspiracy theory with no basis. What do you think?

[Albert]

No, Donald Trump won on his own accord. Perhaps Russia did try to sway the electorate to Trump's favor and their actions did have limited success. Yet as we can see with the rest of western world populist candidates are succeeding in governance as Trump did in USA. This is not Russia's doing but a general trend that is happening not just in US but Europe and other part of western world.

Russia has been used by the establishment as a boogeyman and Russiagate is a ploy in an attempt to impeach Trump.

[hartmut]

Highly appreciated historian https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_D._Snyder puts it that way:

I think he is well right.
And probably Trump is exposed to Russian blackmail.
That's not happening first time.
But it is first time that an US-President sides with a foe in such way as performed in Helsinki now.
And he even suggests to

[hartmut]

.. share intelligence with the alleged culprit to bring exoneration for himself.

All that was never been heard of.

[Rugoz]

Other: This is a shit poll confusing different things.

1) Russia interfering 2) Russia interfering to help Trump win 3) Trump winning because of Russian interference 4) Trump being a Russian "puppet", i.e. colluding with Russia.

My answer would be:

1) True
2) It's more a strategy to spread dissent
3) Unlikely
4) Possible given Trump's character, yet unlikely

[Albert]

A historian that wrote a book about Tyranny?

This is why academia is terrible these days.

[Beren]

It may be a shit poll, but it's good for revealing whether how many devoted-to-the-core Trumpites there are on PoFo.

[hartmut]

Snyder wrote "Bloodlands", "The Red Prince" investigating meticulously the late Habsburgs (maybe Kaiserschmarrn will draw some insights from it), and he wrote "On Tyranny - 20 Lessons to be learned from the 20th Century".
If you didn't read anything of that, but nevertheless have an opinion about it:
Congratulations. You'd fit in a current world of post-truth.
.. little idea, but strong opinion and beating heavy drums.
So tell me, if you please, what is wrong with Snyder?

[hartmut]

That was for "Albert"..

[Albert]

Similarly it exposes never-Trumpsters. (@Beren)

To quote Mr, Snyder the historian there @hartmut. He asks in the end of the video are we a sovereign country or not? Good question, Democrats do not seem to think we have a border, what is the problem for them if Russia tried to influence American election through the internet? They let gangsters from Mexico to walk across the border and stay in US until they get amnesty.

Anyways there is so much that Mr Snyder says there that is questionable. Just the assumption alone that Trump is fully a created character. How so? Where is evidence of that? Just because he was a reality tv host? He ran the hotel/construction business for decades after his father died, Mr Snyder just throws that out of the window as fake, without even presenting at least one or two evidence as to why. Why should I believe him? Because he is a historian?

I understand this is a short video and he does not have much time to present his point, yet that is a pretty drastic assertion right there from a get go. It also does not explain the fact, how did Trump get elected even thought he was labeled as a racist, rapist, demagogue by most of the mass media?

[Beren]

Similarly it exposes never-Trumpsters. (@Beren)

Do you mean people who don't have their heads up their arses and dare to see the obvious?

[Albert]

Do you mean people who don't have their heads up their arses and dare to see the obvious?

No I mean people who act arrogantly online because they think they are better then others.

[Beren]

No I mean people who act arrogantly online because they think they are better then others.

Well, anyone's patience and tolerance have limits.

[ThirdTerm]

The GRU is the foreign military intelligence agency of the General Staff of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation. DCLeaks & Guccifer 2.0 operated on Twitter to release leaked DNC files and Muller claims that both accounts were created by the Russian military intelligence agency. Probably IP addresses of these Twitter accounts were traced back to Moscow and St Petersburg, which were left every time they logged into these accounts. DCLeaks' website was hosted by Catalin Floricain on a former chicken farm near Craiova, Romania.

They are charged with hacking the computer networks of members of Hillary Clinton’s campaign, the Democratic National Committee, and the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee. They allegedly coordinated to release damaging information to sway the election under the names “DCLeaks” and “Guccifer 2.0.” However, Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein told reporters that it’s unclear if their efforts changed the outcome of the election.

The indictment comes just days before President Donald Trump is set to meet with Russian President Vladimir Putin in Helsinki. Trump so far has said he believes Putin’s denials that his country interfered in the election in any way.

You can read the entire indictment below:
https://www.vox.com/2018/7/13/17568806/ ... -full-text

[Heisenberg]

Other: They probably did "interfere", but I don't care. It was ultimately Americans who checked the box to elect the Great Orange Buffoon, and it's time Americans started thinking about the deeper reasons why that happened, rather than pretending Vladimir Putin is some kind of all-powerful supervillain with mind control rays.

America's rank hypocrisy in thinking interference in foreign elections is fine when they do it, but an outrage against common decency if it happens to them, is really fucking annoying.

[Beren]

Yeltsin was really something Putin could never forgive.

[Missus V. Spolia.]

This whole Russia obsession is a conspiracy theory being blasted without real proof 24/7. Its only going to piss off voters and make them support Trump.

No one takes it seriously anymore.

[Pants-of-dog]

I thought everyone stopped taking US politics seriously when they elected Trump.

I know I started laughing then.

[Missus V. Spolia.]

If we weren't taken seriously then why is every country's news obsessed with our scandals?

People can laugh all they want, but no one is ignoring the greatest power in the world.

Thats just a lie.

[Beren]

I thought everyone stopped taking US politics seriously when they elected Trump.

I know I started laughing then.

Trump is a serious issue actually. Clinton's impeachment was the absolute low of seriousness.