[Pants-of-dog]

Another possiblity exists? Yet more confusion..

So "I am a man" could mean:

"I am a man" or "I am lying about being a man" or "I don't know what man means but whatever it is I am down for it ready or not" or "duh, I doesn't know what words mean (drool)" or something else as yet undiscovered.

Your inability to imagine scenarios where the person is not an idiot or a liar is not an argument.

Obviously, a person who is biologically male could have a gender identity (this part may be confusing because we have not discussed this yet) that is female.

Or they could be presenting as female by filling female gender roles.

[Victoribus Spolia]

female gender roles.

If female is a sex designation how can it also be a role?

The idea of a man identifying as a woman still assumes a male-behavior and female-behavior dichotomy.

The fact that its still assuming sex-distinctions is then made evident in their attempt to modify their anatomy.

If genders were merely cultural, it would not matter what plumbing you had and there would be no need to change their physiological aspects.

So this can't simply be about changing a cultural norm, or else no sex reassignment surgery would be necessary. You could simply change your gender (cultural role) and be done with it.

So obviously even gender assumes a certain biological notion of sex, they are not entirely separate, even in the mind of the trans community.

[Pants-of-dog]

If female is a sex designation how can it also be a role?

Because sex designation and gender roles are two different things even though they are related.

The idea of a man identifying as a woman still assumes a male-behavior and female-behavior dichotomy.

Yes, this dichotomy is quite engrained in our culture.

The fact that its still assuming sex-distinctions is then made evident in their attempt to modify their anatomy.

If genders were merely cultural, it would not matter what plumbing you had and there would be no need to change their physiological aspects.

So this can't simply be about changing a cultural norm, or else no sex reassignment surgery would be necessary. You could simply change your gender (cultural role) and be done with it.

So obviously even gender assumes a certain biological notion of sex, they are not entirely separate, even in the mind of the trans community.

Since no one has claimed that gender is not associated with biological sex (especially in our culture!) this criticism is not relevant.

Yes, our cultural notions of gender are closely related to the two biological sexes.

[Beren]

Other: twenty one.

[Zionist Nationalist]

There are two genders, anything else is just a mental illness.

[Victoribus Spolia]

@Pants-of-dog,

Would you let your son wear a dress and nail polish in public if they asked you.

Yes or No?

[Pants-of-dog]

@Pants-of-dog,

Would you let your son wear a dress and nail polish in public if they asked you.

Yes or No?

Yes. Why not?

[Victoribus Spolia]

Yes. Why not?

What if he wanted to become a girl and was sincere.

Would you and your spouse facilitate his transition as a child, including the removal of his genitalia?

Yes or No?

Feel free to explain your reasoning.

[Pants-of-dog]

Can you explain the relevance of this line of questions?

[Victoribus Spolia]

It is relevant to the OP, consider yourself a case subject regarding the familial and practical implications of contemporary gender theory.

Why don't you just answer the question Pants.

You'll live. I promise.

[Pants-of-dog]

It is relevant to the OP, consider yourself a case subject regarding the familial and practical implications of contemporary gender theory.

Why don't you just answer the question Pants.

You'll live. I promise.

So it is not relevant. Okay.

Let me know when you want to discuss my actual argument. Thanks.

[Rancid]

Ohh come on PoD, don't cop out, I'm genuinely curious at your answer to this question.

[Nonsense]

Genders do not objectively exist.

They are social constructs.

So, according to your OPINION, genders do not objectively exist.

In your world, as a pedestrian, you would deny the 'objective' reality of cars on the road & proceed to cross the motorway without pausing to judge whether the cars you see are real or not?

Lets try an 'objective' test then.

You get up in the morning, go to your bathroom where there is a full length mirror & you have no clothes on.
Tell everyone what 'objectively' you see before you between your legs?

Do you see anything, other than 'MALE' or 'FEMALE' organs?

Assuming that you are not an 'hermaphrodite', what range of possibilities do you objectively see before you using this 'mirror'-test apart from male, female or hermaphrodite?

The operative word is 'objectively' & NOT 'subjectively'(what you think you may wish to see in your mind)

[Pants-of-dog]

Ohh come on PoD, don't cop out, I'm genuinely curious at your answer to this question.

Okay.

My spouse and I would facilitate his transition as a child. Whether or not this included the removal of his genitalia would depend on many factors, but I do not see this happening before adulthood unless there were very good reasons.

All of this would happen would the support and advice of medical professionals.

But since I do not have a son, it would make more sense to think of it as a female to male transition.

@Nonsense

Sex is objective. Gender is not. Sex is biological. Gender is cultural.

[Rancid]

Okay.

My spouse and I would facilitate his transition as a child. Whether or not this included the removal of his genitalia would depend on many factors, but I do not see this happening before adulthood unless there were very good reasons.

All of this would happen would the support and advice of medical professionals.

But since I do not have a son, it would make more sense to think of it as a female to male transition.

@Nonsense

Sex is objective. Gender is not. Sex is biological. Gender is cultural.

That's reasonable enough. I was hoping for something a little more controversial.

[Pants-of-dog]

That's reasonable enough. I was hoping for something a little more controversial.

I WILL FORCIBLY CHANGE EVERYONE’S GENDER.

[SolarCross]

Other: twenty one.

Well spotted. Fixed now, thanks.

[Red_Army]

I'm not going to read this thread, but I think the right should focus on diabetes and heart disease rather than illnesses of the brain. They are a much realer doom on their horizons.

[Victoribus Spolia]

@Pants-of-dog,

1. Is gender identity a choice?

2. Would showing opposition to one's gender identity be discrimination in the same manner as discriminating against someone on the basis of race, in your opinion?

[Pants-of-dog]

@Pants-of-dog,

1. Is gender identity a choice?

2. Would showing opposition to one's gender identity be discrimination in the same manner as discriminating against someone on the basis of race, in your opinion?

1. I do not know. Nor do I see it as important.

2. It would depend on cultural factors.