[SolarCross]

Why is any of this important to you?

Just pedantry. If someone says something glaringly false I feel compelled to correct them. If you started on about how mules were a new species of horse then I'd feel compelled to point out that mules are a donkey horse hybrid who don't qualify as a new species due to their crushingly low fertility preventing mules making more mules. It's the same thing.

[Pants-of-dog]

Why is it important to you?

Why is this debate important to me?

From a moral perspective, I feel we should try and support oppressed and marginalised people in their struggle to have their equality recognised. I do not expect you to agree or even care.

From a more practical perspective, the end goal is to smash the state, end capitalism, and usher in a better tomorrow. Having a working class that is not divided by this bigotry is a necessary step. I do not expect you to agree or care about this either.

So, why is it important to you?

Are you saying there a specific gender roles? So women have specific gender roles in our society so do men?

Yes, that is what I am saying.

—————————

Just pedantry. If someone says something glaringly false I feel compelled to correct them. If you started on about how mules were a new species of horse then I'd feel compelled to point out that mules are a donkey horse hybrid who don't qualify as a new species due to their crushingly low fertility preventing mules making more mules. It's the same thing.

I find this odd, since most pedants (such as myself) enjoy having specific terms for different things. One word specifically for this, another for that.

So we like having one word for biolgical sex, and another for cultural gender.

We also like hair splitting about gender identity and gender roles.

You seem more intent on arguing that these are all the same thing and we should not worry about little details.

Your position seems like the exact opposite of pedantry.

[Albert]

Yes, that is what I am saying.

But that means feminism is wrong then and that men and women can not perform same roles. Is this what you are saying Pants?

[SolarCross]

I find this odd, since most pedants (such as myself) enjoy having specific terms for different things. One word specifically for this, another for that.

So we like having one word for biolgical sex, and another for cultural gender.

We also like hair splitting about gender identity and gender roles.

You seem more intent on arguing that these are all the same thing and we should not worry about little details.

Your position seems like the exact opposite of pedantry.

Except you want to call some men women and some women men, that's a basic taxonomic error right there.

It's like saying a car became a motorcycle just by taking off two wheels. No, it doesn't work like that.

[Pants-of-dog]

But that means feminism is wrong then and that men and women can not perform same roles. Is this what you are saying Pants?

No, I am saying that men and w9men have different gender roles. That means that wmen and men are expected to do certain things according to what society has decided for each gender.

I have already given examples of people filling the gender roles associated with the opposite sex.

So if you think I am saying that that is impossible, you have misunderstood and think I am arguing the exact opposite of what I already said.

————————-

Except you want to call some men women and some women men, that's a basic taxonomic error right there.

Using the taxonomy I have already described, i.e. gender roles, gender identity, and sex, please explain how I am making a taxonomic error.

It's like saying a car became a motorcycle just by taking off two wheels. No, it doesn't work like that.

Then please explain my error. Thanks.

[Pants-of-dog]

Double post. My apologies.

[Albert]

Wait, I'm sorry Pants, I still do not understand, are you saying men and women can not perform the same roles?

[Pants-of-dog]

Wait, I'm sorry Pants, I still do not understand, are you saying men and women can not perform the same roles?

No, I am not saying that.

[SolarCross]

Using the taxonomy I have already described, i.e. gender roles, gender identity, and sex, please explain how I am making a taxonomic error.

Then please explain my error. Thanks.

An instance of homo sapiens possessing a penis, XY chromosomes and all the other classic male traits like facial hair, upper body strength etc. is classed as a male, and a boy before puberty and a man after puberty.

A male has the gender role of supplying semen to the reproductive process.

An instance of homo sapiens possessing a vagina, XX chromosomes and all the other classic female traits like breasts is classed as a female and as a girl before puberty and a woman after puberty.

A female has the gender role of supplying ova, her womb as an incubation chamber and anti-natal nutrition through her breast milk, to the reproductive process.

There are no other genders unless broken is a gender.

[Ter]

Somebody help me please!
I am a lesbian woman trapped in this man's body !

[Albert]

No, I am not saying that.

Then if what I assume you are saying, is that men and women roles can be the same. (Especially in progressive society benefited by feminism, as where we expect the same thing from women as of men.) How do you then, identify yourself as a man or a woman?

[Godstud]

@Albert You choose who you are attracted to, don't you? How is it any different if someone else chooses something different? Aren't you choosing your identity, and not someone else?

Others might judge you dress or what gender roles you demonstrate, but that doesn't mean that they're correct about your gender.

The problem is that most of the posters here think that they have the right to determine the sexual identity of someone else based on their sex, or specific gender role.

How do you then, identify yourself as a man or a woman?

You are identifying your sex, and not necessarily your gender. Most discrimination is based on sex, but there is a lot based on gender, as well, that is evidenced in this thread.

[Albert]

@Albert You choose who you are attracted to, don't you? How is it any different if someone else chooses something different? Aren't you choosing your identity, and not someone else?

Others might judge you dress or what gender roles you demonstrate, but that doesn't mean that they're correct about your gender.

The problem is that most of the posters here think that they have the right to determine the sexual identity of someone else based on their sex, or specific gender role.

If we choose our sexual orientation as sexual identity, then it means homosexuals can choose to be straight.

You are identifying your sex, and not necessarily your gender. Most discrimination is based on sex, but there is a lot based on gender, as well, that is evidenced in this thread.

Yes, but again how do you define a gender role? In progressive enriched by feminism society, our gender roles are one of the same, be they men or women. So how then do you identify as a man or a woman? What criteria makes one a man or a woman in such society?

So how then can anyone choose their gender? Unless there is actually a difference in gender roles.

[Pants-of-dog]

An instance of homo sapiens possessing a penis, XY chromosomes and all the other classic male traits like facial hair, upper body strength etc. is classed as a male, and a boy before puberty and a man after puberty.

An instance of homo sapiens possessing a vagina, XX chromosomes and all the other classic female traits like breasts is classed as a female and as a girl before puberty and a woman after puberty.

This is sex designation, not gender.

A male has the gender role of supplying semen to the reproductive process.

A female has the gender role of supplying ova, her womb as an incubation chamber and anti-natal nutrition through her breast milk, to the reproductive process.

No. You are using “gender role” incorrectly here.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_role

There are no other genders unless broken is a gender.

https://m.ranker.com/list/third-genders ... l-souerbry

It seems you are incorrect.

————————

Then if what I assume you are saying, is that men and women roles can be the same. (Especially in progressive society benefited by feminism, as where we expect the same thing from women as of men.) How do you then, identify yourself as a man or a woman?

I also never said that gender roles for men and woman are the same. They could be the same, but they are not.

Why is this important to you?

[Albert]

I also never said that gender roles for men and woman are the same. They could be the same, but they are not.

Why is this important to you?

So are you saying gender roles are the same or not? Or you saying some are the same and some not? If you are saying some gender roles are not the same, which are those are not the same then?

And what you mean Pants, this is very important.

[Godstud]

If we choose our sexual orientation as sexual identity, then it means homosexuals can choose to be straight.

It's just not that simple, unfortunately. We do choose, but how much is actually choice is debatable? Don't you think a homosexual would choose to be straight and avoid all the discrimination that goes with being a homosexual, if it was fully a choice?

Yes, but again how do you define a gender role? In progressive enriched by feminism society, our gender roles are one of the same, be they men or women. So how then do you identify as a man or a woman? What criteria makes one a man or a woman in such society?

Gender roles are roles traditionally designated for one gender.

Being a nurse is a gender role. Wearing a skirt is a gender role(unless you're Scottish/Welsh, etc.).

Here's something to help, maybe.
https://study.com/academy/lesson/gender ... -quiz.html

[SolarCross]

This is sex designation, not gender.

Gender is dependant on sex; the mapping is one to one and has been always. If you want to radically change the taxonomy of every culture that has ever existed you need to come up with a very good reason to do so and I have not seen that yet.

[Godstud]

That's not true, though.

What Is The Difference Between Sex And Gender?
The difference between sex and gender is that sex is a biological concept based on biological characteristics, whereas gender deals with personal, societal and cultural perceptions of sexuality.

What does “gender” mean? How is it different from ‘sex’?
Unlike “sex”, gender does not have a basis in science, although it is affected by the biological and physiological characteristics we display as “males” and “females”. Instead, gender is based on the societal constructions and belief systems put in place that deal with masculinity and femininity. The gender identity that most people adhere to is usually unconscious, or forced upon us at an early age. We see the concepts of gender in the colors assigned to children (blue for boys, pink for girls), the common length of our hair (men-short, women-long), the toys we play with, the jobs we aspire to, and the behaviors and interests we are “supposed” to embrace.

To summarize, many people believe that “Sex” is determined by nature, whereas “Gender” is determined by nurture, but even that is too binary a classification. Sex does impact gender, but neither of these qualities in a person is a definition. These concepts help us understand who a person is, not what they are, which allows the opportunity for personal choice and change. Neither of these words is a definition, but rather a description, and should be treated accordingly.

https://www.scienceabc.com/eyeopeners/w ... ender.html

[SolarCross]

That's not true, though.

Ideological pseudo-science is not real science.

[Albert]

It's just not that simple, unfortunately. We do choose, but how much is actually choice is debatable? Don't you think a homosexual would choose to be straight and avoid all the discrimination that goes with being a homosexual, if it was fully a choice?

Yes, you would think so! I know, right.

Gender roles are roles traditionally designated for one gender.

Being a nurse is a gender role. Wearing a skirt is a gender role(unless you're Scottish/Welsh, etc.).

Here's something to help, maybe.
https://study.com/academy/lesson/gender ... -quiz.html

So gender roles are only possible in traditional society?