How Many Genders Are There? - Page 2 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

Wandering the information superhighway, he came upon the last refuge of civilization, PoFo, the only forum on the internet ...

Polls on politics, news, current affairs and history.

How Many Genders Are There?

One
No votes
0%
Two
26
63%
Three
2
5%
Between four and ten
No votes
0%
Between eleven and twenty
1
2%
Twenty one or more
1
2%
Other
11
27%
#14940157
Pants-of-dog wrote:Please note that I said there COULD BE an infinite number of genders depending on which culture is having the discussion.

And then I said WE HAVE TWO because I was discussing modern western society.

For someone who was ridiculing others about their grasp of English, it appears you could work on reading comprehension.

Also, you have not shown how I was incorrect about anything I said.

So after all that you agree with the rest of us that there are just two genders? Why don't you just vote two and be done with it?
#14940160
Pants-of-dog wrote:Because that is only true within our society due to the specific constructs we use.

It is not objectively true that there are two genders.

So in your opinion how many genders are there (objectively)?
#14940162
Pants-of-dog wrote:Genders do not objectively exist.

They are social constructs.

So if there are no genders at all in reality, why not just read "gender" as a synonym for "sex" as we always used to do?
#14940163
SolarCross wrote:So if there are no genders at all in reality, why not just read "gender" as a synonym for "sex" as we always used to do?


Because they are two different, but related, things.

Sex is biological. Gender is cultural.
#14940164
Pants-of-dog wrote:Because they are two different, but related, things.

Sex is biological. Gender is cultural.

But if a cultural concept is to be useful it should reflect reality, a biological reality in this case. If men can compete in women's athletic events because they redefined their gender to something it isn't then that creates issues, just for one example.
#14940166
SolarCross wrote:But if a cultural concept is to be useful it should reflect reality, a biological reality in this case. If men can compete in women's athletic events because they redefined their gender to something it isn't then that creates issues, just for one example.


Having a different word for social constructs is already useful because it is a separate thing from sex. This way, people can discuss the social aspects of sex, gender, etc. without getting confused between biological facts and social constructs.

This is true regardless of women’s sports.
#14940168
Pants-of-dog wrote:Having a different word for social constructs is already useful because it is a separate thing from sex. This way, people can discuss the social aspects of sex, gender, etc. without getting confused between biological facts and social constructs.

This is true regardless of women’s sports.

For example?
#14940169
SolarCross wrote:For example?


Are you asking me for an example of why it is useful to have separate words for biological sex and its associated cultural constructs?
#14940170
Pants-of-dog wrote:Are you asking me for an example of why it is useful to have separate words for biological sex and its associated cultural constructs?

No I am asking for an example of this reducing confusion because it seems to me all this bending of the definition of gender to peel it away from biology and make it subject to whimsy actually increases confusion as I already illustrated in the case of men competing in women's events due to supposedly having a different gender.

For another thing if I say "I am a man" am I referring to my sex or my gender? If gender and sex are synonyms, as they should be, then that question is moot. If they are not and gender can be something wildly different then what I mean when I say "I am a man" it is not at all clear, I might actually be a woman with a short haircut instead.

If sex and gender are synonyms and someone says "I am a woman" but they have a wang and associated testosterone levels then we can readily call them a liar and tell them they can't run in the women's events.
Last edited by SolarCross on 16 Aug 2018 17:50, edited 1 time in total.
#14940172
SolarCross wrote:No I am asking for an example of this reducing confusion because it seems to me all this bending of the definition of gender to peel it away from biology and make it subject to whimsy actually increases confusion as I already illustrated in the case of men competing in women's events due to supposedly having a different gender.


I do not find that confusing.

Perhaps the problem is you are easily confused. If so, that is not the fault of the word.

For another thing if I say "I am a man" am I referring to my sex or my gender? If gender and sex are synonyms, as they should be, then that question is moot. If they are not and gender can be something wildly different then what I mean when I say "I am a man" is not at all clear, I might actually be a woman with a short haircut instead.


Yes. And?

If sex and gender are synonyms and someone says "I am a woman" but they have a wang and associated testosterone levels then we can readily call them a liar and tell them they can't run in the women's events.


They are not synonyms. So this is a fanciful example that has no bearing on reality.
#14940173
Pants-of-dog wrote:I do not find that confusing.

Perhaps the problem is you are easily confused. If so, that is not the fault of the word.

Confusion is your natural element, clarity is mine. Hence why you like confused things and I like clear things.

Pants-of-dog wrote:Yes. And?

Can you give an example where a man describing himself as a woman or a woman describing herself as man reduces confusion? Isn't this just lying?


Pants-of-dog wrote:They are not synonyms. So this is a fanciful example that has no bearing on reality.

They were synonyms, some rot set in and now there are people tying to redefine them as different things.
#14940174
SolarCross wrote:Confusion is your natural element, clarity is mine. Hence why you like confused things and I like clear things.


Personal attack. Ignored.

Can you give an example where a man describing himself as a woman or a woman describing herself as man reduces confusion? Isn't this just lying?


I never talked about lying people. Nor were we discsusing liars.

They were synonyms, some rot set in and now there are people tying to redefine them as different things.


They have not been synonyms for a while now. Your complaining about the fact that they are not synonyms is not an argument for anything.
#14940184
SolarCross wrote:Well I suppose they could be confused or ignorant rather than wilfully lying, so fair point.


Again, this is not necessarily the case.

Would you like to try a third time?
#14940186
Pants-of-dog wrote:Again, this is not necessarily the case.

Would you like to try a third time?

Another possiblity exists? Yet more confusion..

So "I am a man" could mean:

"I am a man" or "I am lying about being a man" or "I don't know what man means but whatever it is I am down for it ready or not" or "duh, I doesn't know what words mean (drool)" or something else as yet undiscovered.
#14940188
Why do people presume that cultural notions of gender do not originate in the biological determinism of sex?

Gender having cultural aspects and sex being biologically and not mutually exclusive notions.
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 11

Sure, but they are too stupid to understand, Trum[…]

Israel-Palestinian War 2023

This is the issue. It is not changing. https://y[…]

@annatar1914 do not despair. Again, el amor pu[…]

I think we really have to ask ourselves what t[…]