[Victoribus Spolia]

For those who need up to speed, South Africa had a very violent and complicated colonial history followed by the white minority rule leading a black majority, this regime changed when the whites opened up political power to the black majority ending apartheid. The black majority, to counteract white advantages has one of the most extreme affirmative action policies (against whites, despite them being a small minority) in the world. Now, the black majority government has decided to take away white farm lands without full compensation via nationalization as reparations for colonialism from over 100 years prior. Some white farmers have voiced their intention to resist.

So, in South Africa, will there be a war? and if so, which side will be in the right in their use of violence?

[Missus V. Spolia.]

South Africa is heading for war, there will be Boers that cannot leave and both Europe and America have not taken this issue seriously enough to help them.

How much you want to bet that the same leftist who open their borders to the Muslims won't want to take their south African kindred?

Its just sick. I hope Trump does something to help them.

[Victoribus Spolia]

How much you want to bet that the same leftist who open their borders to the Muslims won't want to take their south African kindred?

Yeah, I'm curious to see how this goes down if a conflict leads to a refugee crisis; though refugees of war will likely feel to neighboring African countries not to Europe (Because of costs and chaos) and it questionable whether or not they might not get killed there as those African nations might actually be sympathetic to the ANC.

[Bulaba Khan Jones]

There will not be civil war in South Africa as a result of the government seizing excessively large farms from an extremely small group of people (the list is literally less than 200 people). Nor will this trigger a race war. The idea that there's a Boer identity in South Africa that wants to go back to their ancestral home in Europe, much less will band together to suddenly organize militias to fight on behalf of 200 wealthy farmers is ridiculous.

What this will do if it continues is damage the economy of South Africa. As skewed as it is, roughly 20% of the farms in SA produce 80% of its agriculture. Without being properly managed, or simply handed over to farmers with smaller plots of land and less equipment/capital, it will not be good for the economy. It goes without saying that the SA government is known for being notoriously corrupt and inefficient. Much as daydreams of a race war are one fantasy, it's also another fantasy for ANC officials to think their plan is going to work considering their track record.

[Victoribus Spolia]

As skewed as it is, roughly 20% of the farms in SA produce 80% of its agriculture. Without being properly managed, or simply handed over to farmers with smaller plots of land and less equipment/capital, it will not be good for the economy. It goes without saying that the SA government is known for being notoriously corrupt and inefficient. Much as daydreams of a race war are one fantasy, it's also another fantasy for ANC officials to think their plan is going to work considering their track record.

I suppose you are thinking of Zimbabwe on this?

I am also curious as to why you would be for or against the maneuver by the ANC. Its precedent in post-colonialist and marxian thought would make me think you would support this action, but your tone gives me a sense of skepticism on your part?

I am curious of your opinion.

There will not be civil war in South Africa as a result of the government seizing excessively large farms from an extremely small group of people (the list is literally less than 200 people). Nor will this trigger a race war. The idea that there's a Boer identity in South Africa that wants to go back to their ancestral home in Europe, much less will band together to suddenly organize militias to fight on behalf of 200 wealthy farmers is ridiculous.

I don't share your optimism here, namely because I don't think it will stop here and if there were any kind of violent backlash, it will spread to those farmers not involved in the initial land-grab.

The Afrikaners have a history of rebellious rampages when they get put in a corner and unless their character has radically changed (which is possible), I can definitely see this situation turning south.

[annatar1914]

The Afrikaners have a history of rebellious rampages when they get put in a corner and unless their character has radically changed (which is possible), I can definitely see this situation turning south.

They are welcome in Russia. And I seem to recall having read an article that about 15000 are considering the move to Southern Russia, as one who scouted out the territory said; ''this land is blessed by God for farming''.

[Ter]

Some of the white farmers whose land was taken in Zimbabwe have relocated to Zambia and some West African countries where they were welcomed with open arms. As far as I know, they are still there. There won't be a war but the South African wine industry and a lot of its agricultural output will go to the dogs.

[SolarCross]

They are welcome in Russia. And I seem to recall having read an article that about 15000 are considering the move to Southern Russia, as one who scouted out the territory said; ''this land is blessed by God for farming''.

You might welcome them, but the government wouldn't be so keen I guess. It is apparently pretty hard to get past the bureaucrats there, "Russia is for Russians". I'd migrate there myself but for that.

[Decky]

[Albert]

Did you not Brits betray your own in Rhodesia and just let them be overtaken by the rebels there? You take the saying of "Who needs enemies with such friends" to a totally different level.

[SolarCross]

The only Afrikaners I recall knowing were my landlords when I lived in Oxford, they migrated shortly after apartheid ended presumably fearing a backlash. They were pretty nice actually though I am white so I suppose they might be different in other contexts. I didn't really know much about the situation over there because I was young then and not very interested in politics but I did ask them about the black people there, and they said they were just like children. I left it at that.

[Potemkin]

For those who need up to speed, South Africa had a very violent and complicated colonial history followed by the white minority rule leading a black majority, this regime changed when the whites opened up political power to the black majority ending apartheid. The black majority, to counteract white advantages has one of the most extreme affirmative action policies (against whites, despite them being a small minority) in the world. Now, the black majority government has decided to take away white farm lands without full compensation via nationalization as reparations for colonialism from over 100 years prior. Some white farmers have voiced their intention to resist.

So, in South Africa, will there be a war?

Unlikely. Most whites in SA are not farmers, and agriculture is not the source of most whites' wealth. Basically, most whites just won't care enough about this to risk their lives and property fighting a civil war which they would probably end up losing anyway.

and if so, which side will be in the right in their use of violence?

The side which wins, obviously. Winning is the only justification which means anything.

[Bulaba Khan Jones]

I suppose you are thinking of Zimbabwe on this?

I am also curious as to why you would be for or against the maneuver by the ANC. Its precedent in post-colonialist and marxian thought would make me think you would support this action, but your tone gives me a sense of skepticism on your part?

I am curious of your opinion.

I am indeed thinking of Zimbabwe (as are all of us, and the people in and around South Africa with a vested interest). Zimbabwe fucked itself over by trying to apply racial ideals and reverse colonialism/land ownership by a small racial minority with a plan that wasn't thought out and didn't have long-term goals or even short-term careful management and planning. It's been decades and they still haven't recovered, of course.

I am indeed a Marxist, but the SA government is not socialist in character. Appropriating the land and farms from 200 very wealthy farmers will most likely be mismanaged like Zimbabwe was. I see no indications to the contrary. Further, I see no indications the farms aren't simply going to be handed over to other farmers, who won't have the equipment or money to properly run and maintain them the same way the current owners are. That spells problems for the economy. This is why I am also generally skeptical and dismissive of liberals in the West for similar reasons: their goals are capitalist. In SA, the problem is that even if they do this, there will be wealthy farmers eventually buying and acquiring more of SA's limited farmlands, and there will continue to be a concentration of most of SA's farmland in a very few hands, and nothing will change.

I don't share your optimism here, namely because I don't think it will stop here and if there were any kind of violent backlash, it will spread to those farmers not involved in the initial land-grab.

I work with a lot (literally: I'm not sure why there are so many South Africans of black/white/Indian ancestry working as teachers in Shanghai, but there's quite a lot) of South Africans, and I see no signs of a dire problem around the corner. Taking land from 200 farmers who have too much of a percentage of the overall farmland is one thing, but there's no government plans or justification to take land from any white person like in Zimbabwe. Although SA is a pretty corrupt country, it simply wouldn't work for them to try to apply the same idiotic policies as Zimbabwe.

Overall, this proposed action by the ANC government seems more like a short term political ploy to gain support and seem like they're a party serving the interests of the people. Going beyond taking land from very wealthy landowners is a bridge too far.

The Afrikaners have a history of rebellious rampages when they get put in a corner and unless their character has radically changed (which is possible), I can definitely see this situation turning south.

As Potemkin and I have pointed out, ANC's proposal affects 200 wealthy landowners. There's no reason to think white South Africans will rampage because a small group of rich people are about to have their land taken away, considering there's no chance the ANC government would suddenly turn on white people in general in SA (that's not how the ANC operates, and whites are not second class citizens).

[Code Rood]

I'd say that the country is already in a state of war. This will end with the Boer/Afrikaner population moving out of South Africa and/or getting massacred. There won't be international pressure on South Africa like there was during Apartheid either. The elitists and hypocrites among us can't admit to themselves and the rest of the world that the rainbow nation has become an utter failure.