I don't think being impervious to the not-self is a necessary criteria for being an individual. That alcohol affects me doesn't change that there is a me that is affected.
Moreover language makes it easier to communicate with other individuals but does not imply a shared feeling or allegience. Mortal enemies might share a language.
What makes a collective? Allegience? shared sensation?
What is a necessary criteria for being an individual?
Having a clear and distinct separation from another thing cannot be, as that is not satisfied, but you are still an individual.
I hever claimed language implied a shared feeling of allegiance. I said it was a collective tool. Language is a tool that is used by people together. Moreover, your brain would never have developed enough to think “je pense, donc je suis” unless it had been taught a language at a very young age.
You would not be you unless you were taught to use the collective tool that helps you think.
SolarCross wrote:Okay so apart from @Saeko who despite her (their?) unique personality believes she is (they are?) a collective we have POD who reluctantly accepts the reality of his individuality but nonetheless maintains that he is a collective at the same time. So let's look at that...
To test the proposition of whether someone can be an individual and a collective at the same time I will use my own self as the test subject rather than @Pants-of-dog because I am not @Pants-of-dog so I can't presume to speak for him. I am an individual that's a given, empirically so since that is my direct experience. Could I also be a collective? That begs the question which collective? I have British citizenship so maybe that means I am in the British collective? I speak English so maybe I am in the English language collective? Or I am a member the species homo sapiens so maybe that is a collective too? I like classical music, is there are classical music liking collective? Also I am quite tall. I wear clothes. I drink booze. I drive cars but not motorcycles, any of those and more could be collectives for all I know. I have travelled by plane a few times, perhaps I am in the flying collective? I approach the divine by means of the northern paganism, so perhaps that is another collective? The trouble is there are too many collectives and none of them are real the way I am real.
Yes, the group Homo Sapiens is as real as you are. In fact, it is real in the same way you are real.
Whether or not any of these are collectives depends on the definition of collective. You really should define it.
You do engage in collective action. When you complain about Muslim immigrants, you are defending the interests of a collective: European people. When you use money, you are engaging in the collective action we call “the economy”. The same could be said about voting, attending or playing in sports events, having a family, obeying traffic laws, and many other things.
Also, I never claimed to be a collective. Please do not presume to speak for me.