[B0ycey]

@B0ycey

A 'socialist leader' in the UK must work within a capitalist system so it is hardly socialism.

Capitalists are the rulers of everything.

So? The capitalist don't want a socialist leader and they will not be able to prevent it. My point. If communism is to be achieved democratically it will be. The only way to prevent it would be to rig the election. But if enough people support communism this will not be possible.

[Drlee]

It makes just about as much sense to refer to "Marxists" as if they were a homogeneous group of thinkers as it would be to do the same with Christians.

Marxism is big pants. There is a lot of room in there. Further. Marx does not really demand orthodoxy.

I would hate to think that there are Marxists out there who believe the only way to win a revolution is to take up arms and storm the Bastille.

[ingliz]

they will not be able to prevent it.

"It's not the people who vote that count, it's the people who count the votes."

- not Stalin

[B0ycey]

I would hate to think that there are Marxists out there who believe the only way to win a revolution is to take up arms and storm the Bastille.

This is a strong statement. And something that has relivance. The Russian Revolution can be used to argue for and against weapons btw. Lenin had the Army and the provisional government lost theirs and that is one argument. But in reality the revolution was not won by the gun but by strategy. It was won with numbers who believed in the Bolsheviks cause and controlling key infrastructure as they did so. There was not really any fighting and as such the need for guns is debatable - although it is wrong to say there is an advantage in not having them. So why should a Marxist be one dimensional in thinking when revolution can be achieved in many different ways?

[B0ycey]

"It's not the people who vote that count, it's the people who count the votes."

- not Stalin

Then there will be no Corbyn government. Although the capitalist did a shit job of rigging Brexit. Motherfuckers can't do anything right. Or perhaps their money can only buy so much power?

[ingliz]

There was not really any fighting

Don't be silly.

The Russian Civil War, 7 November 1917 – 25 October 1922, 9 million dead.

[B0ycey]

Don't be silly.

The Russian Civil War, 7 November 1917 – 25 October 1922, 9 million dead.

Sorry, I was talking prior to the November revolution but before the February revolution. But in reality the real revolution was in February and the November one was a coup. And that was won with civil unrest and not a war between the Reds vs Whites.

[Potemkin]

Sorry, I was talking prior to the November revolution but before the February revolution. But in reality the real revolution was in February and the November one was a coup. And that was won with civil unrest and not a war between the Reds vs Whites.

There was plenty of violence even before October, B0ycey. The July Days was just one example, not to mention Kornilov's attempted putsch.

[B0ycey]

There was plenty of violence even before October, B0ycey. The July Days was just one example, not to mention Kornilov's attempted putsch.

Sure there was violence. Can't argue with that one. But I was talking more about guns and their role. July days were protests. Kornilov is an example where guns can turn against you.

[ingliz]

But I was talking more about guns

Why do think that after 1905 you needed the permission of the local head of police to buy pistols and revolvers?


Hint: Think government officials, policemen, judges, military officers, priests, teachers, and the Czar's cousin, and what guns are designed to do.

[B0ycey]

Why do think that after 1905 you needed the permission of the local head of police to buy pistols and revolvers?


Hint: Think government officials, policemen, judges, military officers, priests, teachers, and the Czar's cousin, and what guns are designed to do.

Relivance to what I wrote?

[ingliz]

I was talking more about guns... Relivance to what I wrote?

Thousands of government officials, policemen, judges, as well as military officers, priests, teachers, and the Czar's cousin shot dead in 'terrorist' attacks on the streets of the Russian Empire.

[B0ycey]

Thousands of government officials, policemen, judges, as well as military officers, priests, teachers, and the Czar's cousin shot dead in 'terrorist' attacks on the streets of the Russian Empire.

So? You cannot just half quote a line from a sentence and create an argument. What is your point?

[ingliz]

What is your point?

Thousands of government officials, policemen, judges, as well as military officers, priests, teachers, and the Czar's cousin were being shot dead ("I was talking more about guns") in targeted attacks by terrorists ("Relivance") on the streets of the Russian Empire.

[B0ycey]

Thousands of government officials, policemen, judges, as well as military officers, priests, teachers, and the Czar's cousin were being shot dead ("I was talking more about guns") in targeted attacks by terrorists ("Relivance") on the streets of the Russian Empire.

So nothing to do with what I have written as the sentence finishes off with "and the role they play"

But just to go back to the begin as you feel you must argue, Drlee says that there must be more to Marxist thinking than just wanting to storm the Bastille with guns. I said there was as the Russian Revolution was won by strategy rather than the gun. Not that guns weren't used. Just their relevance.

[ingliz]

their relevance.

"In 1905... the nihilistic enemies of Christ seized the moment and instigated mutinies, strikes, riots and assassinations."

- Russian Orthodox Church

Orchestrated violence is always important. It provokes reaction.

[B0ycey]

Orchestrated violence is always important. It provokes reaction.

To have a revolution you should expect violence. You must be prepared for violence. And you must be counted. Guns will give you an advantage here, but ultimately Lenin took Russia when he controlled key infrastructure and he stormed the Winter Palace when the provisional government was weak. Not by storming the Winter Palace in a bloody coup.

[ingliz]

To have a revolution...

Revolution is a process not an event!

[B0ycey]

Revolution is a process not an event!

Quote me where I said this?

[ingliz]

the Russian Revolution was won by strategy rather than the gun.

Taking the Winter Palace was not the end of the revolution.

It was the beginning.

"The more perfect the revolution... the greater is the destruction."

Trotsky