[Godstud]

@BigSteve Expecting a country with the population the size of a small US town(less than 12,000), to have a powerful military, is incredibly stupid.

In what universe could a country so small have any potential or possibility of being militarily powerful? They obviously can't rely on military to provide any sort of defense, aside from policing it's country. They rely on friends and allies to maintain their sovereignty.

USA population 327 million. Are they going to have a military in a size relative to their population, and wealth? Of course they are. That's just simple math.

USA can't "flex its muscles" against countries like UK, France, Germany, Australia, etc., for the precise reason that they are allies, or have a great many that could cause potential economic damage to the USA if it tried to do so.

[Drlee]

The problem with the US's large military is not that it is necessary to defend us but rather that it was conceptualized to defend a whole lot of other folks. It is designed to protect trade first and foremost.

I prefer that the US maintain its very powerful military. I fear an arms race with China has already begun. The best way for the US to meet the Chinese threat is through alliances, not more ships. Yet, our current administration is destroying our tried and true alliances through arrogance and economic shenanigans.

And example.

The US can try to deploy sufficient forces to protect its interests in South East Asia. OR. As Godstud mentioned, it can for alliances with nations that can together with the US, oppose any threat. What nation is the best potential ally for the US in the region. By far and away it is Thailand. (So stop denigrating it BS and pay attention.) If allied with the US, Thailand can add the 13th largest military in the world to the alliance. Over 675,000 trained active and reserve service people.. It has almost 800 tanks, an aircraft carrier and 180 modern aircraft. (Including by the way over 50 F-16 Falcons.) It is engaged in a massive upgrading program.

Now you may wish to kick sand in their face but I would rather have them patrolling the sea with us rather than try to train and project that kind of power into the region. As an ally it can provide bases and logistical support if necessary. It is stable, capitalist and generally aligned with the west.

The point is that the US Navy is formidable. It is the third largest in the world (behind DPRK and China). It is the match of any navy in the world and then some. But allied with our traditional enemies like the UK, Australia, Canada it is unbeatable. If we can keep India in the fold it possesses even enough conventional power to challenge China's massive building program. Without them? It won't be long until we either have to spend a vast amount to match China an abandon any thought of hegemony in any ocean of the world.

Sabre rattling is fun but pointless unless one has the stuff to back it up. The fact is that though the US is very powerful its ability to project power is limited and shrinking under Trump who is allowing China to build like crazy and unopposed. He has not ordered a single new ship and has cut modernization budgets. There are new ships under design but no money for them. Meanwhile China just builds away..... while.....we are kicking sand in their faces.

Sigh

[Politics_Observer]

@Drlee

It looks like you had some unintentional mistypes in your post. But I think understand what you intended to say and the spirit of your post. The UK, Canada and Australia are our traditional allies. All three have been great allies. Yes, it's a good idea to have Thailand as an ally too. Allies are extraordinarily important. Success doesn't come by one person. It comes through a team effort.

If you ever want to succeed at anything in life, you are not going to do it all by yourself. You are going to need a team to back you up if you want to achieve anything or have any success. This means, the US needs allies and we can't afford to alienate or anger our allies. If we don't have our allies, we are in big trouble. It's also important that we as a nation remain humble and give our allies the utmost thanks and gratitude. I think we have taken our allies for granted and we do not always show the appreciate and gratitude that is due to our allies.

[Drlee]

@Politics_Observer You are absolutely right. That is exactly what I was trying to say.

[BigSteve]

@BigSteve Expecting a country with the population the size of a small US town(less than 12,000), to have a powerful military, is incredibly stupid.

In what universe could a country so small have any potential or possibility of being militarily powerful? They obviously can't rely on military to provide any sort of defense, aside from policing it's country. They rely on friends and allies to maintain their sovereignty.

USA population 327 million. Are they going to have a military in a size relative to their population, and wealth? Of course they are. That's just simple math.

USA can't "flex its muscles" against countries like UK, France, Germany, Australia, etc., for the precise reason that they are allies, or have a great many that could cause potential economic damage to the USA if it tried to do so.

You made this statement: "A bunch of average militaries = a powerful military."

That statement is false.

Get used to the idea...

[BigSteve]

But allied with our traditional enemies like the UK, Australia, Canada...

Um... Say what?

[late]

@Drlee

It looks like you had some unintentional mistypes in your post. But I think understand what you intended to say and the spirit of your post. The UK, Canada and Australia are our traditional allies. All three have been great allies. Yes, it's a good idea to have Thailand as an ally too. Allies are extraordinarily important. Success doesn't come by one person. It comes through a team effort.

If you ever want to succeed at anything in life, you are not going to do it all by yourself. You are going to need a team to back you up if you want to achieve anything or have any success. This means, the US needs allies and we can't afford to alienate or anger our allies. If we don't have our allies, we are in big trouble. It's also important that we as a nation remain humble and give our allies the utmost thanks and gratitude. I think we have taken our allies for granted and we do not always show the appreciate and gratitude that is due to our allies.

Good post, and it points at how thoroughly Putin has bamboozled Trump.

[BigSteve]

Good post, and it points at how thoroughly Putin has bamboozled Trump.

Actually, it doesn't say a word about either, but everyone here knows you're unable to post on PoFo unless you're taking stupid, childish pot shots at Trump.

Carry on...

[late]

Actually, it doesn't say a word about either, but everyone here knows you're unable to post on PoFo unless you're taking stupid, childish pot shots at Trump.

First thing Trump did was to gut the State Dept. Putie wanted it.

I could go down the list, it's a long one. When Trump can give what Putie wants, Putie gets.

There are dozens of things, but one of the worst is the way he has actively opposed cyberdefense.

[BigSteve]

[Politics_Observer]

@BigSteve

Actually, late has some good posts and is pretty awesome!

@late

Don't worry about Ole Steve [KS edit: rule 2].

[Patrickov]

I apparently missed the fun. If anyone can provide me the exact statement which got him carded I would be most grateful.

In reply to the Member posting the previous post, I enjoy reading this Carded Gentleman far more than the Poor Righteous Person whom he describe as "awesome". I have to say that reading that Righteous Person's posts make me rather depressed.

[Godstud]

Reality is often depressing, @Patrickov, so some people like to avoid it.

[Politics_Observer]

@Godstud @late @Patrickov

I haven't read all of late's posts, but the times that I have read late's posts, they seemed really nice and late strikes me as intelligent. A lot of these threads are long and I don't always have the time to read every single post somebody writes on these forums. But my intereactions with late has always been good and found late, based on what I have read to be a decent person. Maybe late said some depressing things I haven't seen. I don't know. Again, I simply don't have the time to read every post of every forum member makes on these forums (not of long threads where taking the time to read the entire thread would be time consuming). I just know what I saw from late never seemed unreasonable and struck me as somebody who was intelligent.

Steve on the other hand, well, he strikes me as insecure and allowing his emotions to get the best of him. Plus he describes himself as a "nationalist." As a patriot myself, I don't much care for nationalists. Their is a difference between the genuine article of patriotism and the notion of nationalism. Patriotism and nationalism are not the same thing. But, Steve's red card is between him and the site administrator and is none of my business.

Plus I find him to be blind to facts and logical conclusions from the facts and his support of Trump to be blind and very unwise. I am sure his red card was a result of his response to me and I have no idea what he said nor do I care. I am certainly not worried about it. He'll have to take his red card up with the owners of the site and again, it's none of my business. I don't own or run this place and I am a firm believer when it comes to members receiving discipline from the administrators of the forum to simply mind my own business as it doesn't involve or concern me.

[Patrickov]

@Godstud @late @Patrickov

I haven't read all of late's posts, but the times that I have read late's posts, they seemed really nice and late strikes me as intelligent. A lot of these threads are long and I don't always have the time to read every single post somebody writes on these forums. But my intereactions with late has always been good and found late, based on what I have read to be a decent person. Maybe late said some depressing things I haven't seen. I don't know. Again, I simply don't have the time to read every post of every forum member makes on these forums (not of long threads where taking the time to read the entire thread would be time consuming). I just know what I saw from late never seemed unreasonable and struck me as somebody who was intelligent.

Steve on the other hand, well, he strikes me as insecure and allowing his emotions to get the best of him. Plus he describes himself as a "nationalist." As a patriot myself, I don't much care for nationalists. Their is a difference between the genuine article of patriotism and the notion of nationalism. Patriotism and nationalism are not the same thing. But, Steve's red card is between him and the site administrator and is none of my business.

Plus I find him to be blind to facts and logical conclusions from the facts and his support of Trump to be blind and very unwise. I am sure his red card was a result of his response to me and I have no idea what he said nor do I care. I am certainly not worried about it. He'll have to take his red card up with the owners of the site and again, it's none of my business. I don't own or run this place and I am a firm believer when it comes to members receiving discipline from the administrators of the forum to simply mind my own business as it doesn't involve or concern me.

Next time I will separate the posts whenever appropriate. Apparently My Friend mistook my post as entirely in response of him.

I fully understand how Intelligent and Righteous that Person is. It is this very thing that made me depressed reading his posts. One can say it is an injustice that his thoughts were not represented by actual actions, even though I personally do not share his standings.

[Rancid]

The best way for the US to meet the Chinese threat is through alliances, not more ships.

This x1000000.

[Patrickov]

I prefer that the US maintain its very powerful military. I fear an arms race with China has already begun. The best way for the US to meet the Chinese threat is through alliances, not more ships. Yet, our current administration is destroying our tried and true alliances through arrogance and economic shenanigans.

Slightly pessimistic IMHO.

Allies are formed not just out of pull factor but also push factor. China willingly takes up the role of Pariah, so most other Free countries have teamed up with each other. It is not entirely necessary for the United States to lead, and we are actually glad that there is someone like Trump who has taken up the dirty job. It will be awkward to make other countries to be the necessary confronter.

[Drlee]

@Patrickov It is not entirely necessary for the United States to lead, and we are actually glad that there is someone like Trump who has taken up the dirty job.

I am not saying that China does not have much for which to answer. Its unfair trade practices should be addressed. But they cannot be addressed by the US alone. We are China's biggest market no doubt. Our tariffs are hurting both of us. What is hurting more is Trump's bombast that is creating the notion in the US that China is inevitably another USSR. I do not believe it is.

I believe that dialing down the rhetoric and creating real, on paper, agreements to address our differences is ideal. Forming an alliance with the EU and together, calmly, pushing China on the trade issues, decoupled from political issues, is the answer. Think of it this way.

If you went back to 1960 it would have been impossible for any country to construct a trade economy without engaging the US and playing by some of the US's rules. This is true of China today. Anyone who wants to export anywhere must do it in the shadow of both the US and China. In that regard it is in both of our interest to have a cordial trade environment rather than a confrontational one.

Trump is using his trade program to make his usual bombastic political points in the US and is excluding other big traders, particularly the EU, which is the world's largest economy. (At least until the UK can figure out what to do.) Japan has figured out how to live in a China world. Perhaps we could learn something from them.

As sympathetic as I am to the issues in Hong Kong it is just a distraction for us. It is a Chinese internal matter. Chinese human rights issues likewise. We cannot even think of engaging China on any of these until we get rid of the elephant in the room....trade issues.

[Patrickov]

I am not saying that China does not have much for which to answer. Its unfair trade practices should be addressed. But they cannot be addressed by the US alone. We are China's biggest market no doubt. Our tariffs are hurting both of us. What is hurting more is Trump's bombast that is creating the notion in the US that China is inevitably another USSR. I do not believe it is.

I believe that dialing down the rhetoric and creating real, on paper, agreements to address our differences is ideal. Forming an alliance with the EU and together, calmly, pushing China on the trade issues, decoupled from political issues, is the answer. Think of it this way.

If you went back to 1960 it would have been impossible for any country to construct a trade economy without engaging the US and playing by some of the US's rules. This is true of China today. Anyone who wants to export anywhere must do it in the shadow of both the US and China. In that regard it is in both of our interest to have a cordial trade environment rather than a confrontational one.

Maybe My Friend could search up "Confucius Institute" and see how other countries see China as some kind of an ideological threat. My use of the term "pariah" mainly revolves around how China wants to replace the current game rule (which is legitimate to many, and I do not particularly oppose) with their own (which I do).

Trump is using his trade program to make his usual bombastic political points in the US and is excluding other big traders, particularly the EU, which is the world's largest economy. (At least until the UK can figure out what to do.) Japan has figured out how to live in a China world. Perhaps we could learn something from them.

I am indeed quite astonished by the ability of Japan to adopt to a possible Chinese-dominant world, given how hostile the two countries' people are against each other in the previous century. Maybe the real reason is that Japan is itself a pretty closed-off oligarchy -- Shinzo Abe is from a prominent politician family not too different from the Kennedys or even the NK Kims.

Funnily, had the society of China reached a similar state I would still have lived there instead. I actually do not mind oligarchies as long as they don't mess with dissidents or criticism.

As sympathetic as I am to the issues in Hong Kong it is just a distraction for us. It is a Chinese internal matter. Chinese human rights issues likewise. We cannot even think of engaging China on any of these until we get rid of the elephant in the room....trade issues.

Don't worry, I am not that obsessive. I am not exactly in the same ideology as them after all. I am only pissed off when someone try to smear or even attack them, like a certain Leftist Member constantly do here.

[Big Steve-2]

I think all countries should be able to have a military if they want one and feel it's in their best interests.

I disagree with compulsory service, though.