[annatar1914]

@blackjack21 , let's go forwards on our discussion regarding Sanders and the future, if any, of the Democratic Party. You said;

The OP admonishes to express what you think will happen, not what you want to happen.

Sure, and that's what I think is what will happen. If he gets any ideas otherwise, he'll be ''Arkancided''. As it is I still think that a scenario where Hillary Clinton comes into the race is not beyond the realm of possibility, at all.

I'm frankly uncertain as I was in 2016. However, I am certain that the populace hates the establishment right now.

They should hate them, because the establishment hates everything most people have stood for or believed in for the past 5000 years or so, believing that this new Information Age also means a new way of ethics and a re-definition of what it means to be human itself.

Sanders is leading by 6 points in California right now. That's a lot of delegates. Iowa, NH, South Carolina are a momentum story. If Sanders wins California, that spells big problems for Biden.

Bobby Kennedy won the California primary too.

Well, running on things like free healthcare for illegal aliens is just going to drive even more working class people to Trump. I never thought I'd live to see them do something like that after losing to Trump in 2016. They are just determined not to learn the lesson of 2016.

Well, I believe in healthcare for all working people and much else besides, being a Socialist, but not for Illegals, as they are practically class enemies of the Proletariat. What causes even people like me to turn to President Trump is the loathsome identity politics of Liberalism, and Welfare-ism. I'm what would be considered a social conservative because of my religion and spirituality, but my politico-economic thoughts are pretty Marxist. The Democratic Party deserves to be destroyed for pandering to freaks and degenerates and lazy drones, so that a REAL Left can arise that represents working people and their concerns.

[blackjack21]

Tru and I'll add, the difference is the Republicans are too scared to pull a label off a mattress while the Democrats already rigged an election against Bernie so I'm just going with their history and disdain for the man.

Not to get off topic, but that was one of the funniest arguments with this impeachment thing. The Democrats argue that investigating a political opponent is a big no no, and the Republicans come back in excruciating detail with Hillary, the dossier, Fusion GPS, Christopher Steele, their Russian info, the FBI, and the FISA court, and the Democrats plod along like that's just totally normal. It's completely unreal. So yes, I could see them doing something shady to undermine Sanders. A political party, after all, is just a corporation. So just like the arguments with YouTube and censorship, technically they could do whatever the hell they want. The whole point of the primary system was to get rid of the so-called "smoke filled rooms" of the past.

I'm thinking how is possible for Sanders to win without the full backing of the establishment and DNC.

The general election? Or the primary? He just needs to get a majority. Keep in mind, he's ahead right now and Super Tuesday is only 5 weeks away.

Hearing rumors that Obama really wants to speak out against Sanders, so I'm not sure what dynamics have changed except the weakness of the current field of alternatives.

Yeah, I've heard that too. What are the alternatives though? He hasn't endorsed Biden, which he could have done some time ago.

Also can Bernie even fund a campaign?

I think with grass roots support, money is overrated. Bloomberg has the most money of anyone, and he's in single digits.

Bobby Kennedy won the California primary too.

He he he. Yes. That's a wildcard scenario. I'm not saying it won't happen, but the probability is against it. If they did something like that though, they'd have an evangelical Christian do it because Sanders is a Jew and blame it all on Trump's hate speech in spite of the fact that Trump is about the most Jewish friendly president we've ever had.

The Democratic Party deserves to be destroyed for pandering to freaks and degenerates and lazy drones, so that a REAL Left can arise that represents working people and their concerns.

On that point, we are in complete agreement. I never thought in my life that they would become so bizarre.

[Finfinder]

Not to get off topic, but that was one of the funniest arguments with this impeachment thing. The Democrats argue that investigating a political opponent is a big no no, and the Republicans come back in excruciating detail with Hillary, the dossier, Fusion GPS, Christopher Steele, their Russian info, the FBI, and the FISA court, and the Democrats plod along like that's just totally normal. It's completely unreal. So yes, I could see them doing something shady to undermine Sanders. A political party, after all, is just a corporation. So just like the arguments with YouTube and censorship, technically they could do whatever the hell they want. The whole point of the primary system was to get rid of the so-called "smoke filled rooms" of the past.

The general election? Or the primary? He just needs to get a majority. Keep in mind, he's ahead right now and Super Tuesday is only 5 weeks away.


Yeah, I've heard that too. What are the alternatives though? He hasn't endorsed Biden, which he could have done some time ago.

Its definelty Seinfelds bizarro world.

I say both........Keep in mind didn't Hillary supposedly win Iowa on a coin flip wink? I posted this link on another thread, I don't think Iowa is set well for Bernie and the establishment. My understanding is if your candidate doesn't make it to the 15 % then you throw you vote to another candidate. I'm not so sure Sanders being so polarizing is as interchangeable as Bootyjudge, and Biden. If you support Klobuchar are you giving your vote to Sanders? More likely Biden.

https://www.politico.com/interactives/2 ... they-work/

[annatar1914]

@blackjack21 , regarding my perverse sense of humor;

He he he. Yes. That's a wildcard scenario. I'm not saying it won't happen, but the probability is against it. If they did something like that though, they'd have an evangelical Christian do it because Sanders is a Jew and blame it all on Trump's hate speech in spite of the fact that Trump is about the most Jewish friendly president we've ever had.

Just a reminder that politicians run until they don't.

On that point, we are in complete agreement. I never thought in my life that they would become so bizarre.

Oh, we've seen nothing yet when it comes to ''bizarre''. There's going to be scenes in this movie we're watching that will be so insane, people will think they've been dropping acid again. And there will be blood.

[Donna]

Bernie Sanders now has a 7 point lead on Biden in the polls. This could be it, the year the Democrats nominate a SOCIAL DEMOCRAT. What exactly was this party trying to do since the '80s?

[Big Steve-1]

Trying to find a Democratic candidate who's worth a damn is a lot like trying to find a tootsie roll in a septic tank.

[colliric]

Bernie Sanders now has a 7 point lead on Biden in the polls. This could be it, the year the Democrats nominate a SOCIAL DEMOCRAT. What exactly was this party trying to do since the '80s?

Turn neo-lib.

I'm glad they're finally waking up and smelling the roses. Being a fake "Left-wing party" only gets you so far.

Two Party systems work best with parties that are polar opposites.

[Tainari88]

I think Bernie has the momentum but Biden will either clinch the DNC nomination or some other hack will be doing the asskissing for corporate Dems.

If they do accept Biden? The conman will be the winner.

[Big Steve-1]

I think Bernie has the momentum but Biden will either clinch the DNC nomination or some other hack will be doing the asskissing for corporate Dems.

If they do accept Biden? The conman will be the winner.

At this point, the Democrats have no one who can beat Trump.

[colliric]

At this point, the Democrats have no one who can beat Trump.

I agree. But Bernie Sanders with Tulsi Gabbard(go out on a limb and help her raise her profile for the 2024 contest) or Amy Klobuchar(play it safe) as his VP is their best shot though.

And they have to give it their best shot.

[Drlee]

I

agree. But Bernie Sanders with Tulsi Gabbard(go out on a limb and help her raise her profile for the 2024 contest) or Amy Klobuchar(play it safe) as his VP is their best shot though.

And they have to give it their best shot

They should think down-ticket races. They have a minor shot at the Senate and to increase gains in the house. Or at the very least hold what they have.

Bernie is a wild card. If he can get out the youth vote and energize women he could be as big a surprise as Trump was.

[Groom]

Probably, the DNC already decided on the primary map, what states Bernie will win.

Just so Bernie and his voters won't feel totally robbed, they will make sure he will be somewhat close with the actual winner (be it Biden/Pete/Bloomberg). This is what Erdogan in Turkey did, just close enough so people don't complain (US using the same tactics).

There are lots of indications for this in Iowa: "voting" App (Shadow inc.), that is mostly designed to be used for younger generation (favors Sanders), seems actually a way to rob those whom used the app: Make sure the votes don't count (blame technical/coding issues).

They knew the phone lines as backup wouldn't work, people would be discouraged by waiting on the line and where they were (eventually) hung up.

Pete, Obama, Hillary, DNC, etc. being involved in the app doesn't encourage confidence, but a spider sense, saying there are at least conflict of interest and if not rigging/corruption.

Bloomberg having two staff from DNC's rules committee (simultaneous position). They can just make up any rules favoring their candidate... And their priority number one opponent is Sanders, everything to keep the oligarchy/plutocracy.

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What happens when Sanders finds out the DNC actively works against him, now harder than 2016 (this time, they have "unlimited" money backing them up and are buying votes rather than earning them)? Will Sanders create his own party: "Social democratic party" (SDP)?

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Even if Sanders wins the "Democratic" (ironic name, considering how they actively change rules/tactics to benefit their own candidate) nomination or goes as third party: If the US election is rigged against Bernie, what will the USA do about it?

Let's say there are (undeniable) evidence of this, will Bernie lose the case, in the same way as Democrats lost in the impeachment proceedings? Will they do nothing about it, just as after the verdict from the impeachment?

Are the American people complacent with whatever the outcome, that they don't care about the direction the nation is moving? They just sit at home (with their sugar and entertainment while others suffer), and waiting for the storm to ride out?

Is that the point where USA has fallen into the category of "Idiocracy", and the elections are just fake (a feeling for the people they are choosing)? But in reality, the ultimate rulers are oligarchs/plutocrats and they (due to corruption) create/succumb to a dynasty/dictatorship.

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And now with the confidence after being acquitted in the impeachment proceedings, D.T. (republicans giving him free rein) will most surely get rid of all evidence against him (for future retaliation against him), anything that can put him in trial, etc.

He's already done the soft version: "Erasing History: The National Archives is Destroying Records About Victims of Trump’s ICE Policies"

[quetzalcoatl]

I think Sanders will steal the nomination. Warren would have been a nice choice in previous cycles, but having Trump run against another woman candidate would feel too much like 2016 again and it would distract the election from kitchen table issues. Sanders is the only candidate capable of exposing Trump's neocon fraud to the working class.

The remnants of the Third Way/New Democrats (AKA DNC) haven't so far been able to settle on one alternative to Sanders. Their problem is they have no belief system to back them up - only a necessity to preserve their privileged position within the existing system. (This is ominously close to the Soviet apparatchiks who basically just gave up and stood by as the system collapsed.) As a consequence, they are left trying to game out who could possibly win, but with no theory of change to back it up.

They've rotated through Biden, Beto, Warren, and Harris and fallen flat on their faces. Their picks only keep getting worse. The latest desperate challenger is Buttigieg, who is a comical villain from a children's TV show (eg, 'Schemer' from Shining Time Station or 'Swiper' from Dora). Their last hope will probably be Bloomberg. This is actually the most appropriate choice: he's a billionaire and a former republican mayor.

[annatar1914]

Again, I still don't think that anything has changed much from my previous opinion;

1. Biden will be the DNC nominee to run for President in the general election, designated to lose to President Trump. If for some medical or other kind of implosion he drops out, some other stand in will get the nomination. It means nothing.

2. Sanders is the fake ''Radical'' who is anything but, who serves by his talk to make the other candidates look more ''Center'' as they try to reach for the moderates and independents in the general election. He might be what the younger people and the more ideologically committed may want as a nominee among white liberals, but that's irrelevant.

3. This election has already been called, and it got called for Trump the day he made his SOTU.

[Donna]

That seems a bit too conspiratorial, @annatar1914. In my experience political skullduggery is real, but highly adaptive. Elections are rigged, yes, but I don't think entire ensemble casts are used to stage complex narratives. A lot of it is really like House of Cards, with a whole lot of schmoozing and backstabbing by individual opportunists who got really far by fighting for the status quo.

[Drlee]

I think the democrats realize that it is best to make Trump take the hit when the overheated stock market takes a dive. There is an unusual influx of liquidity into the markets now and they are set for a big dive. Correction is to weak a word.

So the dems will try for the Senate, sort of, and content themselves with the house from which they can put the kibosh on Trumps more outlandish escapades.

Weird prediction. Trump will resign a year from finishing his second term so that Pence can pardon him. He will cite health.

[annatar1914]

That seems a bit too conspiratorial, @annatar1914. In my experience political skullduggery is real, but highly adaptive. Elections are rigged, yes, but I don't think entire ensemble casts are used to stage complex narratives. A lot of it is really like House of Cards, with a whole lot of schmoozing and backstabbing by individual opportunists who got really far by fighting for the status quo.

I dig what you're saying, but my gut tells me incredible, even world-historical, things are happening soon.

Last time I had that feeling, was when I saw as soon as Bush was elected in 2000, that we'd be at war within a year after something terrible happened somewhere, I just knew.

[blackjack21]

Last time I had that feeling, was when I saw as soon as Bush was elected in 2000, that we'd be at war within a year after something terrible happened somewhere, I just knew.

Yeah. I had that sense too. Everytime you see certain generals like Mattis heading to the White House, you kind of know a can of whoop ass is about to get opened.

Probably, the DNC already decided on the primary map, what states Bernie will win.

Just so Bernie and his voters won't feel totally robbed, they will make sure he will be somewhat close with the actual winner (be it Biden/Pete/Bloomberg). This is what Erdogan in Turkey did, just close enough so people don't complain (US using the same tactics).

Pete Booty Judge is a Goldman Sachs guy, so it wouldn't surprise me if they pick him. I think the "real" winner is Sanders, as he has the most enthusiastic crowds.

Pete, Obama, Hillary, DNC, etc. being involved in the app doesn't encourage confidence, but a spider sense, saying there are at least conflict of interest and if not rigging/corruption.

Right, but these are caucuses. They are not primaries certified by the Secretary of State. So there is no crime involved in rigging a caucus.

What happens when Sanders finds out the DNC actively works against him, now harder than 2016 (this time, they have "unlimited" money backing them up and are buying votes rather than earning them)? Will Sanders create his own party: "Social democratic party" (SDP)?

He sold out cheap last time. I'm not sure this time would be different. Maybe Bloomberg will offer him $100M to drop out of the race.

1. Biden will be the DNC nominee to run for President in the general election, designated to lose to President Trump. If for some medical or other kind of implosion he drops out, some other stand in will get the nomination. It means nothing.

He's running on fumes right now. We'll know in a few weeks. If he loses California, I think it's basically over for him.

3. This election has already been called, and it got called for Trump the day he made his SOTU.

I think it was earlier than that. It's fascinating that their politics of personal destruction doesn't work against Trump.

[Hindsite]

I hate to say it, but I think it will be crazy Bernie.

[late]

I hate to say it, but I think it will be crazy Bernie.

If irony was explosive, you would have just destroyed wherever it is you live.