[Tainari88]

The thing with all of these men vs women sort of arguments that happen here is that I always feel like most of that shit doesn't apply to me. We have a system/rules we both agree to and it works for us. Some of the rules/things we agree to are old school, but whatever, it works for us. Yes, you are right, she could easily get a very good job and go if she wishes. I'd guilt trip the shit out of her for abandoning her kids though. She old school Chinese though, if she hated me, she wouldn't leave me cause of the kids. Frankly, I'm the same way, even if I hated her, I wouldn't leave her cause of the kids. We'd both grind that shit out. White knuckle that shit all the way through.

All of that said, I still maintain that men are more romantic than women. I think I've stated this example before:

I have this shed in my back yard. It's basically a pier and beam setup. The shed started to sink into the ground. My wife and I spent about 2 hours jacking up the shed and re-leveling the ground. I remember telling her "This is romantic! Working on our home together, like a real team!" then I kissed her. She was like "Wha? huh? this is just a stupid chore". I don't give a fuck what anyone say's, working on the home you are raising your kids in with your spouse is cute and romantic. Fuck all of you if you don't agree.

Fuck you all :cries:

You don't strike me as Mr. Romantico at all. You probably pester her all day with--Don't open the door if they look political or religious nut types. I am not stuck with tutoring our daughter on virtual school. Open up the schools and let those youngsters run wild.

No @Rancid you met your wife as a teen in school. Old school long story of AMOR. I met my husband at age 16. He pursued me as only a man with a goal on his mind....I was young and not into marriage. He was into marriage. He convinced me.


I think all that romantic stuff is really up to the couple.

You stated that your father in law is a guy who doesn't communicate much and is unemotional. She is uncomfortable with that. You are more open about it. Part of your appeal for her I would take a wild guess. Open and emotionally sweet. A great thing. But you have to realize she might be less open due to her family dynamic.

Me? I got a family that liked him a lot from day one. He was my father's friend before I even met him. They had mutual interests together.

I think one is lucky if you even find love in this world. So many people wind up alone and without real connection. That is what everyone wants.

You are easy to love Rancid. At least for me? El Gran Cagon. Te quiero...cagoncito.

[Beren]

The man asks the woman if she wants to marry him.

Sure, that's a vital part indeed.

[Tainari88]

I'm sure you always want to be in charge of anything around you, I just don't happen to be around you fortunately.

No, my theory about you is that you see a woman in here and you think of all those domineering women who made you miserable and you think every woman is that woman.

Get over it dude. I don't give a damn about your opinions Beren. I don't do a damn thing to you and you got to go and say something disagreeable. You got a problem. Go and hash it out with your woman issues with someone else.

[Julian658]

@Tainari88 makes many good points. Women try harder than mean to earn respect and status in the workplace and in the world. Women do get less pay. Many women are scheming bitches because if they are not, men will disrespect them and belittle them. I feel belittled at my job. They see me as the little cutie with the good manners. I want to be a professional so I am studying hard and learning how to be stronger. I am more than my looks.

And regarding childbirthing, I do not want children. I like kids but I do not want to raise any if it means I will do much of the work. I want a kid IF I am with a man who will help me out with the child rearing. If he does not want to handle diapers or educate them, then I do not want him or the kid. I have a hard enough time as it is fending for myself in this cold, harsh world.

I know some women who have kids past the age of 30. The kids turn out fine. The women are healthy and happy. Age is just one factor.

If I end up single for years, then I am fine with that. I do not want to settle. I believe there is a man out there for me. I just am not ready to meet him. I have lots of work to do. I need to be able to support myself no matter what. I want to be self reliant.

Men and women are nearly equal. However, the mild sexual dimorphism favored the hegemony of men. Up until 1960 the women were saddled with multiple pregnancies due to the absence of good contraception. Many women were pregnant many times during their youth and simply could not do much other than take care of the children. Try having a career while taking care of 8-9 kids at home.

Pregnancy, motherhood, and sexual dimorphism led to the so-called patriarchy. However, it was not a bed of roses for men. Before feminism men were expected to provide for the female. Men were also saddled with dangerous work, going to war, and working on a daily basis to maintain the home. Throughout most of history men and women have suffered equally. Those on top were mostly men, but they only represented a very tiny fraction of the population. Contraception changed all that. Once women did not have to be pregnant for 9 months and take care of children they advanced very quickly. However, they had to sacrifice having a family.

BTW, the salary gap between men and women in Western nations is due to motherhood and choosing low paying careers on purpose to spend more time at home. There is very little pay gap for childless never married women.

[Beren]

I don't give a damn about your opinions Beren.

Sure, you just take them personal and "disagree" with them.

[Tainari88]

I'm sure you always want to be in charge of anything around you, I just don't happen to be around you fortunately.

Yes, I am that woman in your head that tries to tell you what to do? Meanwhile men who know me well in this forum for a very long time...and that is NOT YOU....will disagree.

Who do I pay attention to? The stranger in Hungary with women issues that he has confessed to on this thread about his controlling sister and his mom and so on....going on about the women...and how he is over their ways and how does he demonstrate this? By always making snide remarks about the woman he thinks is overbearing.

I respect Rancid's opinion about me. I don't respect yours Beren. I really don't. You are a stranger.

[Beren]

Yes, I am that woman in your head that tries to tell you what to do?

I don't have any personal opinion about you because the only thing I definitely know about you is that you're a woman too, however, you just can't surprise me and you prove all my stereotypes valid with each post you make. And it's not just my mom and sister, they're just family members I have to deal with personally, I wouldn't draw general conclusions from them only. As to Rancid, I started with agreeing with him, actually.

[Beren]

Sometimes I wonder if I should just skip out on my family. You know, say that I'm going out for cigarettes and then just never come back home...

Really?

[Rich]

It was almost like I was born with progressive attitudes towards women. I certainly held radical Liberal views from a very young age. My parents were Christian so I had to go to Church and was introduced to the extreme patriarchy of the Old Testament. I accepted the existence of this God, because I was just a kid, it would take many years to uncover the full depth of the filthy lies of the Jews, Christians, Muslims and Mormons. But you know what the funny thing was, I can't ever remember a single moment when I doubted that my own views, I can't ever remember a single moment when I thought that God might be right. I didn't have the terminology when I was a child /adolescent, but Christopher Hitchen's " Celestial North Korea" was exactly how I understood Christian / Abrahamic cosmology.

During the late 80s and through the nineties I was very aware of radical feminism. I didn't hang out with radical feminists, and for obvious reasons I didn't hang out with Lesbian separatists but I knew people who interacted with them. I was aware of the whole Greenham common thing, I had a friend in cruise watch for example. And in the nineties I knew a lot of people men and women into Goddess worship and who got carried away with the whole sacred feminine thing. Its not quite the same as the political feminism thing but its obviously related.

In the late nineties I stopped believing in feminism. I came to realise that it was a great big nothing. I realised that my competitors were other men and only other men. Feminism is most certainly a very major force in the world, but it is nothing, absolutely nothing for itself and can only serve to advance the interests of one set of men against another group of men. Look at those women from the Swedish government (or was it Norway, anyway who cares you know who I mean) trailing of off to Iran with their head scarves its absolutely pathetic. Feminism always ends up serving the interests of dominant, domineering manipulative men, many of which are even violent and rapists. It doesn't matter whether its sixties rock stars, spiritual gurus, far leftist party leaders, conservative politicians, liberal politicians, evangelical mega church leaders, Muslim rapeugees, Harvey Weinstein or Brian Epstein (or do I mean Jeffery, never mind it was one of those Epsteins).

The Song remains the same. You look at it, every political struggle feminism collapses. Cuba, The Northern Ireland Republican movement. The Soviet Union. Where were the feminists? where was the women power? Or women's suffrage, what a massive, massive non event that was. Or take the Nazis a phenomena that still seems to loom large in people's consciousness. The Nazis, or at least Hitler certainly had a bit of a patriarchal bent, as our Cultural Marxist lamestream media likes to remind us, but what never gets mentioned is that women had the vote in Weimar Germany, where as in the country that had the big army that stood up to Hitler, France they didn't.After France fell, there was one island of democracy remaining in continental Europe, Switzerland where women didn't have the vote either.

Feminism is so pathetic, that they can't even summon the courage to criticise a so called Black Man, when he sings about raping women. The trouble is a lot of racially European men and increasingly quite a number of racially Asian Infidel men become very angry with feminists and racially European feminist women in particular. This is certainly leading to misogyny. The key is to recognise western feminism for the giant shit test that it is.

[Igor Antunov]

The Song remains the same. You look at it, every political struggle feminism collapses. Cuba, The Northern Ireland Republican movement. The Soviet Union. Where were the feminists? where was the women power? Or women's suffrage, what a massive, massive non event that was. Or take the Nazis a phenomena that still seems to loom large in people's consciousness. The Nazis, or at least Hitler certainly had a bit of a patriarchal bent, as our Cultural Marxist lamestream media likes to remind us, but what never gets mentioned is that women had the vote in Weimar Germany, where as in the country that had the big army that stood up to Hitler, France they didn't.After France fell, there was one island of democracy remaining in continental Europe, Switzerland where women didn't have the vote either.

Feminism is so pathetic, that they can't even summon the courage to criticise a so called Black Man, when he sings about raping women. The trouble is a lot of racially European men and increasingly quite a number of racially Asian Infidel men become very angry with feminists and racially European feminist women in particular. This is certainly leading to misogyny. The key is to recognise western feminism for the giant shit test that it is.

It took you this many words to sum up a fairly basic concept and one proven time and again; most women are natural born followers. They are ill suited to building society and maintaining it outside of the small family unit. If I were to take away most of your testosterone and throw in a huge quantity of estrogen you too would become a pushover outside of your secure household.

[Rancid]

You don't strike me as Mr. Romantico at all.

You got me, maybe I'm really the problem.

See how good women are at twisting shit back at men?

Really?

Nah, :lol

[Julian658]

It was almost like I was born with progressive attitudes towards women. I certainly held radical Liberal views from a very young age. My parents were Christian so I had to go to Church and was introduced to the extreme patriarchy of the Old Testament. I accepted the existence of this God, because I was just a kid, it would take many years to uncover the full depth of the filthy lies of the Jews, Christians, Muslims and Mormons. But you know what the funny thing was, I can't ever remember a single moment when I doubted that my own views, I can't ever remember a single moment when I thought that God might be right. I didn't have the terminology when I was a child /adolescent, but Christopher Hitchen's " Celestial North Korea" was exactly how I understood Christian / Abrahamic cosmology.

During the late 80s and through the nineties I was very aware of radical feminism. I didn't hang out with radical feminists, and for obvious reasons I didn't hang out with Lesbian separatists but I knew people who interacted with them. I was aware of the whole Greenham common thing, I had a friend in cruise watch for example. And in the nineties I knew a lot of people men and women into Goddess worship and who got carried away with the whole sacred feminine thing. Its not quite the same as the political feminism thing but its obviously related.

In the late nineties I stopped believing in feminism. I came to realise that it was a great big nothing. I realised that my competitors were other men and only other men. Feminism is most certainly a very major force in the world, but it is nothing, absolutely nothing for itself and can only serve to advance the interests of one set of men against another group of men. Look at those women from the Swedish government (or was it Norway, anyway who cares you know who I mean) trailing of off to Iran with their head scarves its absolutely pathetic. Feminism always ends up serving the interests of dominant, domineering manipulative men, many of which are even violent and rapists. It doesn't matter whether its sixties rock stars, spiritual gurus, far leftist party leaders, conservative politicians, liberal politicians, evangelical mega church leaders, Muslim rapeugees, Harvey Weinstein or Brian Epstein (or do I mean Jeffery, never mind it was one of those Epsteins).

The Song remains the same. You look at it, every political struggle feminism collapses. Cuba, The Northern Ireland Republican movement. The Soviet Union. Where were the feminists? where was the women power? Or women's suffrage, what a massive, massive non event that was. Or take the Nazis a phenomena that still seems to loom large in people's consciousness. The Nazis, or at least Hitler certainly had a bit of a patriarchal bent, as our Cultural Marxist lamestream media likes to remind us, but what never gets mentioned is that women had the vote in Weimar Germany, where as in the country that had the big army that stood up to Hitler, France they didn't.After France fell, there was one island of democracy remaining in continental Europe, Switzerland where women didn't have the vote either.

Feminism is so pathetic, that they can't even summon the courage to criticise a so called Black Man, when he sings about raping women. The trouble is a lot of racially European men and increasingly quite a number of racially Asian Infidel men become very angry with feminists and racially European feminist women in particular. This is certainly leading to misogyny. The key is to recognise western feminism for the giant shit test that it is.

Feminism sees Muslim men as oppressed people that need protection. That Islamic types treat women like shyte or that they do not tolerate LGBTQIA+ types is beside the point.

[Rancid]

The National Organization of Men Against Amazonian Masterhood, or No MA'AM

[Rancid]

Feminism sees Muslim men as oppressed people that need protection. That Islamic types treat women like shyte or that they do not tolerate LGBTQIA+ types is beside the point.

One fundamental disconnects with a lot of leftist that I do enjoy is the conflict that arises when you believe all cultures are equal and should be respected, but then some of these cultures will support and condone horrible things like child marriage.

Oh oh!

Do you respect the culture and not criticize or ask it to change, or do you condemn it and thus invalidate your own ideological position?

[Unthinking Majority]

One fundamental disconnects with a lot of leftist that I do enjoy is the conflict that arises when you believe all cultures are equal and should be respected, but then some of these cultures will support and condone horrible things like child marriage.

Oh oh!

Do you respect the culture and not criticize or ask it to change, or do you condemn it and thus invalidate your own ideological position?

Cognitive dissonance.

[Wellsy]

One fundamental disconnects with a lot of leftist that I do enjoy is the conflict that arises when you believe all cultures are equal and should be respected, but then some of these cultures will support and condone horrible things like child marriage.

Oh oh!

Do you respect the culture and not criticize or ask it to change, or do you condemn it and thus invalidate your own ideological position?

Think this can partly be the case with liberal multiculturalists but at the same time there is a sketpcism in the way it is used and thought of in a crude way to pretty much make palpable interventions based on the idea of save the women.
https://www.politicsforum.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=164968
So there is wariness of those that are suddenly “feminist” when it comes to criticizing countries other than their own and implicitly propping up their own as superior when such individuals are sometimes closer in their attitudes to women at times but opportunistically engage in oh think of the women rhetoric for legitimacy of political ends.

So for example, getting away from whether say a Muslim man raped some woman or not, the fixation on Muslims raping women suggests certain beliefs about the rape that are problematic.
In the same way that blacks looting after hurricane Katrina was true but the way it was used to justify racist beliefs that are false. They focus in on things to prop up bullshit

Though anyone who strictly adheres to multiculturalism often has retarded views of culture.

[Rancid]

Cognitive dissonance.

Cognitive dissonance all by itself isn't a bad thing. So long as you are actually thinking through things often.

I was thinking more about the strict multiculturalists that @Wellsy mentioned. By the way Wellsy, I don't have the time to read through that link. sorry man.

[Wellsy]

Cognitive dissonance all by itself isn't a bad thing. So long as you are actually thinking through things often.

I was thinking more about the strict multiculturalists that @Wellsy mentioned. By the way Wellsy, I don't have the time to read through that link. sorry man.

Don’t apologize. Its just more elaborate explanation of some of the characteristics of rhetoric that opportunistically uses seemingly feminism ideas.

[Pants-of-dog]

One fundamental disconnects with a lot of leftist that I do enjoy is the conflict that arises when you believe all cultures are equal and should be respected, but then some of these cultures will support and condone horrible things like child marriage.

Oh oh!

Do you respect the culture and not criticize or ask it to change, or do you condemn it and thus invalidate your own ideological position?

The way I see cultural relativism is as follows:

Not all cultures are equal. This is true in a basic, factual sense. They are all different. And we can definitely judge them according to whatever criteria we want. For example, Chilean culture is more classist than Canadian culture.

So if we wanted to desperately believe in cultural equality, we would have to (as you say) pretend that a culture with problems is just as intrinsically worthy as one without problems. This may be true in some spiritual sense, but not in any practical way.

So I do not see cultural relativism as thinking all are equal. Instead, it is about how we judge and compare cultures. Using my example of classist Chilean culture, I judge this classism to be a problem because I have lived in Canada and seen how cultures can work without said classism. And here is the important point: I am judging one culture according to the culture I live in.

To me, cultural relativism is simply the acknowledgment that we judge other cultures by how they compare to our own. And this is why we always think ours is better. That seems the only way that all cultures are actually equal.

[Beren]

You got me, maybe I'm really the problem.

You are the problem by definition.

However, it's easy to decide if you're romantic or not. Would you be ready or willing to sacrifice yourself for the female you're in love with? Because that's how romantic men are supposed to be. It's part of the deal, you know.