Which country do you consider the greatest long term threats to your PERSONAL way of life? - Page 7 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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Polls on politics, news, current affairs and history.

Which country do you consider the greatest long term threats to your PERSONAL way of life?

USA
21
46%
Russia
3
7%
China
17
37%
EU
1
2%
Iran
1
2%
Lybia/Syria
No votes
0%
SA
No votes
0%
NK
No votes
0%
UK
2
4%
Other Country
1
2%
#15164486
Tainari88 wrote:So is any nation that doesn't have Chile's history. So is any nation who doesn't have any ethics and applies force and terror to gain ground, money and influence.


I know plenty of nations that don't have Chile's history and are worse places to live than it is. Like Mexico, for instance, even if it's fun.

Tainari88 wrote:So is any nation who drops a couple of A bombs on civilians. If you believe that is SUPERIORITY? I don't agree.


That's not why the US is a better country to live in than Chile :roll:

Tainari88 wrote:You will never be about ETHICAL POLITICS. Just about wanting to be part of a powerful nation and climb for some money and position.

An asskissing position. One I will never respect. And pathetic in the extreme.

This is what everyone on the left should be aiming for. You are not on the left Wat0n. You are also blind and not very intelligent about your loyalties. Chile will lose in $$$ and military. But is that all your Chilean identity means to you? A banana peel that you peel and discard because the true loyalty is the $$$$? Think about that your thoughts are beyond repulsive.

https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunde ... pdf#page90


No one's kissing the US' ass. But I'm not blind, and unlike you I can compare how life has been in both. Both from personal experience and also seeing how those that earn less than I've managed to do live.

I would also say you'd be more than happy to do plenty of ass kissing to get the US to leave Puerto Rico. I can infer that because you have no problem doing asskissing of your own when speaking to those countries that are currently competing with the US.

And as for identity, you can be proud of your own while at the same time appreciating other societies. Implying the opposite's just a stupid idea, ironically the sort of stupid idea you can see among e.g. hardcore Trump supporters. Populists tend to think alike, after all.
#15164487
wat0n wrote:@Tainari88 what a pathetic excuse for standing for totalitarianism :lol:

Fortunately, I can compare the US with Chile. The US is better overall. Not perfect, but clearly better.


No you foolish thought man--I am not a totalitarian. If you had been paying attention to the video? You would realize how erroneous your bullshit accusations toward me are. It is possible and very common to be a socialist and be anti-totalitarian and anti-authoritarian regimes. Do you understand? I doubt it. WRONG. You are wrong dude. I am and have never been authoritarian or totalitarian. You assume (like you assumed I said that Isabel Allende was Salvador Allende's daughter when I NEVER SAID IT). You make up lies Wat0n about what I believe.

Just ask the question and don't assume. I can't stand the lies you come up with all the time. You distort and you get flustered. You lie a lot about what I think. I don't approve. Tell the damn truth for once.

You sound like a young man who doesn't go beyond what he is told like a parrot. It sounds terrible. You are a bright kid. Shine up your debating skills. Don't spout a bunch of assumptions.

No one who knows me even hard core right wing people I debate will believe the crap. They already have more information on me than you do. You did not know a damn thing about Puerto Rican problems. Because? That history is not talked about Wat0n. Instead of being a bit analytical and bring it up to discuss it...you fall on a defensive position and the USA is the greatest thing and it makes Chile look backward, and you need to be forward and you need to be this or that.

Es una pila de MIERDA. Try facts and theories that are objective Senor. Ave Maria.

Discuss with the American socialists responsible for Second Thought. Socialists were 6k now they are 60k and growing. It is almost young people under 35. Not old people Wat0n. Why is the socialist column becoming tremendously popular with young people in the USA not in Chile? This is his take on it:

Deal with what this video says as reasons for power for the USA? Can you? Or do you continue to lie on me like a foolish young man without some ethics?

#15164488
wat0n wrote:You could ask @Patrickov how is it to live under direct Chinese rule.

I find it interesting that you have to refer to events from 30+ years ago, and a dictator that has been dead for almost 15 years now to criticize the US in this regard.


In regards to our home, or any other country in Latin America, you have tomrefer to your imagination when it comes to Chinese rule.

But if you want to do that, then we can discuss what the alternative to the US was at the time and if anyone would sincerely prefer to live under it over living in the US. We can also discuss the behavior of the Soviets abroad, and how these countries where the USSR called the shots also had thousands dead and/or disappeared. We can also discuss how the police routinely raped women as a form of torture in those countries. We can discuss how children were imprisoned. We can discuss how thousands fled in exile, if they were lucky enough to (often, they would just be sent to a gulag. In some cases, along with their whole families). We can also discuss systemic racism, which seems to be in vogue now but only when it happens in NATO members. This was typical in almost all eastern European countries and beyond (like Cuba where, unlike the Southern Cone, this is still ongoing - and which you rubber-stamp under "anticolonialism").


Yes, I am familiar with the propaganda around Cuba.

And like Chinese involvement in Latin America, your Soviet involvement in Latin America leading to all these human rights abuses is also based on your imagination.

Facts trump imagination.
#15164490
Pants-of-dog wrote:In regards to our home, or any other country in Latin America, you have tomrefer to your imagination when it comes to Chinese rule.


Or you can just ask testimony from people who live under their rule. Again, we have posters who do.

Even @Fasces will not be willing to claim that dissenting from the positions of the Chinese State will not lead you to anything else but disaster. He has also acknowledged that China is fairly oppressive against those who don't toe to the line culturally, even if it's something that can be explained by its recent history. He's free to correct me if I'm wrong.

Also, as I mentioned earlier, the sort of US-backed regimes you are referring to have been gone for a while now...

Pants-of-dog wrote:Yes, I am familiar with the propaganda around Cuba.

And like Chinese involvement in Latin America, your Soviet involvement in Latin America leading to all these human rights abuses is also based on your imagination.

Facts trump imagination.


...While some of the regimes that were initially propped up by the USSR in the region are still alive and kicking, and others try to emulate them (but they are fairly shitty copies of the original at best, using these claims as means to just engage in corruption at worst).

Another thing I find ironic is that you prefer to call the allegations against Cuba propaganda. I recall the Southern Cone dictatorships would do the same at the time, and do would their supporters.

Of course, if you wish to believe some of the allegations against Cuba are propaganda then you couldn't blame those who believed the same about the allegations against Pinochet and similar other dictators at the time. But investigations carried out after the end of those dictatorships (but never during those dictatorships) managed to uncover both testimony and material evidence of at least some of the allegations, just as investigations carried after military conflicts help us have more reliable and better estimates of their human toll. One day, the same will happen in Cuba - in the meantime, using the same standards of proof used before 1990 when talking about the human rights situation in the Southern Cone, the only option is to take the allegations by Cuban exiles seriously just as those by Chilean exiles were from 1973 to 1990. It would only be fair to do so. You can start by listening to some who post here, why don't you let them comment on the human rights situation in Cuba?
#15164492
Pants-of-dog wrote:When the USA were calling the shots in Chile, thousands died and/or were disappeared. Police raped women as form of torture. Children were imprisoned. Thousands fled in exile. Et cetera. This story is typical for almost any country in Latin America.

This actually happened, and US society and politics has not significantly changed since then.

China has not ever done anything to Chile, or any other Latin American country.

The only way to think Chinese occupation would be worse is if you imagine a situation where China does worse than this. Has China ever done this?

If so, then we would need to look at the socio-economic conditions that led to US threats against other countries and those that led to Chinese threats against other countries and see which apply.


Pants,

For @wat0n that is all ancient history. The USA is a benevolent force. Janine Anez in Bolivia was a nice woman who just ordered some mass murders but she is pro USA and therefore a woman representing democracy. Got to kill off the dictators who are voted in by Indians....radical indios who want someone that looks like them and speaks Aymara to be in Palacio Nacional.

Chile is not better than the USA. What is happening in Wat0n's brain eh? It is videogames. Grand Theft Auto. Videos of winner takes all and the USA is a global superpower....and Chile is not. This must mean that the USA does human society and power relationships right. And Chile is not as good. Does this mean?
Horror and I GASP.....Chile is poorer than the average income of the top 1% of the USA moneymaking folks...and gasp horror.....Chile is inferior. So are you Pants, you inferior Chilean Canadian living in ancient Jurassic times. :lol: :D

Hell, it means he wants to be part of the 'in' crowd and make money and be successful. Not be part of the loser crowd in the Third World.

He is not a man that is telling the truth....all that shit happened in the Jurassic period in Chile. 1973 is the Jurassic. So is 1989 with Noriega in Panama, and the other day there in Venezuela, and hell, the USA sure did interfere everywhere making sure the democracy in the elections don't come out favoring the poor and the Indians....just make sure they favor rich, capitalist assholes in charge of bombing the world out of existence. The SUPERIOR FOLKS.

I will tell you what is superior in Tainari's world folks.

Violeta Parra's songs,

Victor Jara's bravery and ethics,

and Chile's long democratic traditions until the USA decided to derail it because MONEY is their God and not democracy.

Superior folks. Superior nation. Clearly better. At being killers. Not quite Pinochet was their killer and he straightened out dissent. But he lost...because Bachelet became the president...even though she was tortured and her father was killed and murdered and she and her mother detained. Somehow the Americans did not win that battle. Chile still wanted to be free. Despite all that horror they endured.

I find that heroic. I think the Chilean people won the morality and ethics wars.

QUE VIVA CHILE DEMOCRATICA MI GENTE!

Y pa bajo con los yanquis postizos. :lol:
#15164494
Pants-of-dog wrote:In regards to our home, or any other country in Latin America, you have tomrefer to your imagination when it comes to Chinese rule.



Yes, I am familiar with the propaganda around Cuba.

And like Chinese involvement in Latin America, your Soviet involvement in Latin America leading to all these human rights abuses is also based on your imagination.

Facts trump imagination.


I tell you Grand Theft Auto videogames of political history the man has in his brain Pants.

The Americans are BETTER. He believes it.

He has a gig for bucks maybe...it is affecting his loyalties. I tell you the Mexicans are convinced over here about the Yankees got it all going on.....

Lol. A Mexico City saleswoman here drove me around. Yesterday. She is pro-capitalism and conservative. But she is thinking about going to Havana for a COVID shot. because the Cubans got a COVID vaccine for free for any tourist going there to stimulate the Mexican folks on the fence about dropping some dough in Havana.

I asked her, "Do you think that vaccine is effective?" She said, "Sure, the Cubans got a reputation here with the medical tourism from Mexico. It is good. They are good at a lot of stuff. And that is a good alternative. If the Mexican government doesn't hurry with the vaccinations I am heading to Havana." And I asked her "What are you going to do there? Aren't you against the government?" She smiled and said, "I like Cubans and they cured me of various diseases I had in my twenties for very little or no charge. In Mexico and in Havana. The USA is too expensive."

She is pro capitalism but is not brainwashed. A great thing. ;) :D
#15164497
Tainari88 wrote:Pants,

For @wat0n that is all ancient history. The USA is a benevolent force. Janine Anez in Bolivia was a nice woman who just ordered some mass murders but she is pro USA and therefore a woman representing democracy. Got to kill off the dictators who are voted in by Indians....radical indios who want someone that looks like them and speaks Aymara to be in Palacio Nacional.


Please quote me on supporting Añez.

Tainari88 wrote:Chile is not better than the USA. What is happening in Wat0n's brain eh? It is videogames. Grand Theft Auto. Videos of winner takes all and the USA is a global superpower....and Chile is not. This must mean that the USA does human society and power relationships right. And Chile is not as good. Does this mean?
Horror and I GASP.....Chile is poorer than the average income of the top 1% of the USA moneymaking folks...and gasp horror.....Chile is inferior. So are you Pants, you inferior Chilean Canadian living in ancient Jurassic times. :lol: :D


Chile is poorer than the median income of the USA. This isn't even a contest :lol:

And it's also more unequal.

Tainari88 wrote:Hell, it means he wants to be part of the 'in' crowd and make money and be successful. Not be part of the loser crowd in the Third World.

He is not a man that is telling the truth....all that shit happened in the Jurassic period in Chile. 1973 is the Jurassic.


It stopped happening in 1990. Chile is a democracy right now.

Tainari88 wrote:So is 1989 with Noriega in Panama,


Are you supporting a drug-dealing dictator who routinely disappeared his political opponents now? Or Noriega was only bad while he got along with the US? But that stopped being the case before 1989.

Tainari88 wrote:and the other day there in Venezuela,


Why would you include the forced disappearances and extrajudicial executions allegedly carried out by Venezuela's government under the American bodycount if not because you want to make a very insane claim driven by your ridiculous anti-Americanism?

Tainari88 wrote:and hell, the USA sure did interfere everywhere making sure the democracy in the elections don't come out favoring the poor and the Indians....just make sure they favor rich, capitalist assholes in charge of bombing the world out of existence. The SUPERIOR FOLKS.


You mean like during the Alliance for Progress and its clauses that would make enacting land and social reforms a condition for Latin American governments to get funds?

I also find it hilarious that you associate having a government with an Indigenous head ("Indian" is seen as offensive now in Latin America) with all the good things you claim. You are the sort of indigenista who would rather have the money her family's paid to the government as taxes stolen by a corrupt Indigenous President over having a clean non-Indigenous one, even if the latter wasn't a leftist.

Tainari88 wrote:I will tell you what is superior in Tainari's world folks.

Violeta Parra's songs,

Victor Jara's bravery and ethics,

and Chile's long democratic traditions until the USA decided to derail it because MONEY is their God and not democracy.

Superior folks. Superior nation. Clearly better. At being killers. Not quite Pinochet was their killer and he straightened out dissent. But he lost...because Bachelet became the president...even though she was tortured and her father was killed and murdered and she and her mother detained. Somehow the Americans did not win that battle. Chile still wanted to be free. Despite all that horror they endured.

I find that heroic. I think the Chilean people won the morality and ethics wars.

QUE VIVA CHILE DEMOCRATICA MI GENTE!

Y pa bajo con los yanquis postizos. :lol:


And the Cuban regime you and @Pants-of-dog support has yet to fall, despite its record of mass torture and executions. Where is your concern about the horror unconnected Cubans have had to endure, perpetrated by your allies? Or maybe since they have a lot of bravery, oppose the US and were supported by the likes of Victor Jara despite the fact that the accusations of massive human rights violations against the Cuban government were known at the time, you don't care?

And also those long democratic traditions both Chile and the US have are exactly what you have been speaking against lately in this thread. Which makes your post even more hilariously hypocritical and incoherent than usual :lol:
#15164538
wat0n wrote:Or you can just ask testimony from people who live under their rule. Again, we have posters who do.

Even @Fasces will not be willing to claim that dissenting from the positions of the Chinese State will not lead you to anything else but disaster. He has also acknowledged that China is fairly oppressive against those who don't toe to the line culturally, even if it's something that can be explained by its recent history. He's free to correct me if I'm wrong.


No. You should read what I wrote more carefully.

In terms of Latin America, which was the region to which I was specifically referring, I do not have to ask anyone. I already know the complete lack of threat that China has had in Latin America.

If you want to discuss Chinese threats to Latin America, then yes, your imagination is required.

Also, as I mentioned earlier, the sort of US-backed regimes you are referring to have been gone for a while now...


No. They are simply gone in Latin America, and that is because the USA now focuses on oil. This explains why it is only really involved in Venezuela at this point.

The US still supports the Saudis and other oppressive MENA monarchs now.

...While some of the regimes that were initially propped up by the USSR in the region are still alive and kicking, and others try to emulate them (but they are fairly shitty copies of the original at best, using these claims as means to just engage in corruption at worst).

Another thing I find ironic is that you prefer to call the allegations against Cuba propaganda. I recall the Southern Cone dictatorships would do the same at the time, and do would their supporters.

Of course, if you wish to believe some of the allegations against Cuba are propaganda then you couldn't blame those who believed the same about the allegations against Pinochet and similar other dictators at the time. But investigations carried out after the end of those dictatorships (but never during those dictatorships) managed to uncover both testimony and material evidence of at least some of the allegations, just as investigations carried after military conflicts help us have more reliable and better estimates of their human toll. One day, the same will happen in Cuba - in the meantime, using the same standards of proof used before 1990 when talking about the human rights situation in the Southern Cone, the only option is to take the allegations by Cuban exiles seriously just as those by Chilean exiles were from 1973 to 1990. It would only be fair to do so. You can start by listening to some who post here, why don't you let them comment on the human rights situation in Cuba?


This is all irrelevant and vague. Unless you think Cuba is a threat to any poster here.

You do not seem to disagree that for most Latin Americans (leftist or otherwise), the US has presented and still presents a far greater threat than China or the late USSR did or does. So you bring up these other tangents.
#15164543
Pants-of-dog wrote:No. You should read what I wrote more carefully.

In terms of Latin America, which was the region to which I was specifically referring, I do not have to ask anyone. I already know the complete lack of threat that China has had in Latin America.

If you want to discuss Chinese threats to Latin America, then yes, your imagination is required.


Yes, I know that you don't care about anything other than Latin America. In reality, however, a global outlook is both necessary and justified, particularly since the vast majority of the world's population is not Latin American and also doesn't live in Latin America - and because we live in a globalized world, where events outside Latin America can affect it heavily. You know, like pandemics.

Pants-of-dog wrote:No. They are simply gone in Latin America, and that is because the USA now focuses on oil. This explains why it is only really involved in Venezuela at this point.

The US still supports the Saudis and other oppressive MENA monarchs now.


Interesting, so the US is only a threat to Venezuela? Then, please tell me, what's your explanation for the human rights violations allegedly perpetrated by the Cuban and Nicaraguan governments towards their own population?

Note that the allegations that come from exiles, local human rights groups and international human rights groups that used to criticize the US-backed military dictatorships when they were a thing. Since I'm assuming you'd have taken these sources seriously when they were speaking of human rights violations committed by US-backed dictatorships, I see no reason for you to somehow refuse to take them seriously when they refer to dictatorships that don't get along with the US.

Pants-of-dog wrote:This is all irrelevant and vague. Unless you think Cuba is a threat to any poster here.

You do not seem to disagree that for most Latin Americans (leftist or otherwise), the US has presented and still presents a far greater threat than China or the late USSR did or does. So you bring up these other tangents.


No, actually you went off a tangent. @Tainari88 was comparing the Chinese political system to the American one, and I said I'd pick the latter any day. You went off that tangent by mixing an argument from emotion and a non-sequitur, and I kindly reminded both of you that the alternative to the US at a time, the USSR, was willing to support regimes that would behave similarly to US-backed ones when it came to dealing with those living under their rule (and some of which exist, and even have some copycat wannabees or so they claim) - which is also the same type of behavior the Soviets had towards their own population, and not too different from how China deals with its own. Your response has thus far been deny, deflect and resort to anachronisms by pretending the US-backed military dictatorships are still in place despite having disappeared 30+ years ago.
#15164544
@wat0n wrote:
Chile is poorer than the median income of the USA. This isn't even a contest :lol:

And it's also more unequal.


The USA is in the top 10. The USA is gonna be competing with the Mexicans very soon. Lol

You want to know how unequal...they are.

Dark Money. Your heroes. Not mine. I am going for ethical politics. Not crap.

I don't admire a nation that does all that the videos talk about.

I think with a good plan? One can cut away and work hard and lower that inequality problem by a lot.

Most people are not realistic about the USA's real inequality problem. Too busy blaming Mexico, Chile, India and so on....it has to stop with the blame game. The inequality is about too many people working and not keeping the surplus of their own labor and not having workplace economic democracy. It is that issue. Economics are interesting to study.
The USA is not winning the equality wars @wat0n
Inequality of economic realities.

#15164546
Tainari88 wrote:@wat0n wrote:


The USA is in the top 10. The USA is gonna be competing with the Mexicans very soon. Lol

You want to know how unequal...they are.

Dark Money. Your heroes. Not mine. I am going for ethical politics. Not crap.

I don't admire a nation that does all that the videos talk about.

I think with a good plan? One can cut away and work hard and lower that inequality problem by a lot.

Most people are not realistic about the USA's real inequality problem. Too busy blaming Mexico, Chile, India and so on....it has to stop with the blame game. The inequality is about too many people working and not keeping the surplus of their own labor and not having workplace economic democracy. It is that issue. Economics are interesting to study.
The USA is not winning the equality wars @wat0n
Inequality of economic realities.



Indeed, inequality in the US is trending up. But it's not in the top 10, you can check it here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c ... e_equality

And well, despite everything it's still more egalitarian than Chile. Yes, it's likely the US could do better - I never claimed it's perfect. And I accept that, I don't demand perfection. I wish I could get it, but that does not exist.

I just settle for something better, and the US is clearly better. This is something I can easily tell - whether by looking at the data or just living here - is the case.

What I don't understand, then, is why would you want to deny this. Like it or not, the US is more egalitarian than most Latin American countries. And when it comes to income inequality, it also works more than most to redistribute. And living standards are also better, despite the crazy healthcare system and other issues.
#15164548
@wat0n I voted for the USA is more of an issue to my personal way of life here...as Pants has pointed out? I am in Mexico. So in Mexico is the PRC planning to call up Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador and crank up the tanks and so on and start shooting Mexicans on site and locking up Mexicans in some for profit detention centers or not? Where is the Chino threat for Mexicans, Puerto Ricans and other Latinos on this side of the world? Show me the threat?

Cherry or Kandi electric car threats maybe?

I think Pants is right. You interpret things with totally unsubstantiated distorted thoughts.

Is this the chino o chinita threat from Puerto Rico or Mexico? Or are the chinos just learning Spanish and blending in eh?



The image for Mexico in China, the USA and many other nations are about poverty, guns and violence and drugs. Are Mexicans all drug dealers and gun toting violent poor people? No. It is a total distortion. But that is what happens when the mainstream images and dialogues about Latin America is based on LIES and stereotypes and bad propaganda that says, CRIME, GUNS, Drugs.....

Is Chile about that? No. It is far more complex and most people are hard working, and honest people trying to raise families, and going to work every morning.

What is reality and distortions is reality.

Chinese opinion of Mexicans.

#15164549
All across the American political spectrum, ''Liberal'' and ''Conservative'', I am appalled by the near absolute historical illiteracy of almost everyone I read or hear or even talk to personally. It's scary that these people vote or make political decisions of any kind about anything.

And they not only don't know anything, they almost seem not to want to know or even care. This I have discovered has presented both a near and a long term threat to my PERSONAL way of life.
#15164554
Tainari88 wrote:@wat0n I voted for the USA is more of an issue to my personal way of life here...as Pants has pointed out? I am in Mexico. So in Mexico is the PRC planning to call up Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador and crank up the tanks and so on and start shooting Mexicans on site and locking up Mexicans in some for profit detention centers or not? Where is the Chino threat for Mexicans, Puerto Ricans and other Latinos on this side of the world? Show me the threat?

Cherry or Kandi electric car threats maybe?


Well, firstly, I actually said the US is the greatest long-term threat to my personal way of life. I live here so of course anything its government does is likely to affect me more than most, and I don't see why would anyone answer differently and not mention the country they live in. Seriously, isn't Mexico quite obviously the greatest threat to your personal way of life? Anything AMLO or whoever comes after does can affect you way more than anything the US does.

Besides that, I said I considered both the US and China since they have the means to regulate the internet, worldwide. Since I'm working remotely and can stay in touch with family, girlfriend and friends regularly only through it, anything involving the internet will have a key effect on my personal way of life. If they began to attack each other using e.g. DDoS attacks it could pose a problem for me.

Now, as for China being a long-term threat - maybe it is. Maybe it isn't. That depends a lot on how it develops from now on, what happens with its demographics and how Latin American governments, and many others, react or if they try to emulate it and particularly its political system and repressive apparatus. For instance, what makes you believe stuff like China's social credit system may not be implemented in many other countries (possibly including each and every country in the Americas, which obviously includes Chile, Mexico and the US) as means to control the population and thus avoid political instability in the future? China doesn't even need to put boots on the ground to be able to threaten, indirectly, your personal way of life. Its example may be all it needs.

And as for the US being a long-term threat - again, maybe it is. Or maybe it isn't so much, at least ever since the Cold War ended it has been largely indifferent to Latin America. And during the Cold War its main interest was not so much about business but about containing the Soviets, which we know from the minutes of their meetings on the matter at the time. Whenever they had to decide something, anything, their first thought would be how did it affect the balance of power with the USSR in the region. And it seems there's little the US would do to influence changes in my personal way of life if I still lived in Chile, if only because its ever growing influential indifference and its soft power is largely the status quo. This could of course change, particularly if it begins to face competition from China or some other power like it did with the Soviets, but doesn't seem to be changing as of today.

Tainari88 wrote:I think Pants is right. You interpret things with totally unsubstantiated distorted thoughts.


No, he's not. He tried to throw a wrench to our discussion but it backfired on him, badly.

Tainari88 wrote:Is this the chino o chinita threat from Puerto Rico or Mexico? Or are the chinos just learning Spanish and blending in eh?



The image for Mexico in China, the USA and many other nations are about poverty, guns and violence and drugs. Are Mexicans all drug dealers and gun toting violent poor people? No. It is a total distortion. But that is what happens when the mainstream images and dialogues about Latin America is based on LIES and stereotypes and bad propaganda that says, CRIME, GUNS, Drugs.....

Is Chile about that? No. It is far more complex and most people are hard working, and honest people trying to raise families, and going to work every morning.

What is reality and distortions is reality.

Chinese opinion of Mexicans.



You could say that stereotypes exist for all countries, honestly. No, Mexico is not all about drugs and guns, even if they have a serious problem in that regard. I was in Mexico for the Grito in 2019 (in Guadalajara) and saw a small military deployment in the downtown area with soldiers patrolling around. I've never seen that either in Chile or the US for their own independence day celebrations. Still, Mexicans are fun to hang around with, they certainly know how to party (better than Chileans and Americans) and would love to go back. And there are of course plenty of hardworking Mexicans.

But the same could be said about the US. No, not everyone is racist all the time and everywhere even if racism exists (it also exists in Latin America, even if social class is still the main identity category for discriminating there). No, you don't go to your grocer thinking some nutjob will show up with a gun and kill you and everyone else at the store, even if it happens from time to time. No, most Americans don't even carry their guns with them all the time along with their flag, while riding their SUVs or pickup trucks even if they love all of these. Many aren't even all that nationalistic, but some definitely are (let's not pretend this doesn't happen elsewhere too). Many others are also not as ignorant about the world as many make them be, although many for sure don't care about whatever happens abroad (same goes for Chileans, many of whom are even more indifferent to international events than Americans - but Chile isn't a superpower and it's relatively remote in the big scheme of things so it's understandable). No, Americans are not totally indifferent to poverty or social inequality, even if they care less on average than people from many other countries, and there is a stronger effort for income redistribution than is usually acknowledged. And there are plenty of hardworking Americans, too - I'd even say workaholism is probably better regarded and definitely more tolerated here than in Chile, even if Chileans and Mexicans work longer hours on average (and for lower wages).

And no, ordinary Chinese (and ordinary Chileans, Mexicans and even Americans) do not threaten anyone's personal way of life in the long term. It's clear we're talking about governments here.
#15164581
wat0n wrote:Yes, I know that you don't care about anything other than Latin America. In reality, however, a global outlook is both necessary and justified, particularly since the vast majority of the world's population is not Latin American and also doesn't live in Latin America - and because we live in a globalized world, where events outside Latin America can affect it heavily. You know, like pandemics.

Interesting, so the US is only a threat to Venezuela? Then, please tell me, what's your explanation for the human rights violations allegedly perpetrated by the Cuban and Nicaraguan governments towards their own population?

Note that the allegations that come from exiles, local human rights groups and international human rights groups that used to criticize the US-backed military dictatorships when they were a thing. Since I'm assuming you'd have taken these sources seriously when they were speaking of human rights violations committed by US-backed dictatorships, I see no reason for you to somehow refuse to take them seriously when they refer to dictatorships that don't get along with the US.

No, actually you went off a tangent. @Tainari88 was comparing the Chinese political system to the American one, and I said I'd pick the latter any day. You went off that tangent by mixing an argument from emotion and a non-sequitur, and I kindly reminded both of you that the alternative to the US at a time, the USSR, was willing to support regimes that would behave similarly to US-backed ones when it came to dealing with those living under their rule (and some of which exist, and even have some copycat wannabees or so they claim) - which is also the same type of behavior the Soviets had towards their own population, and not too different from how China deals with its own. Your response has thus far been deny, deflect and resort to anachronisms by pretending the US-backed military dictatorships are still in place despite having disappeared 30+ years ago.


Let me know if you have any evidence of China being a threat to Latin Americans.

You seem to not have refuted any of my points.

Speaking of pandemics, Canada was almost certainly more afflicted than it would otherwise have been by infections from the USA.
#15164583
Pants-of-dog wrote:You seem to not have refuted any of my points.


Anti-american anachronisms are not points in any way, shape or form.

They just demonstrate more about the author's prejudice than anything else.

wat0n wrote:No, actually you went off a tangent. @Tainari88 was comparing the Chinese political system to the American one, and I said I'd pick the latter any day. You went off that tangent by mixing an argument from emotion and a non-sequitur, and I kindly reminded both of you that the alternative to the US at a time, the USSR, was willing to support regimes that would behave similarly to US-backed ones when it came to dealing with those living under their rule (and some of which exist, and even have some copycat wannabees or so they claim) - which is also the same type of behavior the Soviets had towards their own population, and not too different from how China deals with its own. Your response has thus far been deny, deflect and resort to anachronisms by pretending the US-backed military dictatorships are still in place despite having disappeared 30+ years ago.


Well said.

Obvious answer is obvious.

China is the greatest threat to my way of life by a far and wide margin.

The totalitarian dictatorship that it is, represents the worst aspect of human political organisation.

In a world dominated by China, PoFo cannot exist.

The idea that just because the US did something wrong to my nation at some point in history and that I should now support totalitarian Nazi China just to get my 'revenge on the US for previous slights' is beyond ridiculous. I do not feel that way not even for Turkey who is openly threatening my security as we speak.
#15164584
Pants-of-dog wrote:Let me know if you have any evidence of China being a threat to Latin Americans.

You seem to not have refuted any of my points.

Speaking of pandemics, Canada was almost certainly more afflicted than it would otherwise have been by infections from the USA.


How about you explain why wouldn't we regard its current support for the dictatorships currently existing in Latin America as a threat since you are so concerned about US support for the dictatorships of the '60s, '70s and '80s that you claim that's what makes it a threat? Will you believe the exiles from those regimes in their allegations against them like you fought do hard to get people to believe you when denouncing Pinochet's regime for the same kind of acts?

PS: It seems the first recorded COVID case in Canada was from someone who had been in Wuhan. But I was referring to the interconnectedness of our time more than an attempt to blame China for it - although if you believe the prevailing theories regarding the origin of SARS-CoV2 then you will need to admit we have to hope the Chinese have changed their regulatory approach to wet markets.
#15164591
wat0n wrote:How about you explain why wouldn't we regard its current support for the dictatorships currently existing in Latin America as a threat since you are so concerned about US support for the dictatorships of the '60s, '70s and '80s that you claim that's what makes it a threat?


Again, thanks for looking for evidence that China is supporting dictatorships or whatever your claim is!

Will you believe the exiles from those regimes in their allegations against them like you fought do hard to get people to believe you when denouncing Pinochet's regime for the same kind of acts?


My behaviour is irrelevant.

PS: It seems the first recorded COVID case in Canada was from someone who had been in Wuhan. But I was referring to the interconnectedness of our time more than an attempt to blame China for it - although if you believe the prevailing theories regarding the origin of SARS-CoV2 then you will need to admit we have to hope the Chinese have changed their regulatory approach to wet markets.


I never talked about the first case. Please argue against my actual claims.

As for the wet market argument: yes, if we imagine that this is the cause, then we can argue that China is a bigger problem for most of us. But agin, we are relying on something for which we have no evidence,
#15164594
Pants-of-dog wrote:Again, thanks for looking for evidence that China is supporting dictatorships or whatever your claim is!


It's well known that China supports Venezuela (particularly economically). Are you trying to claim Venezuela is not a dictatorship?

Pants-of-dog wrote:My behaviour is irrelevant.


Weird, I would believe you'd prefer not to appear to be applying double standards when it comes to human rights. After all, you have no qualms in warning other users that they appear to be racist.

Pants-of-dog wrote:I never talked about the first case. Please argue against my actual claims.


I just showed that your claim can easily apply to China. Or pretty much any other country, since we live in a global world.

Pants-of-dog wrote:As for the wet market argument: yes, if we imagine that this is the cause, then we can argue that China is a bigger problem for most of us. But agin, we are relying on something for which we have no evidence,


It seems to be among the leading theories among scientists. Don't you trust science? Or you do only when it suits you?
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